1929 LC Smith Coachgun/ what loads can it digest?

swissfist · June 2, 2015, 07:16 PM

Hey fellas/gals, just acquired an LC Smith 12 gauge coachgun, tight lockup, bore a bit black powder fouled but otherwise looks in good shape. It is of 1929 manufacture and does not have Damascus barrels. My question; what ammo would be safe to use in this piece. The staff at the shop weren't much help and their Smithy was off that day. Benefit of the communitys' experience would be most appreciated.

Doyle · June 2, 2015, 08:16 PM

First thing to do is make sure it has 2 3/4" chambers. There were lots of 2 1/2 and 2 5/8" chambered shotguns in the days prior to WWII. Even though a 2 3/4" shell would physically fit in a 2 5/8" chamber, there is not enough room left over for the shell to open completely - resulting in higher pressure than normal. If you have a 3" shell laying around, see if it will drop in cleanly (don't fire it). If it does, then you can expect a 2 3/4" shell will open. If it doesn't then have a gunsmith measure the chamber.

RJay · June 2, 2015, 08:27 PM

If it is truly a 1929 manufactured firearm, then any proper modern shotgun shells can be used, no steel shot and no magnum loads. Shame to find a L C cut down like that.

Dixie Gunsmithing · June 2, 2015, 08:59 PM

It makes one cringe to know that they ruined a set of matching serial barrels by sawing them.

I have seen barrels sold on eBay, armor steel, but I didn't watch what they sold for. You may have to do a little hand fitting on the lump, but another set would fit. The only problem, is the serial numbers not matching. That is, if you ever wanted to bring it back to its original state.

You can shoot smokeless game loads, etc, in them, just stay away from Damascus barrels.

I wanted to add, that if they are solid steel barrels, it will say armor steel, on the bottom of the barrels, and I have seen it stamped on the water table of the frame, close to the serial. Also, if your gun has a FW in front of the serial, that means feather weight. You can run the serial on the LC Smith collectors website below.

http://www.lcsmith.org/

swissfist · June 2, 2015, 10:42 PM

Thanks for info, everyone. And Rjay, I donT believe this is a cut down, I'll check to be positive, but I believe it was manufactured as a Coachgun, not a cut down. I post pics when I bring it home.thanks again.

Jim Watson · June 3, 2015, 12:30 AM

Agree with Ron. 1929 is pretty modern, as double shotguns go. Any 2 3/4" lead shot shell will be ok.

A factory "coach gun" would be a good catch, collector wise.
Even if sawn, it would be a nicer CAS gun than the majority of cheap imports.

swissfist · June 3, 2015, 06:36 AM

And what about slugs? Would that create too much pressure for it to handle? The reason I ask is that unfortunately I dont have the option of the great outdoors nearby ( my environment is urban) so I am speaking of what the local indoor ranges will allow.

Jim Watson · June 3, 2015, 09:24 AM

All 12 gauge shotshells have the same SAAMI maximum chamber pressure limit of 11,500 psi. Skeet loads, express loads, buckshot, slugs, short magnums, 3" magnums all have the same maximum spec. (Except the 3 1/2".) So if you stick to 2 3/4" shells, there is no more risk of blowing up a steel barrel with the big loads than the little ones.

Will the greater recoil of the heavy loads shake an old gun loose sooner? Probably.

If I wanted to shoot slugs in that gun, I would pick the "tactical" slugs at the same velocity as a skeet load. It would not batter the shooter or the gun any more than birdshot.
It probably won't be a very satisfying experience. One reason double express safari rifles cost so much is the labor required to "regulate" the barrels to shoot to the same point of aim. Few if any shotguns are regulated, routine assembly will have shot patterns overlapping. So there is not much chance they will shoot slugs to the same point of aim. Or to any point of aim, a slug does not necessarily shoot to the center of the shot pattern.

swissfist · June 3, 2015, 12:41 PM

Thanks jim. I plan on having the Smithy I use to give it a once over just so I can be aware of exactly what I can and cant do with it.

T. O'Heir · June 3, 2015, 02:38 PM

Not likely BP fouling at that time either. Measure the diameter of the muzzles. That'll tell you if there's a choke. No choke means it was likely cut.
Shortest L.C. Smith barrels, of that vintage, is 26".
L.C. Smith collectors are a very serious bunch. Everything on that collector site works and is complete. Impressive.

Dixie Gunsmithing · June 3, 2015, 03:03 PM

The L C Smiths locking system was probably one of the best in the world, and I'd venture to say, your gun is still tight. The locking system is a rotating drum, with a tapered bolt, that bites into a lug between the barrels, which has a tapered hole in it. Even if the system is showing wear, where the locking lever would be close to center, the barrels should still be tight. The lever on one that is not worn, will stop at the right hand side, and wont reach center. If the lever is getting toward center, that can be easily fixed, by adding a spot of weld, by TIG, in the barrel lugs hole, and filing it until it closes and fits properly. I've done about three of these over 22 years.

Anyhow, 2-3/4" loads wont hurt that system, making the barrels loosen up. The only gun close to being as good, is the Greener system, that uses a sliding round tapered pin, into the barrel lug.

RJay · June 3, 2015, 06:02 PM

All I have to add, if it is indeed a factory " coach gun " then it is a very rare undocumented shotgun. Take care of it because you will never see another.

June 2, 2015, 07:16 PM	#1
swissfist Member Join Date: November 6, 2014 Posts: 48	1929 LC Smith Coachgun/ what loads can it digest? Hey fellas/gals, just acquired an LC Smith 12 gauge coachgun, tight lockup, bore a bit black powder fouled but otherwise looks in good shape. It is of 1929 manufacture and does not have Damascus barrels. My question; what ammo would be safe to use in this piece. The staff at the shop weren't much help and their Smithy was off that day. Benefit of the communitys' experience would be most appreciated.

June 2, 2015, 08:27 PM	#3
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	If it is truly a 1929 manufactured firearm, then any proper modern shotgun shells can be used, no steel shot and no magnum loads. Shame to find a L C cut down like that. __________________ Ron James

June 2, 2015, 08:59 PM	#4
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	It makes one cringe to know that they ruined a set of matching serial barrels by sawing them. I have seen barrels sold on eBay, armor steel, but I didn't watch what they sold for. You may have to do a little hand fitting on the lump, but another set would fit. The only problem, is the serial numbers not matching. That is, if you ever wanted to bring it back to its original state. You can shoot smokeless game loads, etc, in them, just stay away from Damascus barrels. I wanted to add, that if they are solid steel barrels, it will say armor steel, on the bottom of the barrels, and I have seen it stamped on the water table of the frame, close to the serial. Also, if your gun has a FW in front of the serial, that means feather weight. You can run the serial on the LC Smith collectors website below. http://www.lcsmith.org/ Last edited by Dixie Gunsmithing; June 2, 2015 at 09:18 PM.

June 3, 2015, 02:38 PM	#10
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Not likely BP fouling at that time either. Measure the diameter of the muzzles. That'll tell you if there's a choke. No choke means it was likely cut. Shortest L.C. Smith barrels, of that vintage, is 26". L.C. Smith collectors are a very serious bunch. Everything on that collector site works and is complete. Impressive. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

June 3, 2015, 06:02 PM	#12
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	All I have to add, if it is indeed a factory " coach gun " then it is a very rare undocumented shotgun. Take care of it because you will never see another. __________________ Ron James

June 2, 2015, 08:16 PM	#2
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	First thing to do is make sure it has 2 3/4" chambers. There were lots of 2 1/2 and 2 5/8" chambered shotguns in the days prior to WWII. Even though a 2 3/4" shell would physically fit in a 2 5/8" chamber, there is not enough room left over for the shell to open completely - resulting in higher pressure than normal. If you have a 3" shell laying around, see if it will drop in cleanly (don't fire it). If it does, then you can expect a 2 3/4" shell will open. If it doesn't then have a gunsmith measure the chamber.

June 2, 2015, 10:42 PM	#5
swissfist Member Join Date: November 6, 2014 Posts: 48	Thanks for info, everyone. And Rjay, I donT believe this is a cut down, I'll check to be positive, but I believe it was manufactured as a Coachgun, not a cut down. I post pics when I bring it home.thanks again.

June 3, 2015, 12:30 AM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Agree with Ron. 1929 is pretty modern, as double shotguns go. Any 2 3/4" lead shot shell will be ok. A factory "coach gun" would be a good catch, collector wise. Even if sawn, it would be a nicer CAS gun than the majority of cheap imports.

June 3, 2015, 06:36 AM	#7
swissfist Member Join Date: November 6, 2014 Posts: 48	And what about slugs? Would that create too much pressure for it to handle? The reason I ask is that unfortunately I dont have the option of the great outdoors nearby ( my environment is urban) so I am speaking of what the local indoor ranges will allow.

June 3, 2015, 09:24 AM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	All 12 gauge shotshells have the same SAAMI maximum chamber pressure limit of 11,500 psi. Skeet loads, express loads, buckshot, slugs, short magnums, 3" magnums all have the same maximum spec. (Except the 3 1/2".) So if you stick to 2 3/4" shells, there is no more risk of blowing up a steel barrel with the big loads than the little ones. Will the greater recoil of the heavy loads shake an old gun loose sooner? Probably. If I wanted to shoot slugs in that gun, I would pick the "tactical" slugs at the same velocity as a skeet load. It would not batter the shooter or the gun any more than birdshot. It probably won't be a very satisfying experience. One reason double express safari rifles cost so much is the labor required to "regulate" the barrels to shoot to the same point of aim. Few if any shotguns are regulated, routine assembly will have shot patterns overlapping. So there is not much chance they will shoot slugs to the same point of aim. Or to any point of aim, a slug does not necessarily shoot to the center of the shot pattern.

June 3, 2015, 12:41 PM	#9
swissfist Member Join Date: November 6, 2014 Posts: 48	Thanks jim. I plan on having the Smithy I use to give it a once over just so I can be aware of exactly what I can and cant do with it.

June 3, 2015, 03:03 PM	#11
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	The L C Smiths locking system was probably one of the best in the world, and I'd venture to say, your gun is still tight. The locking system is a rotating drum, with a tapered bolt, that bites into a lug between the barrels, which has a tapered hole in it. Even if the system is showing wear, where the locking lever would be close to center, the barrels should still be tight. The lever on one that is not worn, will stop at the right hand side, and wont reach center. If the lever is getting toward center, that can be easily fixed, by adding a spot of weld, by TIG, in the barrel lugs hole, and filing it until it closes and fits properly. I've done about three of these over 22 years. Anyhow, 2-3/4" loads wont hurt that system, making the barrels loosen up. The only gun close to being as good, is the Greener system, that uses a sliding round tapered pin, into the barrel lug.