|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
April 26, 2010, 10:54 PM | #26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 27, 2008
Location: Washington, Pa
Posts: 764
|
Our department has 6 Remington 870's. All the other local police departments that surround us also have 870's. I've never heard of any of the ones we have failing in any way. Granted, they are not shot every day, but each has thousands of rounds thru them from years on the qualification range as well as when they're shot for practice. The ones we have are pretty reliable. They are cleaned and taken care of like newborn babes! I used to read nothing but good things about the 870, but it seems that more & more threads like this and word of mouth is saying that reliability is not what it once was.
That being said, I could never figure out why more departments didn't go with Benelli, which, in my opinion, is the best shotgun for combat. Mossburg would be my 2nd choice, followed by Remington.
__________________
2 Thes 3:16 "Now may the Lord of peace Himself continually grant you peace in every circumstance. The Lord be with you all! " |
April 26, 2010, 11:41 PM | #27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 15, 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,531
|
Police departments normally use the 870 Police (not the express). The 870 Police is a very fine pump shotgun indeed. Reason? Excellent quality control. The express models just aren't what they used to be...and it's a shame because the 870 is so iconic for Reminton.
__________________
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak. |
April 27, 2010, 12:27 AM | #28 | ||
Junior member
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 14,172
|
Quote:
Quote:
WildbesidesknowinghowtouseoneAlaska TM |
||
April 27, 2010, 12:28 AM | #29 | |
Junior member
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 14,172
|
Quote:
Simply becasue Benelli pumps are not as ergo friendly as the 870. Wildyoushouldseethe870sweseeuphereAlaska TM |
|
April 27, 2010, 12:48 AM | #30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 6, 2008
Posts: 1,777
|
It's not just the express models that show signs of poor QC... I bought two brand new wingmasters that did not work... Even after sent being sent back to Remington, functioning was still not 100%... After working on them my self and getting some advice from a gunsmith they now run as an 870 should... For what a wingmaster costs, they should work out of the box...
|
April 27, 2010, 02:16 AM | #31 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 18, 2004
Posts: 1,446
|
I am getting a headache from all the people who have no clue, but seem to think that youtube is one hundred percent believable. and that all gun makers are out to rip off the buyers.
For crying out loud, did you pull the barrel and drop a shell in the chamber, did it slide out or hang up. If it hangs up, its the chamber, if it slides right out its the extractor or the bolt. Trouble shooting used to be something Dad's taught their son's, Now, I am not that sure. keep breaking down the problem or issue until you find something where it works one way or it doesn't, then figure out what is causing that. Did you take the gun down and clean and oil all the parts before you went to the range. Did you put it back together again correctly? The internals of the 870 are pretty darned elegant. there is not a lot of extra stuff in there. |
April 27, 2010, 03:30 AM | #32 |
Staff In Memoriam
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,811
|
Yeah, I kinda wonder what has happened to us. I'm certainly no smith, but I can troubleshoot most of my arms.
Mathman, I'm no whiz at your field of expertise, but if I try 20 Expresses with a 10% dud rate, 2 of them should have glitched. None did. Maybe I just have, after 50 years, good 870 Karma. Or maybe I'm just really, really, lucky. This BB needs sarcastic and skeptical smilies..... |
April 27, 2010, 06:33 AM | #33 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 11, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,198
|
Fwiw- I saw two brand new Express 870's fail. One went back to Remington and still fails. One was sold at a gunshow. They were both cleaned and properly assembled.
__________________
"An angry prophet, denouncing the hypocrisies of our time" |
April 27, 2010, 07:49 AM | #34 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 10, 2004
Location: Plain Ol', TX
Posts: 713
|
I have owned four (4) Express 12ga 870s, and all had intermittant issues extracting Winchester bulk pack field ammo, a few had issues extracting any form of Federal bulk pack field ammo, and none had issues with any brand of premium ammo or the Remington bulk pack ammo. Folk that handload or run STS/AA shotshells thru their Expresses will likely never see an issue.
I can tell you without fear of contradiction, because I have the gauge to measure it, that Winchester and Federal bulk pack/promo 12ga shotshell bases are oversized from the factory. THEY ARE OUT OF SPEC. Everyone should also note that the bulk pack and cheap field ammo are also steel-base hulls and not brass base (no matter the color of the base - the brass looking ones are simply brass plated steel). The steel bases tend to need oversized chambers whereas the (proper?) brass base hulls do not. Could Remington make their chamber a wee bit bigger, like Mossy, to make it run the cheap crap ammo more reliably? Sure. Do I know why Remington doesn't simply address this during manufacturing? I don't have any idea, dood.. But I would wager a guess that they would state that they provide in-spec chambers... Quote:
If you don't want to fix it yourself, just send it back to Remington and tell them to fix it.
__________________
-A conclusion is not a destination, it's simply a convenient place to stop thinking.- -Reading a thing doesn't automatically make it so; repeating it doesn't necessarily make it any truer.- -Every Texan should be a member of the Texas State Rifle Association. Last edited by rbernie; April 27, 2010 at 09:29 AM. |
|
April 27, 2010, 09:15 AM | #35 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: January 15, 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,531
|
Quote:
Quote:
The fact is that it seems many folks are having some trouble with expresses.
__________________
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak. |
||
April 27, 2010, 10:37 AM | #36 |
Member
Join Date: April 10, 2010
Location: lapine oregon
Posts: 66
|
The basic fact is remington has been having quality control issues for several years. A long term fault in their buisness model done by the penny pinchers. The fix's to most new remington guns are easy and are being done by the new owners. Ammo choice is some of the issue, but older 870's and most new guns will shoot this cheap ammo all day without a issue. I still have several Remingtons in the safe and that is not going to change. I have been thinking about adding a new 750 carbine 35 whelan
__________________
10ga shooters anonymous member in good standing. reloader of steelshot goose loads for modern shotguns |
April 27, 2010, 12:38 PM | #37 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 6, 2008
Posts: 1,777
|
guntotin fool,
Don't know if you're talking to me or not... But these two wingmasters are the 4th and 5th 870 I've owned... I think I have a clue on how they work ... The action would stick about halfway open after firing a round.. And was not short shucking it... The chambers were beautiful in each of these guns... It was not ammo or me, it was a number of various internal issues with the action that was causing it to stick... Yes I cleaned and oiled them before firing and I know it was put back together correctly... I am a very capable trouble shooter... After taking the guns apart, it took me a while to figure out what was going on... Being new guns, I felt that before I did anything that required me to file anything or polish parts, I better send it back... I did and what I got back still did not function 100%... Last edited by .300 Weatherby Mag; April 27, 2010 at 12:44 PM. |
April 27, 2010, 05:06 PM | #38 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 12, 2005
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 7,486
|
Quote:
Note: Just to be clear, I am only making a general comment about the quality (or lack thereof) of firearm manufacturing and marketing principles. I have no direct knowledge of the alleged deficiencies of the Remington Model 870.
__________________
ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED ...Aristotle NRA Benefactor Life Member Last edited by dgludwig; April 27, 2010 at 05:13 PM. |
|
April 27, 2010, 05:46 PM | #39 |
Member
Join Date: December 1, 2009
Posts: 31
|
Like I have said in other threads, I have an 870 express I bought late last year and have not had a single issue with it. Like many other things in life you never hear the positive experiences. I can imagine if everybody that has 870 exp's and had NO issues we would have to open a new server. Before I bought my 870 I read all the threads RECOMMENDING I purchase the 870 over the 500. So I have to wonder how many of the people telling me about the better quaility and overall value of the 870 are the same people bashing it now. Also, would be nice to know exactly what ammo/brand person was using when their gun failed.
|
April 27, 2010, 06:12 PM | #40 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 12, 2005
Location: North central Ohio
Posts: 7,486
|
Well, namlot1979, just because you (and probably most others) have not experienced a problem with the 870 shotgun is not to say that others haven't. I have no reason to suspect that people who report experiencing problems with their 870s are making things up. Until you have purchased a brand new gun; have cleaned and lubricated it before taking it to the range, only to find that it doesn't work properly, can you commiserate with those that have.
And, yes, you always have the option of returning the gun to the manufacturer for warranty repair and that's good. But it's not the kind of thing anyone really wants to resort to. Guns that fail to work properly out of the box will always leave a bad taste in my mouth toward the manufacturer.
__________________
ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED ...Aristotle NRA Benefactor Life Member |
April 27, 2010, 06:53 PM | #41 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 15, 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,531
|
Quote:
__________________
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak. |
|
April 27, 2010, 08:38 PM | #42 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 18, 2009
Location: mountains of colorado
Posts: 977
|
I have never been much of a fan of Reminton guns made after WWII, however I have to admit the 870 USED to be a good product. According to all I have read this is quickly becoming a thing of the past. In our trapclub a member has an 870 express and he also has to pound the buttstock on the ground to get it to eject. This is a situation running rampant in the gun industry in the last decade or so. Seems the internet forums abound with customers sending guns back for warrenty. No manufactor seems to be exempt. This is not only a gun industry problem. So I ask everyone here, did you do give 110% in YOUR job today?
|
April 27, 2010, 11:10 PM | #43 | |
Junior member
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
|
Quote:
Middle-grade guns are getting fewer and fewer it seems. Soon you will have a choice of junk that needs fixing and those high-grade guns that many here cannot afford. The consumer CAN institute change with the manufacturers, but you cannot expect top-dollar work for bottom-dollar pricing, especially from US makers |
|
April 27, 2010, 11:33 PM | #44 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 15, 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,531
|
Quote:
1. Call Remington's customer service and voice your displeasure. and, more importantly... 2. Don't buy it...and encourage others to not buy it until they improve their quality. In other words, vote with your dollars!!
__________________
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak. |
|
April 27, 2010, 11:36 PM | #45 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 23, 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,442
|
rbernie's reply #34
+1 |
April 27, 2010, 11:41 PM | #46 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 15, 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,531
|
I completely agree with #34 as well, but it doesn't take away from the frustration that people feel when they buy a gun that doesn't work smoothly. Just sayin'!!
__________________
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak. |
April 27, 2010, 11:44 PM | #47 |
Junior member
Join Date: March 25, 2010
Posts: 169
|
While I agree this is Remingtons fault and they should fix the issues. Like you said they can see a ton of complaints online. However, the consumer also see's these complaints and yet they continue to keep purchasing the Remingtons then they complain. If it was 5 years ago when people were just seeing this problem that's one thing. By now it's a well established issue and I think if the customer purchases one they are partially to blame also as they should have been well aware of what they were getting into. I don't get why people continue to purchase Remingtons. They aren't going to care as long as their sales don't slow down.
|
April 27, 2010, 11:54 PM | #48 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 12, 2002
Location: MO
Posts: 5,457
|
Just as an FYI. Bold type is mine.-
Quote:
__________________
People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice. |
|
April 27, 2010, 11:57 PM | #49 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 15, 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,531
|
Quote:
I'm a Benelli man now...YMMV.
__________________
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak. |
|
April 28, 2010, 12:07 AM | #50 | |
Junior member
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|