Closing L&P....

[Creature]

The issue I am pointing out is that you think that your opinion about what is propaganda and bullying is not what many other members think. In fact, your smarmy comments here, and elsewhere, are perfect examples of both. You took a self-imposed sabbatical from L&P before. If L&P comes back, perhaps you should simply take another sabbatical?...that way you wont have to subject yourself to all the bickering and ultra leftist/rightist propaganda. I would say that you're the one demonizing.

[Playboypenguin]

In fact, your smarmy comments here, and elsewhere, are perfect examples of both.

My point proven.

[Creature]

You really crack me up.

[rampage841512]

"The idea that people can respectively disagree with each other is asking more than any human being is capable of."

So, you're also saying...

The idea that people can act responsibly and own guns is asing more than any human being is capable of.

If someone can't act logically, responsibly, and politely while engaged in conversation, then it is a given that they can't be trusted with a deadly weapon.

Nope, not what I'm saying at all. Don't put words in my mouth. I said people who disagree with each other are not capable of respecting each other. "Respect" is an idea devoid of action. I never said people are not capable of logic. They are. Sometimes you're just wrong. Accept it. I never said people can't act responsibly. They can. What does acting responsible have to do with a legal and political forum, though? And for that matter, who decides what responsible is? I think it's a responsible person who attempts to show another person that they are wrong, making a mistake, or just plain stupid. And while I think we'd all appreciate a little more polite conversation, the fact is the only way to be polite when it comes to political conversation is to agree with the person you are conversing with, or keep your mouth shut after saying, "I disagree." Any attempt to explain your reasoning or to try to convince the person that you are right leads to the kinds of things that got L&P closed in the first place. Conversation ends at disagreement. Then it's just an arguement, and if you can't use all of the tools available to you in an arguement there is no point in having it.

[Creature]

Well said.

My point is that if you are not in favor of a L&P forum, fine. But if it does come back online...and you still feel that way, then just don't go in. Simple.

[Playboypenguin]

How does a "let the inmates run the asylum" mentality help solve the persistent problems that exist in legal sections of gun forums? How does "if you do not like it don't stay around" deal with the negative image of gun owners presented on these forums?

It was made pretty clear that the L&P section was not presenting a public image that was a positive one. It would be a very weak argument to try and say the forum was in anyway leaning left. The problem is not disagreements or debates. The problem is pretty much universally that the gun community is being unfairly represented as a bunch of right wing haters who accept no other opinions and are willing to use any means to squelch anyone that opposes them.

There is an old saying that pretty much translates to "if you are asked if you have a crazy relative and you say no, you are probably the crazy one in your family." Maybe if the vast majority of people see a problem and certain people are unable to see that problem they are themselves a part of the problem.

[Creature]

I disagree.

[Keltyke]

and are willing to use any means to squelch anyone that opposes them.

Including themselves.

A Baptist preacher and a Methodist preacher were talking. The Methodist asked the Baptist preacher what denomination he was. He said, "Baptist."

The Methodist responded, "Oh, you're part of that denomination who thinks only Baptists are going to Heaven."

Whereupon the Baptist replied, "It's worse than that. I'm note sure some of MY folk are going."

"We have met the enemy and it is us."

Unfortunately, it's hard to be unemotional about something you believe very strongly in. And, unfortunately, it's hard to be civil when you're very emotional. A have succumbed to this in the past, and I am not proud of it.

However, I still believe the Mods should police the L&P more tightly rather than cut it off discussion entirely.

[Creature]

As Mike Irwin so eloquently. and sarcastically, put it:

It's always the same... We can't risk people being able to control themselves.

If you cant shut them up, shut it down.

[Playboypenguin]

However, I still believe the Mods should police the L&P more tightly rather than cut it off discussion entirely.

If the manpower is available that is a good idea...but even then you have to decide how balanced is the moderating?

Another idea might be to somehow separate L&P in some way that it was not included in general searches. Meaning when you hit the "new posts" button you did not get L&P threads hitting you in the face. If you want to see L&P you have to willingly open the section itself.

Still, the problem of L&P is a very deep and long running issue. One that has been around much longer than most of us and to think simple moderating will fix it is being very hopeful.

[Keltyke]

and to think simple moderating will fix it is being very hopeful.

Ah well, perhaps you're right. The deed is done, Rome is lost to the barbarians. <falling on my sword> Hail Caesar Salad!

[pax]

*sigh*

And that's about enough of that.

pax