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Old October 19, 2015, 10:40 PM   #1
Northslope Nimrod
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Best elk cartridges for under 100 yards?

I'm looking to buy or build a light weight mountain rifle for elk hunting. All my shots should be under 100 yards. 99% of them will be within 70 yards. When I hunt in areas with longer ranges, I will carry my Remington 700 30-06 or my DPMS AR-10 in .308. Neither are particularly light.
I'm wanting something extremely light and short. The .308 seems like another good option but I want to consider all cartridges. (I'm thinking bolt action as a first choice, then semi-auto, then lever....but no single shots)
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Old October 19, 2015, 10:54 PM   #2
Radny97
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I've been hunting elk for many years and if you can get within 100 yards for a good clean shot then kudos to you. That is no small feat. At that point you should probably be using a bow, muzzle loader or handgun. At those distances a rifle takes all the challenge out of it. If you insist on a rifle, pick almost anything from 357 mag and up. At those distances the particular bullet construction matters more than the caliber.
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Old October 19, 2015, 11:04 PM   #3
Kosh75287
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I'd want a lever-action Marlin chambered for any of the lever action cartridges over .40 caliber. I guess at 100 yards, a .35 Remington would be enough, but I'd want something more powerful in .35 caliber, like a BLR in .358 Winchester. And the old M71 Winchester in .348 would also work well.
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Old October 19, 2015, 11:27 PM   #4
big al hunter
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If I was looking for a light mountain rifle, I would search the used racks for a rem. Model 7. Chamber would be 7-08. It would allow me to use heavy bullets for closer elk and lighter bullets for sheep and goats. My second choice would be a Weatherby Vanguard youth in the same chamber. If a short barrel is a must cut it to what suits you. I would also use what you specifically said you would not. A single shot, TC Encore. Without the length of the action you have a longer barrel with less total length. Very light, handles well, and accurate enough to make the first shot count. But you have to make your own decision, on your gun.
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Old October 19, 2015, 11:56 PM   #5
FrankenMauser
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Light.
Short.
Short range.
"Best".

Assuming that "best" includes some combination of the usual factors (caliber, bullet weight, terminal performance, energy, bullet selection, etc.) with a little bit of emphasis on 'power' and caliber...

I'd toss up a list something like this:
.300 WSM **
.325 WSM **
8x57mm Mauser
.358 Winchester **
.35 Whelen / .358 Hawk
.338 Marlin Express
.35 Remington
.375 SOCOM **
.375 Winchester
.375 Whelen (see .400 Whelen) / .375 Hawk
.38-55 WCF
.400 Whelen (original sharp shoulder - not the RCBS bastardization) / .411 Hawk
.444 Marlin
.458 SOCOM **
.450 Bushmaster **
.460 S&W
.45-70
.450 Alaskan
.458 Win Mag
.475 Tremor **
.500 S&W
.50 Alaskan

Cartridges marked with double asterisks (**) can be bought or built as AR-style rifles. With a little careful planning and/or a boat load of cash, ultra light versions (under 6 lbs) can be built or bought. .375 SOCOM and .475 Tremor are wildcats based on the .458 SOCOM case; designed and sold by Tromix. The .375 SOCOM is very new to the market, but was in development for over 6 years and already has a loyal following. .475 Tremor is more obscure, with only 4-5 rifles known completed (and 13 barrels, total), but those of us that have one LOVE IT! (Yes, that includes me.)

If you aren't trying to reach for the uber-powerful, then .308 Win, 7.62x54R, .300 Savage, and dozens of other cartridges are more than adequate.

My personal 'collection' of rifles, and one revolver, used for, dedicated to, or built specifically for Elk include the following cartridges (multiple rifles in different configurations for some cartridges, with 'lightweight' examples listed by weight):
7.62x54R (short range)
.270 Win (all-around)
.30-06 (all-around - 7 lb)
.35 Whelen (intermediate range - 7+ lb)
.44 Mag (very short range)
.444 Marlin (short / intermediate range - 6 lb 3 oz)
.458 SOCOM (short range)
.475 Tremor (short range - 7 lb 8 oz, - with a thinner profile barrel and light weight lower, this rifle could be sub-6 lb.)

(I prefer putting big holes in things - even if it's at lower velocity. )
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Old October 20, 2015, 12:31 AM   #6
HiBC
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I would guess the most common cartridge you will find the lighter/more compact bolt rifles in will be the 308 Win.
If you can place a good 165 gr .308 bullet in the Elk's boiler room that .308 will do the job just fine.

If you are quite serious about staying under 100 yds....A really big step toward light/compact/handy would be lose the scope and shoot iron sights...if your eyes are good and you shoot iron well.

That would be your call.
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Old October 20, 2015, 06:20 AM   #7
TimSr
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Fired from the shoulder and under 70 yards? 12 guage pump with slugs or 45-70, 454 Casull, 444 or 44 mag lever guns.
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Old October 20, 2015, 06:47 AM   #8
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.358 in a Savage 99

I want one and this would be just the excuse I need.
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Old October 20, 2015, 07:59 AM   #9
taylorce1
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Did you not read any of what was posted in your previous post on this very topic? I need a small, light mountain rifle for elk... there were several good suggestions in it, but you only posed a question and never gave any feedback to any of us. By now you should be able to narrow down the list to say the least.

You'll be hard pressed to find a cartridge that won't cleanly kill inside 100 yards from what people have listed. If you want dramatic drt kills on elk then shot placement is going to be far more critical than the cartridge. The .308 based family of cartridges will probably offer the best compromise of recoil, power, and range in a lightweight rifle.
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Old October 20, 2015, 09:41 AM   #10
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I've seen at least 100 elk shot inside of 100 yards and the only ones that did not go straight down were both shot with 7mm Magnums. One cow elk took 3 175 grain slugs to the chest and was still grazing. One 180 grain .30 caliber slug dropped her DRT.

Personally, the most dramatic shots I have taken on elk inside 100 yards were with a 12g slug and the .450Bushmaster. The slug was my first bull, at 80 yards and the imagery I will not ever forget.

"Brush" busting is a myth. The reason I like heavier calibers for hunting elk in heavy and close cover is for the much higher likelihood that I will have a shot not perfectly placed due to the higher chance of a shot on a moving animal. I want bone penetration and or a total pass through shot. My personal preference is a .444 Marlin with fiber optic sights. My .450 Bushmaster has a 1.5-6 and I use if for the same purpose.

All that said, your post makes me wonder a bit. To have that detailed knowledge of the shots you will encounter means you have no clue or you have hunted the same place a lot of times and will be rather fixed within an area. If you have that much hunting experience, then I wonder why you would be asking for advice. Don't be offended, but take wise counsel...elk are not like deer. They are tough, fast and big. Any half way decent elk hunter will tell you that they are not easy to get. Lots of time at the range, in field shooting positions is a benefit. I've tracked wounded elk (that others shot) for over 6 miles in 10F weather and it is not fun and frankly dangerous.

Best of luck on your quest.
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Old October 20, 2015, 09:43 AM   #11
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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Short range Elk in general. Would be nice to have a 35 Remington shot thru a 336 Marlin for the task.
Could go on the scout and buy a Marlin 336 anything then send the rifle to Jes and have them fellows bore the barrel to something more powerful for the task. {356 win or 375 Win } both dandy cartridges for that close in purpose on big bodied animals. When it comes to elk and how fast they can move out of sight at close range. Having a well used fast levering Marin may save the day and some mileage on you're boots.
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Old October 20, 2015, 11:28 AM   #12
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Personally I like bolt guns, and would opt for something like a .338-06 in a Mdl 70 or 700 or take you pick of the rifle brand that speaks to you the most. Why .338-06 simple as someone else stated earlier I always wanted one and that would by my reason to have one. If pressed for something more mundane and ordinary Probably a Mdl 70 featherweight or 7 or again the action/brand of your choice in .308 with good bullets and a good bright clear scope, maybe even a fast handling one in 1.5 - 4 or no more than 2-7, look better on a nice trim rifle anyway. If I had to use what I had already I would take my little Mdl 7 in 7-08/3-9 Leupold and load it with good bullets such as a Nosler Partition or one of the monometal premiums in 150 grain and up since it seems to like them. Realistically inside of 100 yards the list of rifles and cartridges that would work fine would be a long one, but I always consider what happens when things don't quite fit my plan, which happens a lot deer hunting, expecting no shots longer than 75 yards in the timber and stop out into a clearing or fence line and there he is at 200 yards and I happen to be carrying my old marlin .30-30 instead of of a scoped bolt rifle.
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Old October 20, 2015, 11:32 AM   #13
MarkCO
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Panfisher, the .338-06 is what I use, almost exclusively, for deer and elk now. It is about perfect for me.
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Old October 20, 2015, 12:29 PM   #14
GeauxTide
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I'm with Taylor, why do you ask for the same advise in two posts and never a response or a thank you for the wisdom.
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Old October 20, 2015, 12:41 PM   #15
jmr40
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The traditional lever action rounds such as 30-30, 44, 35 etc., work well enough at short range. But the more traditional bolt action calibers from 243 on up have no disadvantages up close and offer the versatility of longer range shooting.

The bullet you choose and where you put it are far more important than caliber. Pick the rifle in almost any caliber .24 or larger you like, buy good bullets and go hunting.
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Old October 20, 2015, 07:02 PM   #16
Northslope Nimrod
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My previous post was asking for "rifles." After posting that I decided that I wanted to consider what others might recommend as far as "cartridges." My other post also asked about calibers but the discussion focused on platforms and a hunting section seemed better equipped to deal with the lethality of calibers on elk.

Sorry for the duplication.

As for my short range needs, I have hunted in the same place for 25 years. I have killed dozens of elk. Only three have been over 100 yards. Its not because I sneak up close. Its because the trees are so thick.

This new purchase/build would be for walks where I know my shots will be close.

I'm leaning toward a .308 because I already have an AR10, it is a common round, and it has performed well on the six or seven elk I've used it on. (used an 06 on most) However, I wanted specific caliber recommendations for elk, perhaps I haven't considered.

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Old October 20, 2015, 07:44 PM   #17
FITASC
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Quote:
Fired from the shoulder and under 70 yards? 12 guage pump with slugs
That will work, but in a light gun, that's gonna leave a mark......
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Old October 20, 2015, 07:52 PM   #18
Dufus
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My short range caliber of choice is the 358 Win in a BLR Stainless takedown. Light weight and easy to carry in heavy cover.
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Old October 21, 2015, 12:29 AM   #19
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Id say the best advice offered is a Rem Model 7 in 7mm-08. Top it with a 1-4 or 1-6 scope and call it good

Super light package...good cartridge performance... A caliber thst can be used for lots of other hunting.
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Old October 21, 2015, 07:04 PM   #20
Northslope Nimrod
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Does the Model 7 come in .308?

I would LOVE a 1-6 scope on several of my rifles, but they are so darn $$$$.
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Old October 21, 2015, 11:41 PM   #21
FrankenMauser
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So go with a 2-7x.

...Such as the Redfield Revolution 2-7x33mm.
Good scope. Great warranty (if you ever need it). 11.1 oz.

I do like the Redfield Revolution model line (essentially a Leupold Rifleman or previous generation VX-1), but I don't advise giving them your money for any of the import models (such as Revenge and Battlezone). They're sub-par in my comparisons.



Look into a Tikka T3 SuperLite. It's not on their website, and most dealers will tell you you're stupid for asking about it, "It doesn't exist!" ... but I know they're out there. As mentioned in the other thread, one of my uncles just picked one up in .308 Win. Topped with Talley mounts and rings, and a Vortex 4-16x (can't remember model), it weighed in at less than 6 lbs. (His word and how it felt in my hands - I didn't, personally, put it on a scale.)
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Old October 21, 2015, 11:50 PM   #22
Kosh75287
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Just because the OP didn't EXPRESS gratitude, why are we so quick to assume INgratitude?
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Old October 22, 2015, 11:43 AM   #23
taylorce1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrakenMauser
So go with a 2-7x.
Natchez is offering a great deal on Weaver Classic V scopes in 2-7 and 2-10 right now.
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Old October 22, 2015, 10:25 PM   #24
Northslope Nimrod
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I shy away from 7mm offerings. I know people's opinions differ but my hesitation is simply from anecdotal evidence. I'm a big fan of the 7mm and 7mm-08, except in a very narrow set of circumstances. Specifically, we have seen them less effective on elk when shot at extremely close ranges (ie: less than 30 yards). The elk seem to just keep running, not knowing they are dead. The thick trees I hunt in makes it extremely difficult to find an elk that keeps running. Elk don't always bleed out well.
The elk I shot this year was a nice 5 point bull at 25 yards. He only ran about 75-80 yards, yet it took me 25 minutes to find him. I thought he ran left; then I followed some tracks that went right. Ultimately I found that he ran straight down the mountain. He was dead when I found him and his left shoulder was completely destroyed. I had to cut off what meat I could salvage from the bone. I never saw a drop of blood...though the rain probably made finding blood a bit more difficult. These type of shots are common on our hunts. Most shots are around 60 yards but some are 25 yards. (As Elmer Fudd would say..."you must walk vawwy quiet") This bull just stood there looking at me as I emerged from thick timber. Couldn't believe he didn't move...because I was carrying my 06 on my shoulder and had to smoothly remove it and raise it to my shoulder without him bolting. Deer often freeze like that but not mature bulls....atleast not in my neck of the woods. I rarely carry my rifle on my shoulder while hunting because you will miss the split second chance when you happen upon elk, but when you haven't seen anything for two hours and its pouring rain, you get complacent/lazy.
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Old October 22, 2015, 10:36 PM   #25
Kosh75287
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Never hunted elk, but I think I would enjoy it. If I had a situation like yours, in which I could be 95% certain that 95% of my shots would be at no more than 100 yards, I'd look for a cartridge which would still remain very effective at 250, just to err on the side of caution, and keep Murphy's Law at bay.

A short-action bolt rifle in .358 Winchester with a medium eye-relief scope (say. 2X) mounted forward of the action would probably work. A youth model .243 or .308 could be rebarreled for not a lot of money. The three rounds I mention all are the same case with differing neck diameters, so brass availability shouldn't be an issue.

Such a rifle might not be optimal medicine for 400-yard shots, but it might be capable of more than one might expect at that range.
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