.44 Mag, loads for self-defense

gvf · October 3, 2006, 02:10 AM

Is there any commercially available load for .44 magnum that would allow use against human attackers, without concerns about over-penetration or unmanagable recoil? or does such an animal not exist?

Socrates · October 3, 2006, 03:03 AM

Arizona DA blew a car thief's head off, with glasser ammo. Guy was pointing a rifle at him...

S

PugetSound88 · October 3, 2006, 04:48 PM

Wanted to delete this post but I'm unable to find the delete function in the edit menu...

Diggers · October 4, 2006, 02:30 AM

Heh heh Arizona, where DA's pack .44 mags.

I havent' seen anything that is really made for SD in .44 mag. Just too much penetration. There are a few in .44 special that are pretty nice for SD, which you could use in a .44 mag of couse.

I have winchester siver tips .44 special for my 629 for HD. From tests I seen it seems like pretty good ammo. Close to a .45

http://www.gunblast.com/Cassill_Bulldog.htm

Here is an artical to read about different .44 special ammo for SD.

Mosin44az · October 4, 2006, 02:41 AM

Cor-Bon has a defense load, as I recall it's still pretty stiff on recoil. Haven't tried my latest box.

For defense I use the Silvertip .44spcl. and the slightly hotter-feeling CCI Blazer .44spcl. with the huge Gold Dot hollowpoint. Looks adequate. Think Cor-Bon has a .44 Special too.

Hal · October 4, 2006, 03:13 AM

Federal makes a .44mag Hydra Shok

Renfield · October 4, 2006, 07:03 AM

I have some Triton Quik Shok hollowpoints

240 grains at 1200 fps

joshua · October 4, 2006, 07:13 AM

44Mag for self defense is not an overkill if you're Detective Callahan. Wazzzup Dirty Harry? Joking aside I can't seem to think of any good loads for self defense except for 44 Special loads. I'd probably go with a light hollow point like the Hornady 44 SPCL 180 GR HP/XTP. Now if you really want to blow big holes and sure one shot stopping power provided you hit at the right place then try the Hornady 44 MAG 180 GR HP/XTP. josh

Tamara · October 4, 2006, 07:45 AM

Federal's Hydra-Shok is a 240gr bullet loaded pretty much right at sonic, and should be the berries for a .44 Mag SD load.

dogngun · October 4, 2006, 04:42 PM

I used to carry a 4" 29-2 Smith loaded with CCI Blazer .44 Mag JHP's.
THey may be a little overpowered, but they are very accurate, and I feel they are about a mid-range load. The CCI site has the ballistics on them...they are also cheap enough to practice a lot with.

They also make an excellent .44 Special JHP with a HUGE hollow point, I believe 200 grain, that is an excellent defence round.

I now carry Federal JHP's in my 5" 29-5
BOOM !
Mark

Laz · October 4, 2006, 07:33 PM

I believe that Speer now catalogs .44 magnum in their "short-barrel" ammo line. It is a 200 grain hollowpoint at a little under 1100 fps, 1075 I think.

V4Vendetta · October 4, 2006, 07:42 PM

Actually, according to www.imdb.com , Although Harry was supposed to use a S & W Model 29 .44 Mag, the actual gun used was the Model 57 in .41 Magnum.

That's for the first Dirty Harry movie.

BobGnKY · October 4, 2006, 09:30 PM

I just shot some gold dots this past weekend. They're pretty soft on recoil in my SBH's. A bit less than the Hydra shoks. I was trying them out because I'm having a harder and harder time finding silvertips in .44 mag. With the huge cavity of the gold dots, I'd guess you wouldn't have to worry about overpenetration, unless you shot an invertebrate from point blank range.

just my 2 cents.

Sarge · October 4, 2006, 10:33 PM

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Winchester .44/210 grain Silvertip. It penetrates no more than the Federal 230 HydraShok in .45 ACP:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...2&postcount=32

joshua · October 5, 2006, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Actually, according to www.imdb.com , Although Harry was supposed to use a S & W Model 29 .44 Mag, the actual gun used was the Model 57 in .41 Magnum.

What?!!

Hollywood lied to us?

They should have another Dirty Harry movie, make him carry a traditional S&W 29 and give him a partner that carries a Beretta 92 that is psychotic/suicidal but an ex special forces and can tack a nail with a european sniper rifle at 1200 yards in high wind. Yeah that's it.

Thread jacking over-Oooops back to the original subject.
josh

Webleymkv · October 5, 2006, 08:54 PM

Remington 240grn SJHP would probably work though it's a bit on the stout side.

Diggers · October 6, 2006, 02:59 AM

Have you guys seen this?

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot28.htm

They are testing out the .45 long colt. Not a .44 mag but pretty close to the .44 special. Amazing what bullet shape does. Also it gives a good idea as to what you want the fps to be with bullets in that weight.
I need to find some good SWC for when I'm in the woods.

Socrates · October 6, 2006, 10:04 AM

Thanks, excellent link.
12" is NOT enough...

S

Edward429451 · October 6, 2006, 10:19 AM

Quote:

JHP bullets aren't really much improvement on these big rounds. Even if they don't expand, they are still .45 inch wide.

I suspected as much. Yay hard cast lead. We don't need no steenking high priced copper...

I don't believe in over penetration either.

Socrates · October 8, 2006, 01:44 AM

IIRC, 10% of police bullets find innocent bystanders. Civilian defense is 2%, or less.

Appears civilian shooters are much better. Most of the penetration, over penetration stuff is about police shootings, NOT civilians.

S

Nanuk · October 8, 2006, 09:21 AM

I've always like my 44's. I use 210 STHP in my 4" Mountain gun. I also like the PMC Starfire line. For SD I also like the 180's at around 1500fps.

Snowman92D · October 11, 2006, 12:37 AM

If it's any help, we tested some .44 magnum jhp loads in 10% gel at the academy range this past spring. The Remington generic 180-grain jhp (catalog #R44MG50) penetrated around 13.5 to 14-inches after going through a 4X denim barrier. Expanded to around .70 caliber. It was the best of the .44 mag loads we tested. Federal's 180-grain (catalog #44B) jhp load penetrated deeper, but not as much as the 200-grain and 240-grain jhp loads. From what I saw, I think the Remington 180-grain jhp would be the way to go in a full-powered .44 mag, if that's your poison.

tulsamal · October 11, 2006, 01:17 AM

As was mentioned earlier, CorBon has this covered. They start off with the .44 Special. 165 grain JHP at 1050 fps. (Used to be 1150 but they reduced it. I'm still carrying the hotter stuff in my M296.) Then they take that same 165 grain JHP and push it up to 1300 for .44 Magnum. So the Corbon .44 Special load is quite warm and the .44 Magnum load is mild. Only 250 fps difference. Either one is likely to work.

If I was really going to carry a .44 Magnum for SD, I would look at the new Corbon load. They now have a .44 Special in the DPX line. 200 grains of solid copper. Perfect expansion and weight retention every time. 950 fps. Heeeeeyyyy, I didn't even know they were making a DPX load for .44 Magnum but the website shows it. 225 grains at 1350 fps. Now that would be a crowd pleaser!

Gregg

gvf · October 11, 2006, 01:46 AM

Thanks everyone for your help and input-mucho appreciated!
GVF

cochise · October 11, 2006, 05:36 AM

I always thought a SD round for the .44 mag would be a 220, / 225 grn bullet around 1100 ft per sec.

I know in self defense the first shot is critical and anything over 1100 ft per sec is going to be a determent unless you do ALLOT of shooting / practice.

My cast reloads are between 1100 / 1200 ft per sec, and very accurate with modest flash and recoil. I definitely do not like the BIG BLAST effect. But that is why I carry either a M24 Smith or a 1911.

October 3, 2006, 02:10 AM	#1
gvf Junior member Join Date: July 30, 2006 Posts: 1,226	.44 Mag, loads for self-defense Is there any commercially available load for .44 magnum that would allow use against human attackers, without concerns about over-penetration or unmanagable recoil? or does such an animal not exist?

October 3, 2006, 04:48 PM	#3
PugetSound88 Member Join Date: October 3, 2006 Posts: 21	Wanted to delete this post but I'm unable to find the delete function in the edit menu... Last edited by PugetSound88; October 3, 2006 at 04:56 PM. Reason: delete

October 4, 2006, 07:03 AM	#7
Renfield Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2006 Location: just down the street Posts: 599	I have some Triton Quik Shok hollowpoints 240 grains at 1200 fps __________________ "Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools, that don't have brains enough to be honest" Benjamin Franklin "In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends" Martin Luther King, Jr. "Orators are most vehement when their cause is weak" Marcus Tullius Cicero

October 4, 2006, 07:45 AM	#9
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	Federal's Hydra-Shok is a 240gr bullet loaded pretty much right at sonic, and should be the berries for a .44 Mag SD load. __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

October 4, 2006, 07:33 PM	#11
Laz Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 1999 Posts: 1,278	I believe that Speer now catalogs .44 magnum in their "short-barrel" ammo line. It is a 200 grain hollowpoint at a little under 1100 fps, 1075 I think. __________________ Laz I’m just a nobody, trying to tell everybody, about Somebody, who can save anybody.

October 3, 2006, 03:03 AM	#2
Socrates Junior member Join Date: January 5, 2005 Location: East Bay NorCal, People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 5,866	Arizona DA blew a car thief's head off, with glasser ammo. Guy was pointing a rifle at him... S

October 4, 2006, 02:30 AM	#4
Diggers Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2005 Posts: 366	Heh heh Arizona, where DA's pack .44 mags. I havent' seen anything that is really made for SD in .44 mag. Just too much penetration. There are a few in .44 special that are pretty nice for SD, which you could use in a .44 mag of couse. I have winchester siver tips .44 special for my 629 for HD. From tests I seen it seems like pretty good ammo. Close to a .45 http://www.gunblast.com/Cassill_Bulldog.htm Here is an artical to read about different .44 special ammo for SD.

October 4, 2006, 02:41 AM	#5
Mosin44az Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2006 Posts: 2,585	Cor-Bon has a defense load, as I recall it's still pretty stiff on recoil. Haven't tried my latest box. For defense I use the Silvertip .44spcl. and the slightly hotter-feeling CCI Blazer .44spcl. with the huge Gold Dot hollowpoint. Looks adequate. Think Cor-Bon has a .44 Special too.

October 4, 2006, 03:13 AM	#6
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,563	Federal makes a .44mag Hydra Shok

October 4, 2006, 07:13 AM	#8
joshua Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2004 Location: norCal Posts: 2,161	44Mag for self defense is not an overkill if you're Detective Callahan. Wazzzup Dirty Harry? Joking aside I can't seem to think of any good loads for self defense except for 44 Special loads. I'd probably go with a light hollow point like the Hornady 44 SPCL 180 GR HP/XTP. Now if you really want to blow big holes and sure one shot stopping power provided you hit at the right place then try the Hornady 44 MAG 180 GR HP/XTP. josh

October 4, 2006, 04:42 PM	#10
dogngun Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2002 Location: South east PA Posts: 570	I used to carry a 4" 29-2 Smith loaded with CCI Blazer .44 Mag JHP's. THey may be a little overpowered, but they are very accurate, and I feel they are about a mid-range load. The CCI site has the ballistics on them...they are also cheap enough to practice a lot with. They also make an excellent .44 Special JHP with a HUGE hollow point, I believe 200 grain, that is an excellent defence round. I now carry Federal JHP's in my 5" 29-5 BOOM ! Mark

October 4, 2006, 07:42 PM	#12
V4Vendetta Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2006 Location: NC, USA Posts: 605	Actually, according to www.imdb.com , Although Harry was supposed to use a S & W Model 29 .44 Mag, the actual gun used was the Model 57 in .41 Magnum. That's for the first Dirty Harry movie. __________________ But I being poor, have only my dreams. Tread softly. Because you tread on my dreams. Within each one of us there is a inch of hope, of will, of integrity. We must never lose or give away that inch. For within it we are free.

October 4, 2006, 09:30 PM	#13
BobGnKY Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2006 Location: Mayberry (Shelbyville) KY Posts: 137	I just shot some gold dots this past weekend. They're pretty soft on recoil in my SBH's. A bit less than the Hydra shoks. I was trying them out because I'm having a harder and harder time finding silvertips in .44 mag. With the huge cavity of the gold dots, I'd guess you wouldn't have to worry about overpenetration, unless you shot an invertebrate from point blank range. just my 2 cents. __________________ There are three kinds of people in the world, Those who can count, and those who cant ...@

October 4, 2006, 10:33 PM	#14
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Winchester .44/210 grain Silvertip. It penetrates no more than the Federal 230 HydraShok in .45 ACP: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...2&postcount=32 __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

October 5, 2006, 08:54 PM	#16
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	Remington 240grn SJHP would probably work though it's a bit on the stout side.

October 6, 2006, 02:59 AM	#17
Diggers Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2005 Posts: 366	Have you guys seen this? http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot28.htm They are testing out the .45 long colt. Not a .44 mag but pretty close to the .44 special. Amazing what bullet shape does. Also it gives a good idea as to what you want the fps to be with bullets in that weight. I need to find some good SWC for when I'm in the woods.

October 6, 2006, 10:04 AM	#18
Socrates Junior member Join Date: January 5, 2005 Location: East Bay NorCal, People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 5,866	Thanks, excellent link. 12" is NOT enough... S

October 8, 2006, 01:44 AM	#20
Socrates Junior member Join Date: January 5, 2005 Location: East Bay NorCal, People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 5,866	IIRC, 10% of police bullets find innocent bystanders. Civilian defense is 2%, or less. Appears civilian shooters are much better. Most of the penetration, over penetration stuff is about police shootings, NOT civilians. S

October 8, 2006, 09:21 AM	#21
Nanuk Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam. Posts: 3,082	I've always like my 44's. I use 210 STHP in my 4" Mountain gun. I also like the PMC Starfire line. For SD I also like the 180's at around 1500fps.

October 11, 2006, 12:37 AM	#22
Snowman92D Registration in progress Join Date: November 3, 2001 Location: Indiana Posts: 18	If it's any help, we tested some .44 magnum jhp loads in 10% gel at the academy range this past spring. The Remington generic 180-grain jhp (catalog #R44MG50) penetrated around 13.5 to 14-inches after going through a 4X denim barrier. Expanded to around .70 caliber. It was the best of the .44 mag loads we tested. Federal's 180-grain (catalog #44B) jhp load penetrated deeper, but not as much as the 200-grain and 240-grain jhp loads. From what I saw, I think the Remington 180-grain jhp would be the way to go in a full-powered .44 mag, if that's your poison.

October 11, 2006, 01:17 AM	#23
tulsamal Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2004 Location: Vinita, OK Posts: 2,552	As was mentioned earlier, CorBon has this covered. They start off with the .44 Special. 165 grain JHP at 1050 fps. (Used to be 1150 but they reduced it. I'm still carrying the hotter stuff in my M296.) Then they take that same 165 grain JHP and push it up to 1300 for .44 Magnum. So the Corbon .44 Special load is quite warm and the .44 Magnum load is mild. Only 250 fps difference. Either one is likely to work. If I was really going to carry a .44 Magnum for SD, I would look at the new Corbon load. They now have a .44 Special in the DPX line. 200 grains of solid copper. Perfect expansion and weight retention every time. 950 fps. Heeeeeyyyy, I didn't even know they were making a DPX load for .44 Magnum but the website shows it. 225 grains at 1350 fps. Now that would be a crowd pleaser! Gregg

October 11, 2006, 01:46 AM	#24
gvf Junior member Join Date: July 30, 2006 Posts: 1,226	Thanks Thanks everyone for your help and input-mucho appreciated! GVF

October 11, 2006, 05:36 AM	#25
cochise Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2001 Location: Orlando Posts: 299	I always thought a SD round for the .44 mag would be a 220, / 225 grn bullet around 1100 ft per sec. I know in self defense the first shot is critical and anything over 1100 ft per sec is going to be a determent unless you do ALLOT of shooting / practice. My cast reloads are between 1100 / 1200 ft per sec, and very accurate with modest flash and recoil. I definitely do not like the BIG BLAST effect. But that is why I carry either a M24 Smith or a 1911. __________________ Jim