Open carry (good or bad)

[Big Tom]

So I live in the State of DE and open carry is allowed in most places within the state. But is it a good thing or a bad thing to carry openly? Does open carry target you for more problems with BG's? Does it make other fear you when you are not looking for trouble? Is it likely to be stopped often by law enforcement? Overall is it good or bad?

[TylerD45ACP]

Good and Bad. Can be a deterrent. Also can paint a sign for a BG on you that says " shoot me first". Im on the fence too about this one. I wouldnt say its bad but concealed is better.

[NavyLT]

Open carry = good. Concealed carry = good.

1. Deterrent value:

http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atlan...ry-in-Kennesaw

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-fa...-5.1-print.pdf
Page 30:
Fact: Every day, 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes are prevented just by showing a gun. In less than 0.9% of these instances is the gun ever actually fired.

Fact: 60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed.

Fact: Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear being shot.

Why would a criminal CHOOSE a target they knew to be armed when they could just wait two minutes or go down the street one block and find a plethora of targets that appeared to not be armed? I would rather deter a crime being considered against me than defend against a crime already in progress. A hidden gun cannot deter crime.

2. Responsible open carry shows the public that it is OK for normal, everyday Americans to have the means available to them to protect themselves while doing normal everyday activities. If they don't see normal people carrying, the only image they will have of guns is from the movies, the media and from groups like the Brady Bunch. Which image would you rather the public see?

3. Faster draw from a holster out in the open vice a holster covered for concealment.

4. No fuss about dressing or clothing choices. I just push my paddle holster on over my belt and go.

Those of us who open carry everyday find that 90% of the people don't notice, 9% who do notice are either curious and often times don't even know that it is legal or are positive and supportive about it, and 1% who do notice are against it or afraid. Unfortunately, on the internet and media, you only hear about the last 1%, because the other 99% is boring.

If you want to carry concealed, then carry concealed. I don't care. I carry concealed sometimes, such as in malls, or when I absolutely do not want an activity possibly ruined by an uninvited police encounter, which rarely happens...but does. I wouldn't say concealed carry is bad, but open carry is better.

[azyogi]

Only in areas where OC is new or rare do sheeple run screaming from the mere sighting of a GUN. Been OC 30 years never been harassed by LEO, or targeted first. Think LT is right trouble seems to avoid the prepared. Just started CC last week doesn't seem to change much. As far as a dress code or grooming standard for OC, those that judge by such picayune things are going to look askance at those they presume inferior, with or without a gun in the picture.

[sakeneko]

I open carry from time to time. Most people don't even notice. I've had a couple of people ask questions, but not hostile questions -- they seemed genuinely curious. One of them traveled with his wife for half the year hitting state fairs and carnivals with their trailer full of stuff for sale, and was considering getting a gun for self protection. We had a good conversation about the laws for both concealed and open carry in a number of western states in the U.S.

I do make it a point to conceal in certain circumstances. If I'm going to be at a park or another area where there are lots of small children running around, I conceal. Don't want to risk having a curious kid grab for the gun. (It happened once; fortunately my reflexes are good.) If I'm going to be in a crowd (I usually avoid them), I conceal. And if I'm in a hurry and don't have time to stop and talk with curious people, I conceal. I figure one of the big reasons for carrying openly is so that people can ask questions and learn that there's nothing to be afraid of when somebody is just carrying a gun. So if I don't have time to do that, I don't carry openly.

Otherwise, it depends mostly on what I'm wearing and what is most convenient. In the summer, I carry openly more. In the winter, when open carry is a pain, I conceal more. :-)

[chris in va]

I OC on occasion, but don't do it much just because I am bad with personal interaction and don't care for the 'attention' it brings. If people would just leave me the heck alone, I'd do it all the time.

[Big Tom]

Navy, I have to skim over the second link more but it was pretty neat so thanks for that. Also why is it so many crimes occur at Waffle shops?



Chris,

Ya I hear ya it sux idk y people don't know their own 2nd Amendment right or their local laws. Its so irritating how people wont try to learn things for themselves sometimes. I at least try to find things out for myself. And if I'm unsure then I post questions on the forum.

[Delaware_Dan]

Big Tom, I'm not sure where you live, but OC is likely to get you harassed in northern Delaware. I have live in northern DE for years upon years, and have only seen OC once. If you want to get your CC permit, PM me. It's a breeze, and the guy that teaches the class will walk you through every step.

[NavyLT]

Also why is it so many crimes occur at Waffle shops?

The hours they are open. IE: 4:45 am.

I was stationed in Oklahoma City a few years ago, and went to work at 5:00 am. The BG's were obviously watching my house because they came in my back yard about 5:05 am. My three dogs chased them out of the back yard. The BG's must have thought I locked the dogs in the yard when I went to work because they then came to the front door and kicked the door in. My wife screamed, the three dogs came into the house through the doggie door and chased them out of the house. (It might have been only BG, it was still dark). If it wasn't for my dogs, who knows what would have happened. That incident precipitated our first home defense handgun purchase.

I have been in the military (Army National Guard and US Navy) since 1984, so I am not new to guns, though. In the ARNG I was the unit armorer in charge of 200+ M-16's, M-203 grenade launchers, and M60 and M2 machine guns.

[Skans]

I have no desire to open carry. When I was in my late teens/early twenties, I was pretty muscular - this often made me a target of some "billy badass" and got me into fights for no reason whatsoever, other than some guy wanted to test his fighting skills against mine. I'm a pretty non-violent guy, so I did not appreciate this kind of negative attention.

I can easily see the same thing happening with open carry - some jackass is eventially going to see if he can make you draw your weapon for kicks and giggles. I see no advantage to this.

[dabigguns357]

I would like to have the chance to choose one way or the other.

Here in West Virginia if you have a Permit your gun has to be concealed,if you don't have a permit your gun has to be out in the open.I think if you have a permit it should be your choice.

[NavyLT]

Originally Posted by dabigguns357

I would like to have the chance to choose one way or the other.

Here in West Virginia if you have a Permit your gun has to be concealed,if you don't have a permit your gun has to be out in the open.I think if you have a permit it should be your choice.

You may want to research your state laws, becuase the information you have received is erroneous. A permit gives you the OPTION to conceal. It does NOT require you to conceal. The would be like saying that because you have a license to drive a car, you can no longer ride a bicycle which requires no license.

West Virginia has state preemption of firearms laws, so open carry is legal across the state of WV whether or not you have a permit. EXCEPT, open carry bans established in municipalities that existed before the preemption statute are still in effect - so in some cities, such as Charleston, open carry is prohibited - whether the person has a permit or not.

http://www.legis.state.wv.us/WVCODE/...ction=5A#12#12

WEST VIRGINIA CODE

§8-12-5a. Limitations upon municipalities' power to restrict the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, transport, sale and storage of certain weapons and ammunition.

The provisions of section five of this article notwithstanding, neither a municipality nor the governing body of any municipality may limit the right of any person to purchase, possess, transfer, own, carry, transport, sell or store any revolver, pistol, rifle or shotgun or any ammunition or ammunition components to be used therewith nor to so regulate the keeping of gunpowder so as to directly or indirectly prohibit the ownership of the ammunition. Nothing herein shall in any way impair the authority of any municipality, or the governing body thereof, to enact any ordinance or resolution respecting the power to arrest, convict and punish any individual under the provisions of subdivision (16), section five of this article or from enforcing any such ordinance or resolution: Provided, That any municipal ordinance in place as of the effective date of this section shall be excepted from the provisions of this section: Provided, however, That no provision in this section may be construed to limit the authority of a municipality to restrict the commercial use of real estate in designated areas through planning or zoning ordinances.

Here is your concealed weapons codes:
http://www.legis.state.wv.us/WVCODE/...ap=61&art=7#07

You will not find anything in the statute that prohibits open carry - with or without a permit.

[The Great Mahoo]

I don't see it as good or bad, beyond its good to have the option. I like the idea of open carry, but its not for me at this time. I just find it easy to toss on a cover garment and avoid any would-be hassles from the antis. That said, I am not exactly over concerned if it prints or shows, since OC is fine where I live.

[Sefner]

Originally Posted by sakeneko

I figure one of the big reasons for carrying openly is so that people can ask questions and learn that there's nothing to be afraid of when somebody is just carrying a gun.

Posted this in another thread, I like this reason. The more people see "MAN WITH A GUN!!" doing the normal things that we do, buying groceries and chatting with the cashier, getting gas, buying some tools from the hardware store, mowing the lawn, walking the dog, fishing off the boardwalk, etc etc, the more people will begin to realize that people with guns are not criminals. Especially people with holstered guns (when is the last time you saw a criminal draw from his $100 Galco Holster?). Then the people that ask about it realize that you are a normal person, just like them, and not the raving redneck lunatic serial killing bent on avenging Hitler that the media makes you out to be. That metaphorically plants the metaphorical seed.

Bu just like those CCW badge guys, some OC'ers are, as the internet would say, doing it wrong. How? OC'ing dressed in (and these are overblown, prejudiced stereotypes that I have never heard of or seen, just making a point) ripped jean shorts and a wife beater with flip flops and a Budweiser baseball hat over your mullet while talking about "dem dammed obama's tryin to take mah gernz". Even if he is trying to take our guns, walking around talking about it while still being able to carry out in the open loses credibility with the general public. Or OC'ing dressed in a black hoodie (the the hoodie up over your face covered in black makeup) with a pentagram on it, black ripped jeans covered in zippers and straps, and walking around with your shoulders slumped, head down, and your hands in your pockets. Being obnoxious about the gun, touching it, pointing at and laughing at the people that notice, asking people if they like your gun, saying crap like "don't make me use it" in a "joking" fashion (it's never joking). Now, if you are dressed nicely (I'm not saying to the tees, just that you tried), have an open stance, smile at people, and are polite, it looks metaphorically shines a much better metaphorical light onto the gun community.

I'm not saying that people who OC in ripped jean shorts, wife beaters, black hoodies with devil symbols, and black goth pants shouldn't be OCing. They have the same right to carry and I will still fight for that right. I'm just saying that if the goal is to further gun rights and the gun community as a whole, that people who would OC with that demeanor need to reconsider.

[demigod]

I OC on occasion, but don't do it much just because I am bad with personal interaction and don't care for the 'attention' it brings. If people would just leave me the heck alone, I'd do it all the time.

Exactly.

[TylerD45ACP]

Nice 1st post NavyLt, with all the statistics, that was interesting. My first post I said I thought concealed was "better". Thats the wrong word to use its has its pros and cons as does OC. After reading this thread, I think there are appropriate times for OC and appropriate times for CC. IMO, anytime someone is carrying anyway is a good thing. I liked the idea as someone was saying to get the general public more familiar with those who carry. Allow them to realize were not nut jobs like the media makes us out to be. OC is defintley NOT a bad thing as the thread asks.

[Big Tom]

Sefner,

Well said. Luckily I spent my whole work career in customer service. I do 100% agree with everything you have said as well!

[dabigguns357]

You may want to research your state laws

I just called the Cabell County Sheriff's office who gave me my permit and this is what they said

"If you have a concealed carry permit,your gun must be concealed.

You do not need a permit to carry a gun openly,but under this law your gun has to be visible at all times.

I am repeating what they told me,and i don't think i want to test the waters and taking a chance of getting my permit revoked or worse.

[NavyLT]

Their answer is not supported by statute. They are imposing upon you (and other citizens) their desire as to how they would like you to carry your firearm - out of sight, out of mind, no danger of a MWAG call.

It's a shame that, in America, we have come to willingly accept such behavior by LEO agencies. That's not the America that I desire to live in.

[TylerD45ACP]

Agreed. The country is changing right now and not for the better. .

[langenc]

""Here in West Virginia if you have a Permit your gun has to be concealed,if you don't have a permit your gun has to be out in the open.I think if you have a permit it should be your choice."" quoted from above.

This is royal BS. Just because you pay and jump thru the hoops dont mean you give away your 2A rights!!

I have head it said here in MI the above, but it is not so here.

[Mr. James]

Thank you NavyLT, sakeneko and Sefner - well said, all.

Everytime this subject comes up, I rush to the fray, only to find NavyLT has stated the case with greater clarity and erudition than I could hope. Excellent points, too, from sakeneko (about prudence in open carrying) and Sefner (about being a good ambassador for gun rights in general).

Open carry almost all the time, in an historically anti-gun jurisdiction. I rarely, if ever, wear shorts, and am waaaay too old for the Goth look. Short hair, trimmed beard, neat dress. I hold doors, say "yes, ma'am," and "no, sir," and do my damnedest to show that your neighbor, fellow parishoner, baseball coach, etc. is also a responsible gun owner.

I am also convinced that if the typical street criminal sees a man walking confidently with an open sidearm, he's going elsewhere. His first reaction would be "Johnny Law." Even if he got as far as "armed citizen," he'd figure why tangle with porcupines with all these nice gentle rabbits walking around?

[hagar]

Personally unless I am out hunting, hiking or maybe fishing I would never open carry. It scares the sheeple too much, gets unwanted attraction from the police with or without "man with a gun" calls, and encourages the bad guys to challenge you, either verbally or physically. Three perps can disarm you in a heartbeat, you cannot go around shooting people for crowding your space or insulting you. And if you DO end up shooting somebody, the law would be all over you, claiming that you were looking for trouble, just looking to get into a gunfight. If I had 10 other buddys doing it with me in close company, maybe, but alone, not in this life.

[tcox4freedom]

I think ANY carry is a very good thing.

I wish my state had OC; but it doesn't.

I think OC is "tactically" the best way to carry.

HOWEVER!

I do not think OC is "always" the most prudent & wise choice.

[TylerD45ACP]

The more I read this thread I think different circumstances call for different methods of carry.