St. Cloud MN Shooting - Good Guy with a Gun

[rpseraph]

Major major kudos to the off-duty police officer who was carrying concealed at a mall in St. Cloud MN. 22-year old stabbed 9 people, came at the off-duty officer, and the officer drew his weapon and put him down. This is why we conceal carry. We don't want to use our weapons. We don't want to kill people. But if an act of violence is happening or about to happen to us or around us, we defend ourselves and stop that violence.

"Though the mall's security teams were on site, the security officers were not armed."

Amid the chaos, Jason Falconer, an off-duty police officer from nearby Avon, killed the suspect as he threatened other shoppers.
Authorities said Adan, the attacker, had three previous encounters with police. According to Anderson, most of the encounters were for minor traffic violations, none of which led to an arrest. The police chief declined to provide further details about the attacker until more information was known.
At a news conference Sunday afternoon, the mayor and police chief praised Falconer, a part-time officer and former police chief of Albany, Minnesota, for taking action. Both officials said they had viewed a surveillance tape from Macy's which revealed details of the confrontation.
"His heroic actions are exemplary of having witnessed what he did as the suspect was lunging at him with a knife," Kleis said. "Not only did he fire, the suspect went down, came back up on three different occasions. He protected others from being injured and potentially loss of life. Clearly, a hero."

[Bartholomew Roberts]

In terms of recognizing how quickly these incidents can develop, I read one news story say that from the first 911 call to the attacker being down and out was less than five minutes.

So a guy with a contact only weapon was averaging about 2 victims a minute before his attack was interrupted.

[Mainah]

From what l've read the officer did a great job, kudos to him. From our perspective it seems like it might be helpful to know what (if any) laws prevented the terrorist from walking into the mall with a firearm.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Mainah

From our perspective it seems like it might be helpful to know what (if any) laws prevented the terrorist from walking into the mall with a firearm.

I'm sure the mall had a "No Guns" sign posted at the entrance. See? It worked -- he didn't use a gun.

[Sharkbite]

Good job in the shooters part.

Unfortunately, the media will focus on his being a LEO, and not the fact that a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy from killing more people.

LEO, CCW holder, armed Security guard.....any of these represent our best defense against evil doers.

[dajowi]

It should be noted that it was not just a "good guy with a gun" but a "good guy with a gun with GOOD TRAINING" that took the Islamic Terrorist down.

[MarkCO]

And, USPSA and 3Gun competition did NOT get him killed.

[5whiskey]

It should be noted that it was not just a "good guy with a gun" but a "good guy with a gun with GOOD TRAINING" that took the Islamic Terrorist down.

Maybe, but many cops train far less than a firearms enthusiast. Unless the cop himself is a firearms enthusiast. I would bet that most here who shoot at least once a month could shoot better than 75% of cops out there. I know this from experience.

Unfortunately, the media will focus on his being a LEO, and not the fact that a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy from killing more people.

My thoughts, and what I don't want to happen. I'm a cop... I'm proud of the cop that stopped this. But I don't think it's something that many civilians with the right mind set couldn't do.

[Old Bill Dibble]

This is the second mass stabbing terror attack stopped by an OD LEO in a mall this year.

The Trolley Square shooter was pinned down by an off duty police officer until the Active Shooter team showed and downed him. Two unarmed civilians jumped the Hudson Mall shooter when he ran out of ammo.

I don't go to malls. Most of the indoor malls in the rural areas and cities that are not mega cities have gone under due to high rents, low traffic and too much competition from Walmart and Target.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Sadly the St Cloud Mall is a gun free zone. And still is.

That's why the location was picked by the Somali immigrant I suspect. People in that Mall had a higher power looking down on them that evening and a off duty Cop close by to seal the faith of that Somali coward. Problem with such shopping places. The Legal Conceal Carry Individual has to abide a proprietors demand.> St Cloud Mall Bans Guns on these Premises.

Cops don't.

[rickyrick]

The guy is also a CCW instructor and owns a tactical/self defense school

[rickyrick]

And a competitor, I wonder if he's a member here?

[Old Bill Dibble]

The Legal Conceal Carry Individual has to abide a proprietors demand.> St Cloud Mall Bans Guns on these Premises.

Cops don't.

That's not right.

I'd consider it an obligation to carry, just like I do when I go to schools.

Technically in Alabama unless the LEO is a Federal Marshall or in discharge of his duties he is not exempt from private property carry restrictions either. Most LEOs go ahead and get a CCL. To make a restriction the way the law is written it is very difficult to enforce and the owner has to do a bit more than put up a sign.

Carry permit rates in "shall issue" Alabama are the highest in the country. In our little county nearly 20% of the adults in the county have a carry permit. I can count on one hand the number of non-government entities that have no-gun signs posted. Many RFD mail carriers, tow truck drivers and a lot of local delivery drivers carry.

Open carry is legal. I see someone open carrying at Walmart at least once a week.

Except as otherwise provided in this article, no person shall carry a pistol about his person on private property not his own or under his control unless the person possesses a valid concealed weapon permit or the person has the consent of the owner or legal possessor of the premises;  but this section shall not apply to any law enforcement officer in the lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or to United States marshal or his deputies, rural free delivery mail carriers in the discharge of their duties as such, bonded constables in the discharge of their duties as such, conductors, railway mail clerks and express messengers in the discharge of their duties

. -

See more at: http://codes.findlaw.com/al/title-13....fJBEeIUV.dpuf

http://www.ago.state.al.us/File-Alabama-Weapon-Laws

[DaleA]

From our perspective it seems like it might be helpful to know what (if any) laws prevented the terrorist from walking into the mall with a firearm.

Good point.

I too wondered why the guy didn't use a firearm. I mean it's not that hard to buy a rifle or a shotgun in Minnesota. (Although for an AR or a handgun I believe you'd need a 'permit to purchase' which requires a criminal check and takes about three weeks.)

I will also chime in with praise for Jason Falconer the guy who stopped the attack.

[Double Naught Spy]

Malls are full of things that can be used an improvised weapons, but too few people have the mindset to take advantage of these.

[Old Bill Dibble]

Stabbing attacks are becoming more popular with Palestinian Islamic Terrorists. There have been a spate of them in Israel.

Monkey see - Monkey do.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6787036.html

[shafter]

It should be noted that it was not just a "good guy with a gun" but a "good guy with a gun with GOOD TRAINING" that took the Islamic Terrorist down.

This guy had FAR more training than the average CCW holder. Not that this particular scenario seems to be as complicated as others we've seen lately.

Maybe, but many cops train far less than a firearms enthusiast. Unless the cop himself is a firearms enthusiast. I would bet that most here who shoot at least once a month could shoot better than 75% of cops out there. I know this from experience.

I wouldn't consider what most gun enthusiasts do at the range "training". They shoot a lot and many are quite good shots but they aren't training.

America is a nation of gun owners but most of those guns are in safes, in closets, and under beds at any given moment. I would venture to guess that even most permit holders don't carry regularly. Of those that do far too many are fat, out of shape, carry a mouse gun and fire one or two boxes a year through it. Go to a gun shop or public range and observe the average gun owner.

If malls took down the no-gun signs it wouldn't make them very much safer except for the individual who is armed and trained. A terrorist wouldn't likely walk into a wall of gunfire from a mass of armed citizens.

[357 Python]

I read an article today that the officer is a part-time officer who operates a firearm training facility. So he was not only a Police Officer but also a Firearms Instructor. So sorry he had to put his training to use but so glad he was there to do so. Perhaps the law will catch up to these terrorists and the judges will be forced to give them the justice that is truly deserved.

[Double Naught Spy]

America is a nation of gun owners but most of those guns are in safes, in closets, and under beds at any given moment. I would venture to guess that even most permit holders don't carry regularly. Of those that do far too many are fat, out of shape, carry a mouse gun and fire one or two boxes a year through it. Go to a gun shop or public range and observe the average gun owner.

Right.

Probably upwards of 80% or more don't carry on a daily basis. Even a lot of off duty cops don't carry if they are not required to do so.

Don't confuse weight with ability to shoot. After all, the cop in question wasn't exactly svelt. https://www.conservativereview.com/c...cloud-jihadist I have shot with plenty of large people who are very good shooters. They often have the benefit of recoil having less of an impact on their ability to shoot.

If you go to a gun range, you probably aren't going to see many of the average gun owners. You will see the enthusiasts and the newbs for the most part, which are the polar extremes. They tend not to be on gun forums either.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The lack of most have training has been used against the concept of shall issue carry for quite a long time. It has also been used against campus carry.

Since the hero was a LEO with significant training and ability, if you just say 'good guy with a gun', I might ask you (if I were challenging that view) whether you had the due diligence to be competent?

Most would say that they have not. As far as weight - get old - I'm an a confirmed competitor and we old folks are accurate as all get out. Can we run to the targets fast - NO. Do we miss as much as some new guys running full speed - NO.