Pietta 1858 NMA question

rem1858 · January 5, 2011, 09:36 PM

Okay fellows;

What is the difference between a Pietta 1858 NMA and an 1858 ?

Ordered a couple extra cylinders and they arrived today but they are too long.

My cylinder has casting above the cylinder mouth where the retaining rod holds the cylinder into the frame.

The cylinders that came do not have that and the cylinders are longer so to speek.

Visual...
New cylinders are flush across the cylinder mouth.
My cylinder has extra metal sticking above the cylinder in the middle where the rod slides through.

Therefor the new cylinders will not fit cause they hit the barrel going in.

Looks like I will have to purchase another pistol to be able to use these cylinders

Clarence

rem1858 · January 5, 2011, 10:11 PM

left one is my cylinder
right one is the new cylinder
2011_0105cp0001.jpg

Clarence

Dr. Strangelove · January 5, 2011, 10:20 PM

How long have you had your 1858? My Pietta 1858 uses the cylinder you describe as the "new" one. I bought it from Cabela's in 1991.

noelf2 · January 5, 2011, 10:29 PM

You must have an older Pietta. The pic shows that the slots in the cylinder for the bolt head are wider in the newer cylinder as well. Older Pietta 58's had narrower slots for the bolt head to lock into.

rem1858 · January 5, 2011, 10:34 PM

I picked it up at a gun show a couple moths ago used.

Here is the serial number if anyone knows how to date a Pietta.
Ser# 127494

Has an 8" octigon barrel with target sights and blued.

Thanks;
Clarence

denster · January 5, 2011, 10:46 PM

That protrusion on the cylinder for your gun is a gas ring. It's purpose is to keep powder fouling from getting between the cylinder and base pin and binding things up. It is not a part of the Remington design and Pietta has never incorporated it in their reproductions.

It would be useful to see photos of your gun with the cylinder installed.

This is just speculation but some target shooters that use the Remington platform have had their guns modified by installing a custom barrel that is threaded further back into the frame. The cylinder is then faced off to incorporate a gas ring. This keeps the guns running longer and the reduced powder capacity is not a factor for competition shooters who use light loads anyway.

As to dating your gun there should be a square box with two letters inside it. Those letters are the date proof code. If you post those we can tell you the date it was made.

If my speculation is correct and all other dimensions are the same you could have a machinist face off your new cylinders to match the one from your gun and be good to go.

napp · January 5, 2011, 11:56 PM

I just checked my 1858 NMA that was bought new from Cabela's last month. The original cylinder that came in it appears to be identical to the new cylinders that were delivered to you.

Denster may be correct in that a previous owner might have had the cylinder face machined for a deeper set barrel.

Noelf2 might also be correct about the different sizes in the grooves cut into the cylinder for the bolt head. I honestly can't tell from your photos. If the grooves are different, it would make no sense to machine the new cylinder face to match your old cylinder.

rem1858 · January 6, 2011, 12:51 AM

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rem1858 · January 6, 2011, 12:53 AM

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rem1858 · January 6, 2011, 12:55 AM

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rem1858 · January 6, 2011, 12:56 AM

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rem1858 · January 6, 2011, 12:57 AM

2011_0105cp0016.jpg

Thanks for looking;

Clarence

denster · January 6, 2011, 01:33 AM

Allrighty then. The BA code makes it 1991 production. Appears to be a factory barrel that has been set back. The cylinder has been shortened and a separate gas ring bushing set in similar to Colt SAA. The nipple recesses have been opened up to facilitate a capper. The bolt notches have been enlongated probably part of deepening them. It's hard to tell from the photos but it appears that the bolt notches on the guns cylinder are a few degrees offset from the factory cylinder. That may be an illusion due to the nipple recesses being opened up on the guns cylinder.
For certain your gun has been extensivley smithed. Maybe not a bad thing. How does it shoot?

Doc Hoy · January 6, 2011, 02:24 AM

Looks like the barrel has been worked too. Note that the factory engraving is very weak and the angles between the flats are not very crisp. Sometimes that engraving/stamping on pistols is less than perfect from the factory, but this one appears to have been refinished.

BTW for Rem1858 I do recommend you get another pistol. I recommend an 1860 Colt. Your Remington cylinders won't fit in that either so you will have a good reason to go get a Dragoon. I must admit that I make use of a different strategy. When the odometer in the car passes an even thousand miles, it is time for another pistol. Somethimes the neighbor helps out by letting me celebrate his odometer passing an even thousand.

mykeal · January 6, 2011, 08:08 AM

It's a parts gun. None of the serial numbers match.

madcratebuilder · January 6, 2011, 08:20 AM

I agree with denster on the smithing work. Appears to have been re-blued also. A good smith should be able to duplicate the gas ring and bolt notches on your new cylinders. The bolt notches do look offset to me compared to the new cylinders.

denster · January 6, 2011, 11:03 AM

I'm rethinking that the notches may be offset after looking at the photos again. There would be no good reason to do that and it would entail a lot of modifications for no good reason. When you photograph a details on a round object rotating it even a little will create an illusion that the details are in a different location. Easy to check by just laying a straight edge along one side of the notch on the old and new cylinder and see if it bisects the nipple in the same location.
It may have been made from parts from different guns but someone put a lot of thought into it and it was purpose built, probably for competition. Makeing the gas ring a separate bushing makes it easy to accomodate for eventual wear.
If you got it for a fair price and it locks up well and the chambers align with the bore you may have gotten a bargain and a good shooter. Let us know.

freedom475 · January 6, 2011, 11:17 AM

Your new cylinder is of the new style with the wider notches.. and your old one is the old style with the narrow notches... I have both and it is fairly obvious when I put them together... Yes yours has additional mods ..but even before the mods, the cylinders are from two different Pietta eras.

My vote is to buy a new Cabelas 58...they are on sale right now for $199... you already have the cylinders....Not like you could come up with a better excuse to buy a new one

denster · January 6, 2011, 11:38 AM

Wes makes a good point. Good excuses to buy a new gun don't come along that often.

Dr. Strangelove · January 6, 2011, 11:42 AM

That's what I was thinking, by the time you pay someone to modify those cylinders, you could have bought a new pistol and probably saved money.

rem1858 · January 6, 2011, 09:29 PM

Using a straight edge, the cylinder notches are not off set.

My cylinder notch is .135"
New cylinder notch is .155"

So is this just an older Pietta ?

Did someone take a newer Pietta and modified it ?

Just an observation, but my cylinder mouth is not chamfered and the two new cylinders are.

When I first got this Pietta, I fired one handed at 20yds using a Pyro P 30gr pellet and .454" balls.
All 6 shots touched each other.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Looks like I will have to get me a new Pietta 1858 to go along with my spare cylinders

Only a few months into cap and ball and have an unknown Pietta 1858 New Army, an Uberti Colt Walker, a Ruger Old Army and soon to be newer Pietta 1858

Clarence

napp · January 6, 2011, 10:39 PM

If it shoots that well, I don't think you need to worry about what it is, or how old it is. Apparently, the previous owner knew what he was doing.

It's time to move on to bigger and better questions, now. Such as where to find a new frame for those poor homeless cylinders.

Hellgate · January 6, 2011, 11:13 PM

When I looked into having gas rings installed on my Uberti Remingtons the smith said they drill out a short recess in the front of the cylinder where the pin enters and insert the ring that sticks out beyond the cylinder face. Then he said they machine away some of the frame under the barrel to allow the gas ring to fit. Not a whole lot of work like setting the barrel back and machining the cylinder shorter. The gun under discussion may well be one of those extensively modified guns for N/SSA competition built for accuracy.

HisSoldier · January 6, 2011, 11:41 PM

I ordered a new cylinder for my Pietta stainless 1858 and it also had the wider notches, really kind of a shame. If anyone out there has an extra older cylinder for a Pietta, stainless or blue, and needs a newer cylinder I hereby propose a swap.

denster · January 6, 2011, 11:49 PM

Clarence

With a gun that shoots that well treasure it and don't worry about spare cylinders.

January 5, 2011, 09:36 PM	#1
rem1858 Member Join Date: December 12, 2010 Location: Surrounded by pines in Wi. Posts: 97	Pietta 1858 NMA question Okay fellows; What is the difference between a Pietta 1858 NMA and an 1858 ? Ordered a couple extra cylinders and they arrived today but they are too long. My cylinder has casting above the cylinder mouth where the retaining rod holds the cylinder into the frame. The cylinders that came do not have that and the cylinders are longer so to speek. Visual... New cylinders are flush across the cylinder mouth. My cylinder has extra metal sticking above the cylinder in the middle where the rod slides through. Therefor the new cylinders will not fit cause they hit the barrel going in. Looks like I will have to purchase another pistol to be able to use these cylinders Clarence __________________ B.E. Master indoor and out Distinguished Revolver Badge #99

January 5, 2011, 10:11 PM	#2
rem1858 Member Join Date: December 12, 2010 Location: Surrounded by pines in Wi. Posts: 97	pic's left one is my cylinder right one is the new cylinder 2011_0105cp0001.jpg Clarence __________________ B.E. Master indoor and out Distinguished Revolver Badge #99

January 5, 2011, 10:29 PM	#4
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	You must have an older Pietta. The pic shows that the slots in the cylinder for the bolt head are wider in the newer cylinder as well. Older Pietta 58's had narrower slots for the bolt head to lock into. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

January 5, 2011, 10:34 PM	#5
rem1858 Member Join Date: December 12, 2010 Location: Surrounded by pines in Wi. Posts: 97	I picked it up at a gun show a couple moths ago used. Here is the serial number if anyone knows how to date a Pietta. Ser# 127494 Has an 8" octigon barrel with target sights and blued. Thanks; Clarence __________________ B.E. Master indoor and out Distinguished Revolver Badge #99

January 5, 2011, 11:56 PM	#7
napp Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2010 Location: Georgia Posts: 152	I just checked my 1858 NMA that was bought new from Cabela's last month. The original cylinder that came in it appears to be identical to the new cylinders that were delivered to you. Denster may be correct in that a previous owner might have had the cylinder face machined for a deeper set barrel. Noelf2 might also be correct about the different sizes in the grooves cut into the cylinder for the bolt head. I honestly can't tell from your photos. If the grooves are different, it would make no sense to machine the new cylinder face to match your old cylinder. __________________ napp

January 5, 2011, 10:20 PM	#3
Dr. Strangelove Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2008 Location: Athens, GA Posts: 1,436	How long have you had your 1858? My Pietta 1858 uses the cylinder you describe as the "new" one. I bought it from Cabela's in 1991.

January 5, 2011, 10:46 PM	#6
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	That protrusion on the cylinder for your gun is a gas ring. It's purpose is to keep powder fouling from getting between the cylinder and base pin and binding things up. It is not a part of the Remington design and Pietta has never incorporated it in their reproductions. It would be useful to see photos of your gun with the cylinder installed. This is just speculation but some target shooters that use the Remington platform have had their guns modified by installing a custom barrel that is threaded further back into the frame. The cylinder is then faced off to incorporate a gas ring. This keeps the guns running longer and the reduced powder capacity is not a factor for competition shooters who use light loads anyway. As to dating your gun there should be a square box with two letters inside it. Those letters are the date proof code. If you post those we can tell you the date it was made. If my speculation is correct and all other dimensions are the same you could have a machinist face off your new cylinders to match the one from your gun and be good to go.

January 6, 2011, 12:51 AM	#8
rem1858 Member Join Date: December 12, 2010 Location: Surrounded by pines in Wi. Posts: 97	some more close ups 2011_0105cp0002.jpg 2011_0105cp0005.jpg 2011_0105cp0006.jpg __________________ B.E. Master indoor and out Distinguished Revolver Badge #99

January 6, 2011, 12:53 AM	#9
rem1858 Member Join Date: December 12, 2010 Location: Surrounded by pines in Wi. Posts: 97	some more 2011_0105cp0007.jpg 2011_0105cp0008.jpg 2011_0105cp0009.jpg __________________ B.E. Master indoor and out Distinguished Revolver Badge #99

January 6, 2011, 12:55 AM	#10
rem1858 Member Join Date: December 12, 2010 Location: Surrounded by pines in Wi. Posts: 97	some more 2011_0105cp0010.jpg 2011_0105cp0011.jpg 2011_0105cp0012.jpg __________________ B.E. Master indoor and out Distinguished Revolver Badge #99

January 6, 2011, 12:56 AM	#11
rem1858 Member Join Date: December 12, 2010 Location: Surrounded by pines in Wi. Posts: 97	some more 2011_0105cp0013.jpg 2011_0105cp0014.jpg 2011_0105cp0015.jpg __________________ B.E. Master indoor and out Distinguished Revolver Badge #99

January 6, 2011, 12:57 AM	#12
rem1858 Member Join Date: December 12, 2010 Location: Surrounded by pines in Wi. Posts: 97	one last 2011_0105cp0016.jpg Thanks for looking; Clarence __________________ B.E. Master indoor and out Distinguished Revolver Badge #99

January 6, 2011, 01:33 AM	#13
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	Allrighty then. The BA code makes it 1991 production. Appears to be a factory barrel that has been set back. The cylinder has been shortened and a separate gas ring bushing set in similar to Colt SAA. The nipple recesses have been opened up to facilitate a capper. The bolt notches have been enlongated probably part of deepening them. It's hard to tell from the photos but it appears that the bolt notches on the guns cylinder are a few degrees offset from the factory cylinder. That may be an illusion due to the nipple recesses being opened up on the guns cylinder. For certain your gun has been extensivley smithed. Maybe not a bad thing. How does it shoot?

January 6, 2011, 02:24 AM	#14
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Denster Looks like the barrel has been worked too. Note that the factory engraving is very weak and the angles between the flats are not very crisp. Sometimes that engraving/stamping on pistols is less than perfect from the factory, but this one appears to have been refinished. BTW for Rem1858 I do recommend you get another pistol. I recommend an 1860 Colt. Your Remington cylinders won't fit in that either so you will have a good reason to go get a Dragoon. I must admit that I make use of a different strategy. When the odometer in the car passes an even thousand miles, it is time for another pistol. Somethimes the neighbor helps out by letting me celebrate his odometer passing an even thousand. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 6, 2011, 08:08 AM	#15
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	It's a parts gun. None of the serial numbers match.

January 6, 2011, 08:20 AM	#16
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	I agree with denster on the smithing work. Appears to have been re-blued also. A good smith should be able to duplicate the gas ring and bolt notches on your new cylinders. The bolt notches do look offset to me compared to the new cylinders. Last edited by madcratebuilder; January 6, 2011 at 08:26 AM.

January 6, 2011, 11:03 AM	#17
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	I'm rethinking that the notches may be offset after looking at the photos again. There would be no good reason to do that and it would entail a lot of modifications for no good reason. When you photograph a details on a round object rotating it even a little will create an illusion that the details are in a different location. Easy to check by just laying a straight edge along one side of the notch on the old and new cylinder and see if it bisects the nipple in the same location. It may have been made from parts from different guns but someone put a lot of thought into it and it was purpose built, probably for competition. Makeing the gas ring a separate bushing makes it easy to accomodate for eventual wear. If you got it for a fair price and it locks up well and the chambers align with the bore you may have gotten a bargain and a good shooter. Let us know.

January 6, 2011, 11:17 AM	#18
freedom475 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2008 Location: Rocky Mountains of Montana Posts: 292	Your new cylinder is of the new style with the wider notches.. and your old one is the old style with the narrow notches... I have both and it is fairly obvious when I put them together... Yes yours has additional mods ..but even before the mods, the cylinders are from two different Pietta eras. My vote is to buy a new Cabelas 58...they are on sale right now for $199... you already have the cylinders....Not like you could come up with a better excuse to buy a new one __________________ Maker of Horse Tack and Cowboy Gear. www.7xleather.com Mister, why do you carry a 45? "Cause Sam Colt don't make a 46."

January 6, 2011, 11:38 AM	#19
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	Wes makes a good point. Good excuses to buy a new gun don't come along that often.

January 6, 2011, 11:42 AM	#20
Dr. Strangelove Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2008 Location: Athens, GA Posts: 1,436	That's what I was thinking, by the time you pay someone to modify those cylinders, you could have bought a new pistol and probably saved money.

January 6, 2011, 09:29 PM	#21
rem1858 Member Join Date: December 12, 2010 Location: Surrounded by pines in Wi. Posts: 97	Using a straight edge, the cylinder notches are not off set. My cylinder notch is .135" New cylinder notch is .155" So is this just an older Pietta ? Did someone take a newer Pietta and modified it ? Just an observation, but my cylinder mouth is not chamfered and the two new cylinders are. When I first got this Pietta, I fired one handed at 20yds using a Pyro P 30gr pellet and .454" balls. All 6 shots touched each other. Thanks everyone for your input. Looks like I will have to get me a new Pietta 1858 to go along with my spare cylinders Only a few months into cap and ball and have an unknown Pietta 1858 New Army, an Uberti Colt Walker, a Ruger Old Army and soon to be newer Pietta 1858 Clarence __________________ B.E. Master indoor and out Distinguished Revolver Badge #99

January 6, 2011, 10:39 PM	#22
napp Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2010 Location: Georgia Posts: 152	rem 1858 If it shoots that well, I don't think you need to worry about what it is, or how old it is. Apparently, the previous owner knew what he was doing. It's time to move on to bigger and better questions, now. Such as where to find a new frame for those poor homeless cylinders. __________________ napp

January 6, 2011, 11:13 PM	#23
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	When I looked into having gas rings installed on my Uberti Remingtons the smith said they drill out a short recess in the front of the cylinder where the pin enters and insert the ring that sticks out beyond the cylinder face. Then he said they machine away some of the frame under the barrel to allow the gas ring to fit. Not a whole lot of work like setting the barrel back and machining the cylinder shorter. The gun under discussion may well be one of those extensively modified guns for N/SSA competition built for accuracy. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

January 6, 2011, 11:41 PM	#24
HisSoldier Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2007 Location: Oregoncoast Posts: 1,793	I ordered a new cylinder for my Pietta stainless 1858 and it also had the wider notches, really kind of a shame. If anyone out there has an extra older cylinder for a Pietta, stainless or blue, and needs a newer cylinder I hereby propose a swap. __________________ CNC produced 416 stainless triggers to replace the plastic triggers on Colt Mustangs, Mustang Plus II's, MK IV Government .380's and Sig P238's and P938's. Plus Colt Mustang hardened 416 guide rods, and Llama .32 and .380 recoil spring buttons, checkered nicely and blued.

January 6, 2011, 11:49 PM	#25
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	Clarence With a gun that shoots that well treasure it and don't worry about spare cylinders.