Feinstein uses Navy Yard shooting to call for more gun control.

[BarryLee]

If the system we have is not utilized, what good does adding to the system do?

Yes, our political leaders are quick to make laws, but for some reason slow to actually enforce them. I realize it isn’t always the exact same person making the enforcement decisions, but as Mike said it is a systemic failure. A better idea would be far fewer gun laws with better enforcement.

[Tom Servo]

Multiple sources now claim Alexis only had a shotgun, and the other weapons were taken from Navy Yard security.

In 2005, a man named Brian Nichols was on trial in Atlanta. While being led to the courtroom, he overpowered a guard, took her gun, and went on a shooting rampage. There were calls for gun control over that.

Alexis had two prior incidents in which he fired guns in anger. In one, he shot through the roof of his apartment after complaining that his upstairs neighbor was too loud. No charges were filed.

In the second, he claims to have "blacked out" with rage at his neighbor's method of parking, and he shot the tires out of the neighbor's car (incident report at the link). No charges were filed in that case.

In neither case was a review of Alexis' mental health called for. This wasn't the fault of the NRA or the "gun culture." It was the fault of a criminal justice system that refuses to do its job.

If Feinstein wants to talk about that, I'm willing to listen. If she wants to talk about the fact that the men convicted of straw-purchasing dozens of weapons in the Fast & Furious operation were sentenced to an average of four years for their parts in Brian Terry's murder, I'll listen.

She might have had the political support to get more restrictions passed in March. She doesn't have it now.

[MLeake]

Link to a PJMedia essay on "shelter in place," "gun free zones," and Second Amendment protections: http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2013/09...uck-and-cover/

[thallub]

Yep, Feinstein is at it again.


Alexis had eight (8) article 15s in one four year enlistment. He should have been canned with a bad conduct discharge. At the very least his clearance should have been pulled. i revoked the security clearances of several dopers, drunks and discipline cases.

IMO: It's time to look at the officers in Alexis' chain of command.

[tyme]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ngton/2824793/

Note the "law-enforcement style shotgun" reference. I threw up a little. Is Feinstein going to go after semi-auto "assault shotguns" now?

As in many of these mass shootings, the shooter came to the attention of mental health professionals and they apparently didn't help him. A federal official is cited as stating that Alexis sought help for mental problems about a month ago.

But no, let's not talk about the failure of the mental health establishment.

[MLeake]

Feinstein is now claiming that universal background checks would have prevented this.

Even though charges were dropped in the civilian incidents, and even though Alexis was allowed to leave active duty with an honorable discharge and an intact secret clearance; even though the only way background checks MIGHT have worked would have been if the VA had authority and time to report mental issues to NICS...

The woman lies. The press - with few exceptions - does not call her out.

Jay Carney and Chuck Schumer are already singing chorus line for the diva, though.

(Edit: As Feinstein made her claims to the press, she lamented that she was sure opponents of her initiative would try to buttonhole her at the hair salon. You can't make this stuff up...)

In case you think I am making it up: http://o.dailycaller.com/thedailycal...f5d9d0217be3/2[

[Tom Servo]

Jay Carney and Chuck Schumer are already singing chorus line for the diva, though.

That sparked a visual image in my head which I did not need. Thanks for that

The question is, can they get anything done. Sandy Hook was the brass ring, and they had the wind at their backs. They couldn't get anything done then. The chances of it happening in the wake of last week's Colorado recalls are pretty much nil.

Bloomberg's money isn't the shield he promised to politicians. It doesn't make Feinstein and Schumer's statements any less odious, but it doesn't worry me too much either.

[csmsss]

What it comes down to is essentially this - the grabbers want to disarm law-abiding folks because we are unable to disarm criminals and violently mentally disturbed folks.

[tyme]

There's a dailymail (UK) article on the shotgun (allegedly a Remington 870) and the gun shop:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Virginia.html

He went through a background check, since he purchased from a FFL. Sorry, Senator, try again?

That article quotes officials as stating that Alexis sought treatment from the VA for paranoia, insomnia, and possibly schizophrenia.

It also quotes Dan Gross of the Brady Campaign stating that even though it's too early to know what policies might have prevented this tragedy, congress should pass comprehensive gun control measures. Mr. Gross also takes a dig at the NRA.

More gun control discussion at Politico:
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...900.html?hp=f2

[MLeake]

Tom Servo, the government types worry me less than their media allies do. Reporters and editorial boards rarely get "recalled."

[SIGSHR]

Let's see, he was a veteran which places him at the top of the Watch List.
Regarding his disciplinary record, I recall something Jeff Cooper said of his Marine Corps days:
"We didn't have Article 15s or courts-martial, we had NCOs."
Sounds like a serious leadership failure.

[Spats McGee]

Originally Posted by maestro pistolero

As per usual, not a word about the ongoing slaughter in our inner cities. Every four days the same number of deaths from the Newtown tragedy occurs in our inner cities in gang and drug related violence. . . .

Mostly true. I did, however, find one interesting article on CNN.com that strays from this norm.

Gun control is not the answer By LZ Granderson

From the article:

. . . . Gun shops are illegal in Chicago.

The city has bans on both assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. And yet each week people continue to die in the streets from gunshot wounds.

This conundrum is just one example why making note that more Americans have died from gun violence here at home since Newtown than in the nine years fighting a war in Iraq is the kind of factoid that grabs our attention but undermines the true goal: curtailing the violence. . . . .

[Tom Servo]

Pamela Brown from CNN is reporting that the ATF did not trace an AR-15 to Alexis, nor does he appear to have used one.

Piers? Got anything to retract? Piers? Piers?

[1hogfan83]

"Double Barrel" Biden said himself that a double barrel shotgun was much more controllable than an AR-15. Can someone hold him liable? I actually made it through 20 minutes of piers Morgan, I never heard the gun switch a roo though though.

[Revoltella]

Alexis had two prior incidents in which he fired guns in anger. In one, he shot through the roof of his apartment after complaining that his upstairs neighbor was too loud. No charges were filed.

She, his upstairs neighbor, said it was because her music was too loud. He said it was an AD while cleaning his gun. The police and prosecutor believed him. That's why no charges were filed.

[csmsss]

The police and prosecutor believed him. That's why no charges were filed.

Actually, the police referred the case to the prosecutor for charges. It was solely the prosecutor's decision not to file in the Ft. Worth case. And as for the prosecutor "believing him", well...there are all manner of reasons why prosecutors file and why they do not file charges.

Let's be honest - virtually ALL of these "gun cleaning" accidental/negligent discharge stories are just that - stories.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Liable isn't appropriate unless a AR-15 can sue for being insulted incorrectly. I don't think you can sue for being stupid.

If you could sue for stupid advice - that would take down the Internet.

BTW, there are plenty of real cleaning accidents. Not that they were not negligent but it happens and folks have died for it.

On the other hand, some suicides are set up to look like cleaning accidents.

[Webleymkv]

Let's review,

He shoots through his ceiling and into his neighbor's apartment. He claims it's a cleaning accident while the neighbor claims it was intentional.

I suppose I could have been generous enough to give him the benefit of the doubt in this case, though if the prosecutor really wanted to he could have probably charged him with something like reckless endangerment

He shoots out the tires of a neighbor's car claiming that he "blacked out" in a fit of rage.

Charges should have definitely been filed in this case. At the very least, property destruction and unlawful discharge of a firearm would be appropriate and, honestly, I don't think that assault with a deadly weapon would be inappropriate. Also, if his claim that he "blacked out" in a fit of rage was believed, then that should meet the legal definition of "a danger to self or others" to justify involuntary commitment to a psychiatric ward.

From what we've heard, he had multiple disciplinary actions taken against him and was forced out of the Navy yet still received an honorable discharge.

I'm not knowledgeable enough about military discipline to be able to comment on whether or not his disciplinary problems would have been severe enough to warrant a dishonorable discharge. However, I do know that a dishonorable discharge is comparable to a felony in that it makes one a prohibited person under the Gun Control Act of 1968.

According to several sources including CNN and the UK Daily Mail, the only weapon that was brought to the Navy Yard by the shooter was a shotgun, specifically a Remington 870 per the UK Daily Mail. All other weapons used appear to have been obtained from security/police that were shot on site. Furthermore, the shotgun was purchased from a dealer and the shooter presumably passed a NICS check to obtain it.

I don't recall seeing pump-action shotguns on any assault weapon ban lists. As a matter of fact, even under the NY SAFE Act which, which gun-control advocates proudly promote as the toughest in the nation, said shotgun would still be legal.

So, in review the shooter appears to have started his rampage with a gun that would still be legal even under Sen. Feinstein's AWB and any "assault weapons" used were obtained from the police/military, which even Sen. Feinstein isn't advocating disarming. Furthermore, we have at least one, if not two chargeable offences in the shooter's past as well as ample legal justification to involuntarily commit him and possibly severe enough discipline problems to warrant a dishonorable discharge from the Navy any one of which could have been used to place him on the prohibited persons list therefore denying him the ability to pass a NICS check.

So, it appears to me that neither the AWB nor the universal background checks that Sen. Feinstein wants could have prevented this incident since the shooter apparently passed a background check and did not, initially at least, use an assault weapon. Perhaps if Sen. Feinstein had waited to learn even a few of the facts, her comments wouldn't seem so asinine. Of course the facts seem to indicate that the blame for this incident lies in multiple failures to enforce existing laws rather than the need for new ones, but that doesn't fit Sen. Feinstein's agenda.

[1hogfan83]

"Holding liable" was for Biden and the AR has been overdone so much its starting to looking like a $2 steak. If what their saying is correct, and he stole the rifle from the base, would it not be an M4/16?

[Webleymkv]

Speaking of liability, I would be extremely interested in an explanation from the people who decided not to bring charges when he was arrested before, particularly in the incident where he shot out the tires. Now, I suspect I may already know the answer these questions, but I'll refrain from stating my theory unless more facts present themselves.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Why is it more important to regulate inanimate objects than to tackle the difficult but critical issue of how to prevent cases of mass homicidal ideation?

Tell me about.
Also, the idea that a politician should never let a good Tragedy go to waste really takes precedence over the families of the victims and what they are going through.

"Double Barrel" Biden said himself that a double barrel shotgun was much more controllable than an AR-15. Can someone hold him liable? I actually made it through 20 minutes of piers Morgan, I never heard the gun switch a roo though though.

The shotgun had me thinking too.
By the way Biden, hows that shotgun idea working out for you? Guess you need to step it up a notch huh?

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Media stirring the pot, Getting Obama to chyme in...

Asked later about whether the shooting would reignite his call for more gun control, Obama spokesman Jay Carney said the president was implementing executive actions and reiterated his commitment to strengthening gun laws, including expanding background checks to sales online and at gun shows. "The president supports, as do an overwhelming majority of Americans, common-sense measures to reduce gun violence," Carney said.

Read more: http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/09...#ixzz2fC4dptQi
Follow us: @ABC7News on Twitter | WJLATV on Facebook

from http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/09...ted-94098.html
Putting words in our mouths as well.

[MLeake]

Webleymkv,

Between Honorable and Dishonorable there are multiple levels.

General Discharge; Other Than Honorable Discharge; Bad Conduct Discharge (IIRC).

There is also an Administrative Separation, which is sort of a no harm, no foul deal, but IIRC that can only be done within the first 18 months of service. (Example: washing out of a training course during a RIF).

Honorable discharges qualify for full VA, GI Bill, and veteran's preference benefits. Other types lose privileges as one descends toward the DD.

Article 15s generally would not result in a DD, but could result in one of the other, lower than Honorable types.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Reid said no gun control - not enough votes.

There is a case out where someone claimed Biden's advice made him do it - but that didn't fly.

I think we discussed it.

About warning signs:

1. FBI higher ups ignore 9/11 pilot training warning
2. VT ignores Cho who is reported
3. Amy Bishop kills her brother and punches out mom in IHOP
4. FBI ignores Boston bomber - not enough info - even with NSA monitoring the universe.
5. Ex-major Hassan's warning signs ignored.
6. Kip Kingle's parents buy a disturbed young man a Glock
7. Columbine parents - clueless.

What else is new?

[MLeake]

Glenn, don't sell the government short on the Tsarnaevs. Forget NSA monitoring, the government ignored warnings from the Russians about them; the government ignored warnings from the Saudis about them. No NSA trolling was required.

In the face of those warnings, the feds did nothing, and the state of Massachusetts provided something on the lines of $100k in benefits (over a period of years) to the Tsarnaevs.

But limiting the size of the magazine on any firearm for which they would want a background check if I gave it to my same-state father-in-law, that would keep us safe...