Matallurgy Report For Pardner Pump

Dreaming100Straight · November 15, 2013, 10:41 PM

I would like to verify the existence and substance of a mettalurgical report on the steel of the H&R Pardner Pump. The purpose of this thread is not to discuss the pros and cons of the Pardner Pump, but only to track down the alleged report.

This report is the one that someone with the user name MAX100 posted about on several message boards a few years ago. http://survival.com/IVB/index.php?showtopic=5542

The article to which MAX100 pointed was written by someone who claimed that his father was a member of the Stahl family and that he had subjected two Pardner Pumps to a mettalurgical test.

Other than that the message boards are full of posts referring to a metallurgy test, but I am not convinced that there ever was any such test and that the one posted about only exists in rumor.

I do not wish to get in to the posts made regarding alleged difficulties reported on some internet message boards regarding MAX100 and his business manufacturing magazine extensions for the Pardner Protector.

Please post if you know where that test can be found.

Dreaming100Straight · November 17, 2013, 01:04 AM

No one knows where to find this metallurgical report? I am beginning to think that may be because there never was one.

Slopemeno · November 17, 2013, 11:47 AM

I assume you have this?
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-307967.html

sounds pretty bs-y to me.

Dreaming100Straight · November 17, 2013, 12:28 PM

I have seen that and it is the best documentation that a metallurgical report comparing the 870 and the H&R Pardner Protector was ever done.

I am trying to verify that such a test exists other than in the mind of the author of that "article". A few things about it.

I followed the link and could not get the article.

That exact post was placed by MAX100 on several gun boards.

MAX100's credibility has been brought in doubt by some allegations. See http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15929254

- Because he both sold Pardner Pumps AND manufactured and sold magazine extensions for them he had everything to gain financially from the guns promotion.

- Allegations found on Glocktalk and elsewhere amount to claims that MAX100 scammed many. He took the money for extensions, kept it, and didn't provide the product. There was some talk about contacting local law enforcement regarding this but I don't know if that ever happened or if any crime was involved.

I have been unable to confirm the existence of the "Stahl family" mentioned in the "article".

semi_problomatic · November 17, 2013, 02:00 PM

You goingto find one for remington, mossberg, stoeger, and cz as well? Or are you just looking to buy a pardner pump?

Dreaming100Straight · November 17, 2013, 02:46 PM

See if you can find the one promoted by MAX100 or any metallurgical report comparing the 870 steel to the Pardner Protector. Especailly am looking for the report some claim says that the Pardner Protector's steel is better quality than the 870's steel. Even the report pushed by MAX100 doesn't say that, but I think that may be the one that some gullible types swallowed hook, line, and sinker.

Quote:

in some ways the NEF PP had superior metal parts/fit and finish when compared to the Remington 870 Express. He said the metal used in the receiver was considered better quality in the NEF but countered by saying the barrel steel used in the Remington 870 was of better quality. He also stated that these differences were so small that in the end game it did not matter one iota.

It is difficult to find a report that doesn't exist.

semi_problomatic · November 17, 2013, 04:16 PM

I think someone is on a pointless crusade to prove themselves right. So are you just going to single out the pardner pump or are you doing this for all shotguns?

Also, are you doing it for all the components of the shotgun or just the reciever steel. One could easily pull up the rest of the specs on like model shotguns. Say...the make of extractors, trigger gaurds, lifter design...

semi_problomatic · November 17, 2013, 08:51 PM

Here is a seperate, though not extensive "test".

Then that stopped and the clones got cheaper than the real thing. So I picked one up just to experiment with, several years ago. I took it and an 870 Express to my gunsmith, and we field stripped both and went over them part by part. He file tested the steel in both guns and indicated that in some cases there seemed to be better metal in the Norinco. Fit and finish were about even as both guns were bought used and had been used some more.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-729479.html

I'm not sure why you're obsessing over a test of 1. Such a test wouldn't conclude or mean anything simply because the samples are too small to take any conclusive data from.

One thing that really makes the max100 repost questionable is the bit about the barrels. I believe the barrels are american made, as the PP's are shipped without barrels and the barrels on the PP have the remington (REP) proof mark. So unless remington is using them as a way to dump off spec barrels without tarnishing their good name, it doesn't make much sense for the 870's barrel to be slightly better than the PP's barrel when they came from the same plant...

SoilworK777 · November 18, 2013, 01:38 PM

semi_problomatic

Quote:

file tested the steel in both guns and indicated that in some cases there seemed to be better metal in the Norinco

Do you recall in what specific areas of the gun the differences were found?

Would you think the same tests done to the PP would apply to the Hawk 982?

http://www.iacshotguns.com/982pump.html

semi_problomatic · November 18, 2013, 02:46 PM

That was a quote from the link I provided. A test of 1 sample doesn't really mean anything either way.

Glenn E. Meyer · November 18, 2013, 02:59 PM

Closed for obvious reasons.

Infractions to follow if need be.

Al Norris · November 18, 2013, 07:40 PM

Here's the deal.

There were two members who decided to hurl insults at each other. Those posts were deleted. I caught this as I was leaving to go back to work and asked another Staff if they would deal with it.

Folks, if you really need to lambast each other, do us all a favor and take it to PM (within reason), or better yet, to email. Airing your dirty laundry in public will get you nowhere except banned.

That's the reason for the thread closure.

November 15, 2013, 10:41 PM	#1
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Matallurgy Report For Pardner Pump I would like to verify the existence and substance of a mettalurgical report on the steel of the H&R Pardner Pump. The purpose of this thread is not to discuss the pros and cons of the Pardner Pump, but only to track down the alleged report. This report is the one that someone with the user name MAX100 posted about on several message boards a few years ago. http://survival.com/IVB/index.php?showtopic=5542 The article to which MAX100 pointed was written by someone who claimed that his father was a member of the Stahl family and that he had subjected two Pardner Pumps to a mettalurgical test. Other than that the message boards are full of posts referring to a metallurgy test, but I am not convinced that there ever was any such test and that the one posted about only exists in rumor. I do not wish to get in to the posts made regarding alleged difficulties reported on some internet message boards regarding MAX100 and his business manufacturing magazine extensions for the Pardner Protector. Please post if you know where that test can be found.

November 17, 2013, 02:00 PM	#5
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 883	You goingto find one for remington, mossberg, stoeger, and cz as well? Or are you just looking to buy a pardner pump? __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...

November 17, 2013, 04:16 PM	#7
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 883	I think someone is on a pointless crusade to prove themselves right. So are you just going to single out the pardner pump or are you doing this for all shotguns? Also, are you doing it for all the components of the shotgun or just the reciever steel. One could easily pull up the rest of the specs on like model shotguns. Say...the make of extractors, trigger gaurds, lifter design... __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...

November 17, 2013, 08:51 PM	#8
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 883	Here is a seperate, though not extensive "test". Then that stopped and the clones got cheaper than the real thing. So I picked one up just to experiment with, several years ago. I took it and an 870 Express to my gunsmith, and we field stripped both and went over them part by part. He file tested the steel in both guns and indicated that in some cases there seemed to be better metal in the Norinco. Fit and finish were about even as both guns were bought used and had been used some more. http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-729479.html I'm not sure why you're obsessing over a test of 1. Such a test wouldn't conclude or mean anything simply because the samples are too small to take any conclusive data from. One thing that really makes the max100 repost questionable is the bit about the barrels. I believe the barrels are american made, as the PP's are shipped without barrels and the barrels on the PP have the remington (REP) proof mark. So unless remington is using them as a way to dump off spec barrels without tarnishing their good name, it doesn't make much sense for the 870's barrel to be slightly better than the PP's barrel when they came from the same plant... __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...

November 18, 2013, 02:46 PM	#10
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 883	That was a quote from the link I provided. A test of 1 sample doesn't really mean anything either way. __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...

November 17, 2013, 01:04 AM	#2
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	No one knows where to find this metallurgical report? I am beginning to think that may be because there never was one.

November 17, 2013, 11:47 AM	#3
Slopemeno Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2007 Posts: 2,663	I assume you have this? http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-307967.html sounds pretty bs-y to me.

November 17, 2013, 12:28 PM	#4
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	I have seen that and it is the best documentation that a metallurgical report comparing the 870 and the H&R Pardner Protector was ever done. I am trying to verify that such a test exists other than in the mind of the author of that "article". A few things about it. I followed the link and could not get the article. That exact post was placed by MAX100 on several gun boards. MAX100's credibility has been brought in doubt by some allegations. See http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15929254 - Because he both sold Pardner Pumps AND manufactured and sold magazine extensions for them he had everything to gain financially from the guns promotion. - Allegations found on Glocktalk and elsewhere amount to claims that MAX100 scammed many. He took the money for extensions, kept it, and didn't provide the product. There was some talk about contacting local law enforcement regarding this but I don't know if that ever happened or if any crime was involved. I have been unable to confirm the existence of the "Stahl family" mentioned in the "article".

November 18, 2013, 02:59 PM	#11
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Closed for obvious reasons. Infractions to follow if need be. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

November 18, 2013, 07:40 PM	#12
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	Here's the deal. There were two members who decided to hurl insults at each other. Those posts were deleted. I caught this as I was leaving to go back to work and asked another Staff if they would deal with it. Folks, if you really need to lambast each other, do us all a favor and take it to PM (within reason), or better yet, to email. Airing your dirty laundry in public will get you nowhere except banned. That's the reason for the thread closure.