New TFL Server

Tom B · February 20, 2001, 06:43 AM

If this is the normal server operation then I am less than impressed! Forum/thread transfer times are terrible. This at 5:30AM. I suggest a proposal to the members to donate whatever is required in money from each to purchase,modify or do whatever is required to bring this equipment up to a level needed for its intended purpose. I like to read/post here so let me know and I will send the first check.Thanks.

TheBluesMan · February 20, 2001, 11:51 AM

Thanks for your offer of help, Tom.

You've been here a while, so you should know that TFL is usually very fast.

The slow-down you experienced may not have been with TFL's server. Have you checked your ISP, connection speed, Internet Weather Report, etc.?

That said, we have been experiencing some technical difficulties of late. The server seems to be up to speed now, though. Rest assured that Rich & Co. are working day and night to make sure you have a lightning-fast connection every time.

Tom B · February 20, 2001, 01:20 PM

No I have experienced this problem on both my home and work computers. Two different internet servers,etc...seems to happen most in the early mornings.

**Rich Lucibella** · February 20, 2001, 01:29 PM

Tom-
The slowdowns of late are due two two factors:
1) A major breakdown over the weekend (human induced)
2) The resources I've been hogging in the back room as I bring up the new version of the software.

Both these have been resolved as of an hour ago.

We do have a new server on order that should be in this week. Price: $5,000+ How much of a contribution did you have in mind?
Rich

Tom B · February 20, 2001, 05:24 PM

Well you have 8735 registered members so if only half donated that would be about $1.25 each. I will be glad to chip in $50. myself. Email or post the name and address and I will get a check in the mail tomorrow. I won't even ask for a Tom B forum or thread locking rights for the donation.

Gunslinger · February 20, 2001, 05:51 PM

With the number of servers available at little or, in some cases, no cost why does it require such large sums of money to operate TFL? I realize that TFL has grown to huge proportions and the size alone dictates dedicated software. However, even in it's infancy TFL has reputably been a large financial burden to bear. In those days, as one of the earlier members, I recall many of us "creating" topics in order to induce discussion and therefore "establish" a firearms board on the Internet. Even now that the volume is without question enormous I would still think that there would be other avenues to pursue that would not propose such an expense.

ArmySon · February 20, 2001, 06:58 PM

Keeping TFL free of advertisers allows us to choose our path, our own destiny. It allows TFL to take the high road.

**Rich Lucibella** · February 20, 2001, 07:32 PM

Tom-
I was only funnin' about the contribution, but we truly appreciate the offer.

Gunslinger-
Quick corrrection and long explanation comin'.

"Since it's infancy, TFL has been a large financial burden?" On who? When did you ever hear such complaints? Even now, we're not complaining about the server costs...it goes with the responsibility of the site. The only time we've ever brought up TFL costs is:
1) In response to direct questions such as Tom's
2) When individuals have attempted to use the bandwidth to promote personal products.
3) When individuals have attempted to use the TFL name, without our knowledge, to hawk vendors for discounts, gifts and kickbacks.

I know you like EZ Board for your site. EZ-Board is a fine system. And it's free, I know. But I've heard tales of sites as large as ours being forced to archive and delete old messages due to disk space limitations. I also hear that it experiences frequent slow downs. We've never liked the advertisements that come with less expensive alternatives (nor do the Members)....basically, I think you get what you pay for.

When it comes to TFL and similar sites, there are two costs:
Storage and Bandwidth.
Storage:
Our data files for the posts alone are over 200MB; add in Membership and sundry data files, programs, image files and room for backup and you're well over half a gig. (The old UBB flat files doubled that). Take that figure and check some of the Web host compaies like Verio: once you get above 100-200MB, you're into commercial rates.

Bandwidth
Last I checked (November), TFL was serving up 1.5 gigabytes of information every day! That's a lot of bandwidth...I've been told it's more than General Motors! I'm not sure if that's true but I'd love to compare us to Brownells, for instance. As I write, there are 90 distinct Members and 66 guests accessing TFL files. Their average time on the site is far greater than most commercial sites. Take that bandwidth number and shop around on the internet. I'd be interested if you find any real bargains.

Talk to Erick from Glocktalk about this...he's had to switch web host companies as often as his underwear, due to the success of his site. We even colocated on a dedicated server with him for a while....they bounced us off for excvessive use.

Talk to Spark from BladeForums. We were on his dedicated server for about the first eight months...he had to throw us off just to keep his own site up.

As for the new server, a Dell Poweredge 2450, we're purchasing this to avoid the storage fees talked about above. It also allows us to increase memory without saying "please". Finally, if you look at the specs, this is not exactly a PC. It comes with three separate hard drives and a system known as Raid5 for guaranteed disaster recovery.

Will it guarantee us a problem free future? I doubt it. But it will help us to continue to set the bar for others to follow.
Rich

Caeca Invidia Es · February 20, 2001, 07:32 PM

Rich, you beat me to it..... but I'm going to leave my post up anyway

Gunslinger, there are many many options available for dedicated server solutions. The problem with most of them is that it does not put the server under absolute control of TFL. Without owning the server yourself you are still subject to restrictions/obligations put forth by who ever does own it. Not to mention that they will always maintain the right to end your service without notice whenever they get the urge.

Rich's dedication to the forum requires that the forum and server remain absolutly in his control, and that is not cheap.

I for one and incredibly thankful to him for the time and money he has put into this forum.

HankL · February 20, 2001, 08:58 PM

Tom, You have been around here longer than I have and you should know the answers to all of the above. I have offered on several occasions to help with this or that and I assure you that I had a bit more than $50 in mind and have always been politely refused. Rich knows that I don't want to purchase influence and would like to help out but he is doing it because that is the way it is.

Best forum? You Know It!

**Rich Lucibella** · February 21, 2001, 04:56 PM

The CEO of EZ Board's ears musta been burning. He posted the following today at http://login.ezboard.com/fezboardfrm...picID=34.topic

Quote:

Recently, we have been beseiged by numerous problems. Some related to our server upgrades, some related to our ISP, and also just some bad luck.
[snip]

We understand how frustrating it is to not be able to connect with your community. We are doing our best to resolve these issues as fast as possible. We appreciate your continued patience and understanding.

Sincerely,
Vanchau and the ezboard team

Many of the EZ Boards are down sporadically, including Plainsman's at http://pub7.ezboard.com/bplainsmanscabin and Sandy's at http://pub2.ezboard.com/bpsychotalk
Rich

RWK · February 21, 2001, 05:58 PM

Rich,

We all honor your autonomy and desire to operate TFL without contributions. However, my checkbook is ready -- as are many others -- if you ever want it.

Regards.

deanf · February 21, 2001, 06:04 PM

Didn't we just get a new server? Like in the last 6 months?

**Rich Lucibella** · February 22, 2001, 12:37 AM

RWK-
Thanks. It's appreciated. You've been added to the list of "soft touches".

Dean-
Yup, we got a new, dedicated server. But we didn't own it; our web host company did. Then we spent a month trying to get the memory upgraded....because we didn't own it.

Now....we intend to own it!
Ricg

February 20, 2001, 01:29 PM	#4
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Tom- The slowdowns of late are due two two factors: 1) A major breakdown over the weekend (human induced) 2) The resources I've been hogging in the back room as I bring up the new version of the software. Both these have been resolved as of an hour ago. We do have a new server on order that should be in this week. Price: $5,000+ How much of a contribution did you have in mind? Rich __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

February 20, 2001, 07:32 PM	#8
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Tom- I was only funnin' about the contribution, but we truly appreciate the offer. Gunslinger- Quick corrrection and long explanation comin'. "Since it's infancy, TFL has been a large financial burden?" On who? When did you ever hear such complaints? Even now, we're not complaining about the server costs...it goes with the responsibility of the site. The only time we've ever brought up TFL costs is: 1) In response to direct questions such as Tom's 2) When individuals have attempted to use the bandwidth to promote personal products. 3) When individuals have attempted to use the TFL name, without our knowledge, to hawk vendors for discounts, gifts and kickbacks. I know you like EZ Board for your site. EZ-Board is a fine system. And it's free, I know. But I've heard tales of sites as large as ours being forced to archive and delete old messages due to disk space limitations. I also hear that it experiences frequent slow downs. We've never liked the advertisements that come with less expensive alternatives (nor do the Members)....basically, I think you get what you pay for. When it comes to TFL and similar sites, there are two costs: Storage and Bandwidth. Storage: Our data files for the posts alone are over 200MB; add in Membership and sundry data files, programs, image files and room for backup and you're well over half a gig. (The old UBB flat files doubled that). Take that figure and check some of the Web host compaies like Verio: once you get above 100-200MB, you're into commercial rates. Bandwidth Last I checked (November), TFL was serving up 1.5 gigabytes of information every day! That's a lot of bandwidth...I've been told it's more than General Motors! I'm not sure if that's true but I'd love to compare us to Brownells, for instance. As I write, there are 90 distinct Members and 66 guests accessing TFL files. Their average time on the site is far greater than most commercial sites. Take that bandwidth number and shop around on the internet. I'd be interested if you find any real bargains. Talk to Erick from Glocktalk about this...he's had to switch web host companies as often as his underwear, due to the success of his site. We even colocated on a dedicated server with him for a while....they bounced us off for excvessive use. Talk to Spark from BladeForums. We were on his dedicated server for about the first eight months...he had to throw us off just to keep his own site up. As for the new server, a Dell Poweredge 2450, we're purchasing this to avoid the storage fees talked about above. It also allows us to increase memory without saying "please". Finally, if you look at the specs, this is not exactly a PC. It comes with three separate hard drives and a system known as Raid5 for guaranteed disaster recovery. Will it guarantee us a problem free future? I doubt it. But it will help us to continue to set the bar for others to follow. Rich __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

February 20, 2001, 07:32 PM	#9
Caeca Invidia Es Staff Alumnus Join Date: November 18, 1999 Location: Earth Posts: 834	Rich, you beat me to it..... but I'm going to leave my post up anyway Gunslinger, there are many many options available for dedicated server solutions. The problem with most of them is that it does not put the server under absolute control of TFL. Without owning the server yourself you are still subject to restrictions/obligations put forth by who ever does own it. Not to mention that they will always maintain the right to end your service without notice whenever they get the urge. Rich's dedication to the forum requires that the forum and server remain absolutly in his control, and that is not cheap. I for one and incredibly thankful to him for the time and money he has put into this forum. __________________ MOLON LABE! I don't approve of political jokes, I've seen too many of them get elected.

February 20, 2001, 08:58 PM	#10
HankL Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: The Sunny South Posts: 2,174	Tom, You have been around here longer than I have and you should know the answers to all of the above. I have offered on several occasions to help with this or that and I assure you that I had a bit more than $50 in mind and have always been politely refused. Rich knows that I don't want to purchase influence and would like to help out but he is doing it because that is the way it is. Best forum? You Know It! __________________ Check 6

February 21, 2001, 06:04 PM	#13
deanf Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 1999 Location: N47º 12’ x W122º 10' Posts: 1,599	Didn't we just get a new server? Like in the last 6 months? __________________ I'm a constitutional fetishist. Airplane Pictures

February 20, 2001, 06:43 AM	#1
Tom B Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 1999 Location: GA Posts: 1,836	If this is the normal server operation then I am less than impressed! Forum/thread transfer times are terrible. This at 5:30AM. I suggest a proposal to the members to donate whatever is required in money from each to purchase,modify or do whatever is required to bring this equipment up to a level needed for its intended purpose. I like to read/post here so let me know and I will send the first check.Thanks.

February 20, 2001, 11:51 AM	#2
TheBluesMan Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 15, 1999 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,558	Thanks for your offer of help, Tom. You've been here a while, so you should know that TFL is usually very fast. The slow-down you experienced may not have been with TFL's server. Have you checked your ISP, connection speed, Internet Weather Report, etc.? That said, we have been experiencing some technical difficulties of late. The server seems to be up to speed now, though. Rest assured that Rich & Co. are working day and night to make sure you have a lightning-fast connection every time.

February 20, 2001, 01:20 PM	#3
Tom B Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 1999 Location: GA Posts: 1,836	No I have experienced this problem on both my home and work computers. Two different internet servers,etc...seems to happen most in the early mornings.

February 20, 2001, 05:24 PM	#5
Tom B Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 1999 Location: GA Posts: 1,836	Well you have 8735 registered members so if only half donated that would be about $1.25 each. I will be glad to chip in $50. myself. Email or post the name and address and I will get a check in the mail tomorrow. I won't even ask for a Tom B forum or thread locking rights for the donation.

February 20, 2001, 05:51 PM	#6
Gunslinger Junior member Join Date: January 5, 1999 Location: Springfield, Missouri Posts: 2,105	With the number of servers available at little or, in some cases, no cost why does it require such large sums of money to operate TFL? I realize that TFL has grown to huge proportions and the size alone dictates dedicated software. However, even in it's infancy TFL has reputably been a large financial burden to bear. In those days, as one of the earlier members, I recall many of us "creating" topics in order to induce discussion and therefore "establish" a firearms board on the Internet. Even now that the volume is without question enormous I would still think that there would be other avenues to pursue that would not propose such an expense.

February 20, 2001, 06:58 PM	#7
ArmySon Staff Alumnus Join Date: April 14, 2000 Posts: 2,926	Keeping TFL free of advertisers allows us to choose our path, our own destiny. It allows TFL to take the high road.

February 21, 2001, 05:58 PM	#12
RWK Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 1999 Location: Occupied Virginia Posts: 2,777	Rich, We all honor your autonomy and desire to operate TFL without contributions. However, my checkbook is ready -- as are many others -- if you ever want it. Regards.

February 22, 2001, 12:37 AM	#14
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	RWK- Thanks. It's appreciated. You've been added to the list of "soft touches". Dean- Yup, we got a new, dedicated server. But we didn't own it; our web host company did. Then we spent a month trying to get the memory upgraded....because we didn't own it. Now....we intend to own it! Ricg __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook