New IMR rifle powders.... gotta have:(

Clark · November 7, 2014, 12:15 PM

http://www.imrpowder.com/shotpist.html

IMR 4166™
IMR 4166
This fine, extruded propellant is the first in the series of Enduron Technology powders. The main features of the Enduron series are copper fouling eliminator, insensitivity to temperature changes, ideal loading density and being environmentally friendly. IMR 4166 is the perfect burn speed for cartridges like the 308 Win/7.62mm NATO, 22-250 Remington, 257 Roberts and dozens more. Positively, a versatile, match grade propellant.

IMR 4451™
IMR 4451
Another new Enduron extruded powder, IMR 4451, gives top performance in the venerable 30-06, 270 Winchester and 300 Winchester Short Magnum, to name just a few. This propellant is ideally suited for many, many mid-range burn speed cartridges. Simply scroll through the list of cartridges on the Hodgdon Reloading Data Center, and see how many of your favorite cartridges are covered with this fine powder. Once the shooter tries this one in that favorite cartridge, his search is over!

IMR 7977™
IMR 7977
The slowest burn rate Enduron Technology extruded powder is IMR 7977, and is a true magnum cartridge propellant. It yields outstanding performance in such cartridges as the 300 Winchester Magnum, 7mm Remington Magnum, 338 Lapua and a host of others. Loading density is perfect for magnums, nicely filling the case at maximum charges, contributing to superb uniformity and accuracy. The 7mm Remington Magnum “never had it so good”!

---------------------------

Why gotta have?
For me H4895 for the small cases and H4350 for the big cases gave me temp stability for hunting.
For break in, CFE is Copper reducing, but is miserable ball powder that is temp sensitive and hard to set off with small primers in a medium case.

But the new IMR stuff looks, on paper, like the best of both worlds.

Jim Watson · November 7, 2014, 12:45 PM

Yup, sounds like they are trying to compete with Hodgdon Extreme and Hodgdon CFE in one can.

Just because Hodgdon distributes several brands of powder does not mean the manufacturers are not competing for sales even if out of the same warehouse.

FrankenMauser · November 7, 2014, 02:54 PM

So, speaking of approximate burn rate and application, I'm guessing they're intended as 'replacements' for....

4166 = 4064
4451 = 4350
7977 = 7828

If it becomes readily available and is not stupidly priced, I may have to give the 4166 a shot.
I do also like 4350 in a few cartridges, but 30-35% of my powder is in that burn rate and I rarely shoot those cartridges. I really don't need to be adding yet another powder in a burn rate that I rarely use.

tobnpr · November 7, 2014, 04:15 PM

They don't say where 4451 is on the burn rate chart...

Between Varget, and 4350?

I tried IMR 4350 in my 7-08 a couple of days ago and as some suggested might happen, I did get a fairly substantial velocity bump (70 fps) over the H4350.

So many powders, so little range time

Idaho Spud · November 7, 2014, 05:33 PM

If they'd quit foolin' with these new powders maybe there'd be enough makin's for the stuff people really want.

RC20 · November 7, 2014, 08:30 PM

My feelings exactly

When I have enough of the old stuff then bring on the new!

Ain't happened yet, maybe part of why we are short?

chiefr · November 7, 2014, 11:13 PM

When I first started reloading, there were only 15 - 20 different powders out there. Now there must be over 50.
I quit trying many of the new ones because they could not out perform ones that have been around for 60 years are so.
Exception would be the super slow powders which redefined the term overbore cartridge and H Varget and Benchmark for target shooting.

Colorado Redneck · November 7, 2014, 11:42 PM

http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/

IMR 4166

SVO · November 8, 2014, 01:43 AM

I have to wonder if the 4166 is really a large lot of off-spec 4064. You know where they end up with a bunch of powder that they can't sell as 4064, so they re-write the specs and now have a new powder called 4166 to sell....

Just saying...

1stmar · November 8, 2014, 01:48 AM

I'm skeptical on cfe, anyone try it and actually notice a difference?

FrankenMauser · November 8, 2014, 02:57 AM

Quote:

I'm skeptical on cfe, anyone try it and actually notice a difference?

I have.

Difference noted: It's a hybrid powder - primarily a ball powder, with some small cut flakes mixed in.

In all seriousness, the rifle I bought the CFE 223 for has been giving me some major fits (it's a custom build), and I have not yet been able to fire a single shot. So, my experience thus-far is that it's a hybrid powder.

I have, however, read quite a few reputable reports that is performs as advertised... Not just preventing copper deposition, but even removing existing fouling.

Rimfire5 · November 8, 2014, 06:28 AM

I recently tried CFE in my CZ527 with a 1:9 twist with 52 and 53 grain bullets - the CZ's favorites. The CFE was as accurate as N133 and slightly more accurate than H335. I didn't notice any significant difference in clean up, though. CFE does take more powder per round to get the equivalent velocity.

I also tried it with 77 grain bullets in semi auto .223 with a 1:7 twist and it performed beautifully right up there with Varget and better than H4895 for accuracy. My .223 has issues with the fast powders like H335 and H322. The gas port apparently doesn't get enough gas to cycle the bolt completely with the faster powders but CFE performs just fine. In the semi, I did notice that the bolt assembly was cleaner with CFE.

I'm pleased enough with CFE to buy more of it, that is if I can find any.

Roughedge · November 8, 2014, 07:18 AM

I tried the CFE pistol and like it, but now I cant find it. I wish they would catch up on pistol powder and then work on the new stuff.

tobnpr · November 8, 2014, 07:57 PM

Quote:

It's a hybrid powder - primarily a ball powder, with some small cut flakes mixed in.

How in the world could something like that be metered accurately by volume?

mmb713 · November 8, 2014, 08:11 PM

The powder companies haven't filled the backlog of orders since Sandyhook. When that gets filled then bring out new product. We're nearly two years out and there are still no pistol powders on the shelves. I'm sick and tired of it.

trapper9260 · November 8, 2014, 08:16 PM

Why dose some of the powder comp. need to come up with something different when what they have works fine.Most of the powders sell fine and then they need to change to something different.I use 4064 alot and are they work on the do away with that now? or is that they are maken powder for the mil. and want us to start to use it.Just wondering.

Colorado Redneck · November 11, 2014, 10:30 PM

These guys are paid to come up with "improved" products to stay ahead of competition. An example of improved product is the Hodgdon Extreme Powders.

I have used many pounds of IMR4064, and it was the most accurate powder for my 22-250. However, the fired cases always had caked on soot that would trickle out as I processed the brass. Now I use Benchmark for 3 reasons:

1. Meters like water. Compared to 4064 it is night and day. 4064 I had to crunch my way through the powder charging process, and often the powder would bridge in the drop tube and after I removed the case then a few grains of powder would fall out.
2. Cleaner by far. When I was using 4064 I never believed the guys that said it was dirty. But experience showed they are right.
3. Is as accurate as 4064 in the 22-250 since it has a new barrel. Also, I can use Benchmark in the .204 Ruger with excellent results. Makes life simpler to use one powder for both guns.

So, IMO developing new products is good for the consumer.

SVTCobra306 · November 11, 2014, 11:41 PM

Looks like Hodgdon has it on their reloading data center already. I looked it up on 22-250 and .243, looks like it gives a little velocity bump compared to Varget. I might grab a pound if I stumble upon it, but I won't go out of my way for it. Right now I am stocking Varget in 8 lb size because I can use it across a variety of calibers without having to have multiple powders.

One "bonus" of the new powders coming out is that they are new and "cool" so they can relieve a little pressure off some of the old standby's. I wouldn't mind it if I could find IMR 4064 everywhere because of it being "outdated" lol.

ntg · December 18, 2014, 05:54 PM

Anyone played with these new powders yet?

reynolds357 · December 18, 2014, 10:31 PM

I would be happy if they would just quit screwing with 4350. Every time I buy it now; it looks different and shoots different.

9MMand223only · December 18, 2014, 10:58 PM

IMR 4166

I have a lot of the IMR4166.

Here is some testing with it.

This is all in an AR15, 20" barrel, 1:8 twist.

100 YARDS

Powder Load Bullet Brand Bullet Grain OAL Avg FPS Group Size
24.2 Sierra MK 69 2.253 0.45
24 Sierra MK 69 2.253 0.5
26 Nosler FB Tipped 55 2.253 0.546
26.2 Nosler FB Tipped 55 2.253 0.593
24.2 Sierra MK 69 2.253 0.599
25.5 Nosler FB Tipped 55 2.253 0.704
26.4 Nosler FB Tipped 55 2.253 0.777
24 Sierra MK 69 2.253 0.9
23.8 Sierra MK 69 2.253 0.905
23.5 Sierra MK 69 2.253 0.95

It is similar to VARGET in the way it meters and accuracy. I will do velocity testing on it in coming weeks probably.

The 69 grain bullet, with charge of 24.2 is insanely accurate, this compared to the very accuracte charge of 25.3 with the same bullet using VARGET.

Good powder, as you can see from the groups @ 100 yards. Its not going to get much better.

I have to test it at longer distances.

I do not understand who is running all these Powder companies lately? Why come out with 3 new rifle powders? Rifle powders are EASY to get, anyone can buy probably 100+ lbs anytime they want of a lot of choices.

However, there is no pistol powders available? makes no sense?

If anyone works at a powder company, may I please ask:

Please stop making rifle powders and make nothing but pistol powders until inventory is balanced out. ANyone can buy 48lbs of pretty much any rifle powder, on a monthly basis. But pistol? I have not even SEEN some of the good pistol powders in about 1-2 YEARS. And IMR just discountinued one of the most accurate pistol powders in the history of mankind? I heard? IMR4756? I do not understand the reasoning for all these new rifle powders. I don't get it. Pistol powders are in short supply, not rifle.

But hey, thanks for making IMR4166, its quite good. Pretty soon, I think its going to be a hit, and people will gobble it up like VARGET, because its pretty accurate.

Kosh75287 · December 18, 2014, 11:55 PM

But can ONE of them be safely used in an M1 Garand? The 4166 looks like the most likely candidate, but it's not worth bending an operating rod, to find out.

FrankenMauser · December 19, 2014, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Please stop making rifle powders and make nothing but pistol powders until inventory is balanced out. ANyone can buy 48lbs of pretty much any rifle powder, on a monthly basis. But pistol? I have not even SEEN some of the good pistol powders in about 1-2 YEARS.

You need to get out more.

In the last two months, I've seen:
Unique
Bullseye
W231
AA #7
CFE Pistol
And more that I don't use, so I don't pay attention to what they are.

And heard of large local stocks of (through friends):
CFE Pistol (1,500+ lbs)
Titegroup
2400
5744
PP300-MP
IMR 4227
And even Trail Boss...

But, me? ...I can't get the rifle powders that I need.

9MMand223only · December 19, 2014, 06:00 PM

I can't get

N340
N320
N330
True Blue
Silhouette
Titegroup
HS-6
IMR4756
Power Pistol
Bullseye
Green Dot
Accurate #5

But hey..I can, this very instant buy at LEAST 10 different rifle powders, in 48 lb quantities for 223.

But I can't buy even what? maybe 1 powders for 9 MM? Not even that.

I get out a lot, and pistol powder is vastly limited compared to rifle, vastly. Probably 10-1 or more.

You know pistol powder is limited when you actually have to wait 1-3 months for cheap ole Titegroup.

I think the powder companies need a good analyst

tightgroup lover · December 19, 2014, 06:16 PM

I agree with Reynolds 357. I also have been finding that one of my old favorite powders, IMR 4350, now gives different velocities with each can I buy. The most recent is averaging 135 FPS lower velocity than I got for many years over my chrono with the same load. Volume in the cases looks to be about the same, and accuracy is there; however, velocity is not! I had a can about 1.5 years ago that was averaging 3300(!!???) fps with the same load, and gave some sticky bolt lifts with my weatherby vanguard. A 270 win IS NOT supposed to give 3300 fps with a 130 gr bullet! I have always believed the powder was mislabeled. Has anyone else had an experience like that?

November 7, 2014, 12:15 PM	#1
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	New IMR rifle powders.... gotta have:( http://www.imrpowder.com/shotpist.html IMR 4166™ IMR 4166 This fine, extruded propellant is the first in the series of Enduron Technology powders. The main features of the Enduron series are copper fouling eliminator, insensitivity to temperature changes, ideal loading density and being environmentally friendly. IMR 4166 is the perfect burn speed for cartridges like the 308 Win/7.62mm NATO, 22-250 Remington, 257 Roberts and dozens more. Positively, a versatile, match grade propellant. IMR 4451™ IMR 4451 Another new Enduron extruded powder, IMR 4451, gives top performance in the venerable 30-06, 270 Winchester and 300 Winchester Short Magnum, to name just a few. This propellant is ideally suited for many, many mid-range burn speed cartridges. Simply scroll through the list of cartridges on the Hodgdon Reloading Data Center, and see how many of your favorite cartridges are covered with this fine powder. Once the shooter tries this one in that favorite cartridge, his search is over! IMR 7977™ IMR 7977 The slowest burn rate Enduron Technology extruded powder is IMR 7977, and is a true magnum cartridge propellant. It yields outstanding performance in such cartridges as the 300 Winchester Magnum, 7mm Remington Magnum, 338 Lapua and a host of others. Loading density is perfect for magnums, nicely filling the case at maximum charges, contributing to superb uniformity and accuracy. The 7mm Remington Magnum “never had it so good”! --------------------------- Why gotta have? For me H4895 for the small cases and H4350 for the big cases gave me temp stability for hunting. For break in, CFE is Copper reducing, but is miserable ball powder that is temp sensitive and hard to set off with small primers in a medium case. But the new IMR stuff looks, on paper, like the best of both worlds. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

November 7, 2014, 02:54 PM	#3
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	So, speaking of approximate burn rate and application, I'm guessing they're intended as 'replacements' for.... 4166 = 4064 4451 = 4350 7977 = 7828 If it becomes readily available and is not stupidly priced, I may have to give the 4166 a shot. I do also like 4350 in a few cartridges, but 30-35% of my powder is in that burn rate and I rarely shoot those cartridges. I really don't need to be adding yet another powder in a burn rate that I rarely use. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

November 7, 2014, 04:15 PM	#4
tobnpr Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 4,556	They don't say where 4451 is on the burn rate chart... Between Varget, and 4350? I tried IMR 4350 in my 7-08 a couple of days ago and as some suggested might happen, I did get a fairly substantial velocity bump (70 fps) over the H4350. So many powders, so little range time __________________ Remington 700/Savage Rebarreling /Action Blueprinting 07 FFL /Mosin-Nagant Custom Shop/Bent Bolts Genuine Cerakote Applicator www.biggorillagunworks.com

November 7, 2014, 11:42 PM	#8
Colorado Redneck Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2008 Location: Northeast Colorado Posts: 1,993	Powder Valley has some http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/ IMR 4166

November 8, 2014, 07:18 AM	#13
Roughedge Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Location: Monroe,NC Posts: 669	I tried the CFE pistol and like it, but now I cant find it. I wish they would catch up on pistol powder and then work on the new stuff. __________________ The man that die's with the most stuff win's!

November 7, 2014, 12:45 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Yup, sounds like they are trying to compete with Hodgdon Extreme and Hodgdon CFE in one can. Just because Hodgdon distributes several brands of powder does not mean the manufacturers are not competing for sales even if out of the same warehouse.

November 7, 2014, 05:33 PM	#5
Idaho Spud Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2010 Posts: 330	If they'd quit foolin' with these new powders maybe there'd be enough makin's for the stuff people really want. __________________ "I should have picked alcohol, drugs, or beating my wife..." Pete Rose

November 7, 2014, 08:30 PM	#6
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	My feelings exactly When I have enough of the old stuff then bring on the new! Ain't happened yet, maybe part of why we are short?

November 7, 2014, 11:13 PM	#7
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	When I first started reloading, there were only 15 - 20 different powders out there. Now there must be over 50. I quit trying many of the new ones because they could not out perform ones that have been around for 60 years are so. Exception would be the super slow powders which redefined the term overbore cartridge and H Varget and Benchmark for target shooting.

November 8, 2014, 01:43 AM	#9
SVO Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Location: Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 728	I have to wonder if the 4166 is really a large lot of off-spec 4064. You know where they end up with a bunch of powder that they can't sell as 4064, so they re-write the specs and now have a new powder called 4166 to sell.... Just saying...

November 8, 2014, 01:48 AM	#10
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	I'm skeptical on cfe, anyone try it and actually notice a difference?

November 8, 2014, 06:28 AM	#12
Rimfire5 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 922	I recently tried CFE in my CZ527 with a 1:9 twist with 52 and 53 grain bullets - the CZ's favorites. The CFE was as accurate as N133 and slightly more accurate than H335. I didn't notice any significant difference in clean up, though. CFE does take more powder per round to get the equivalent velocity. I also tried it with 77 grain bullets in semi auto .223 with a 1:7 twist and it performed beautifully right up there with Varget and better than H4895 for accuracy. My .223 has issues with the fast powders like H335 and H322. The gas port apparently doesn't get enough gas to cycle the bolt completely with the faster powders but CFE performs just fine. In the semi, I did notice that the bolt assembly was cleaner with CFE. I'm pleased enough with CFE to buy more of it, that is if I can find any.

November 8, 2014, 08:11 PM	#15
mmb713 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2011 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 421	The powder companies haven't filled the backlog of orders since Sandyhook. When that gets filled then bring out new product. We're nearly two years out and there are still no pistol powders on the shelves. I'm sick and tired of it.

November 8, 2014, 08:16 PM	#16
trapper9260 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Location: Iowa Posts: 119	Why dose some of the powder comp. need to come up with something different when what they have works fine.Most of the powders sell fine and then they need to change to something different.I use 4064 alot and are they work on the do away with that now? or is that they are maken powder for the mil. and want us to start to use it.Just wondering.

November 11, 2014, 10:30 PM	#17
Colorado Redneck Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2008 Location: Northeast Colorado Posts: 1,993	Research and Development Departments These guys are paid to come up with "improved" products to stay ahead of competition. An example of improved product is the Hodgdon Extreme Powders. I have used many pounds of IMR4064, and it was the most accurate powder for my 22-250. However, the fired cases always had caked on soot that would trickle out as I processed the brass. Now I use Benchmark for 3 reasons: 1. Meters like water. Compared to 4064 it is night and day. 4064 I had to crunch my way through the powder charging process, and often the powder would bridge in the drop tube and after I removed the case then a few grains of powder would fall out. 2. Cleaner by far. When I was using 4064 I never believed the guys that said it was dirty. But experience showed they are right. 3. Is as accurate as 4064 in the 22-250 since it has a new barrel. Also, I can use Benchmark in the .204 Ruger with excellent results. Makes life simpler to use one powder for both guns. So, IMO developing new products is good for the consumer.

November 11, 2014, 11:41 PM	#18
SVTCobra306 Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2013 Posts: 434	Looks like Hodgdon has it on their reloading data center already. I looked it up on 22-250 and .243, looks like it gives a little velocity bump compared to Varget. I might grab a pound if I stumble upon it, but I won't go out of my way for it. Right now I am stocking Varget in 8 lb size because I can use it across a variety of calibers without having to have multiple powders. One "bonus" of the new powders coming out is that they are new and "cool" so they can relieve a little pressure off some of the old standby's. I wouldn't mind it if I could find IMR 4064 everywhere because of it being "outdated" lol. __________________ Former US Army Paratrooper (1/509th PIR and 2nd BCT 82nd ABN DIV) 2 time OIF Veteran NRA Certified RSO/CRSO NRA Certified Pistol Instructor

December 18, 2014, 05:54 PM	#19
ntg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2013 Location: 4B - Idaho Posts: 119	Anyone played with these new powders yet?

December 18, 2014, 10:31 PM	#20
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	I would be happy if they would just quit screwing with 4350. Every time I buy it now; it looks different and shoots different.

December 18, 2014, 10:58 PM	#21
9MMand223only Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2014 Posts: 283	IMR 4166 I have a lot of the IMR4166. Here is some testing with it. This is all in an AR15, 20" barrel, 1:8 twist. 100 YARDS Powder Load Bullet Brand Bullet Grain OAL Avg FPS Group Size 24.2 Sierra MK 69 2.253 0.45 24 Sierra MK 69 2.253 0.5 26 Nosler FB Tipped 55 2.253 0.546 26.2 Nosler FB Tipped 55 2.253 0.593 24.2 Sierra MK 69 2.253 0.599 25.5 Nosler FB Tipped 55 2.253 0.704 26.4 Nosler FB Tipped 55 2.253 0.777 24 Sierra MK 69 2.253 0.9 23.8 Sierra MK 69 2.253 0.905 23.5 Sierra MK 69 2.253 0.95 It is similar to VARGET in the way it meters and accuracy. I will do velocity testing on it in coming weeks probably. The 69 grain bullet, with charge of 24.2 is insanely accurate, this compared to the very accuracte charge of 25.3 with the same bullet using VARGET. Good powder, as you can see from the groups @ 100 yards. Its not going to get much better. I have to test it at longer distances. I do not understand who is running all these Powder companies lately? Why come out with 3 new rifle powders? Rifle powders are EASY to get, anyone can buy probably 100+ lbs anytime they want of a lot of choices. However, there is no pistol powders available? makes no sense? If anyone works at a powder company, may I please ask: Please stop making rifle powders and make nothing but pistol powders until inventory is balanced out. ANyone can buy 48lbs of pretty much any rifle powder, on a monthly basis. But pistol? I have not even SEEN some of the good pistol powders in about 1-2 YEARS. And IMR just discountinued one of the most accurate pistol powders in the history of mankind? I heard? IMR4756? I do not understand the reasoning for all these new rifle powders. I don't get it. Pistol powders are in short supply, not rifle. But hey, thanks for making IMR4166, its quite good. Pretty soon, I think its going to be a hit, and people will gobble it up like VARGET, because its pretty accurate. Last edited by 9MMand223only; December 18, 2014 at 11:05 PM.

December 18, 2014, 11:55 PM	#22
Kosh75287 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2007 Posts: 820	Okay, so these new powders are the best thing since sliced bread... But can ONE of them be safely used in an M1 Garand? The 4166 looks like the most likely candidate, but it's not worth bending an operating rod, to find out.

December 19, 2014, 06:00 PM	#24
9MMand223only Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2014 Posts: 283	I can't get N340 N320 N330 True Blue Silhouette Titegroup HS-6 IMR4756 Power Pistol Bullseye Green Dot Accurate #5 But hey..I can, this very instant buy at LEAST 10 different rifle powders, in 48 lb quantities for 223. But I can't buy even what? maybe 1 powders for 9 MM? Not even that. I get out a lot, and pistol powder is vastly limited compared to rifle, vastly. Probably 10-1 or more. You know pistol powder is limited when you actually have to wait 1-3 months for cheap ole Titegroup. I think the powder companies need a good analyst

December 19, 2014, 06:16 PM	#25
tightgroup lover Junior Member Join Date: December 12, 2014 Posts: 1	inconsistent velocities with imr 4350 I agree with Reynolds 357. I also have been finding that one of my old favorite powders, IMR 4350, now gives different velocities with each can I buy. The most recent is averaging 135 FPS lower velocity than I got for many years over my chrono with the same load. Volume in the cases looks to be about the same, and accuracy is there; however, velocity is not! I had a can about 1.5 years ago that was averaging 3300(!!???) fps with the same load, and gave some sticky bolt lifts with my weatherby vanguard. A 270 win IS NOT supposed to give 3300 fps with a 130 gr bullet! I have always believed the powder was mislabeled. Has anyone else had an experience like that?