Non-toxic shot in a fixed choke Citori?

rbernie · April 5, 2010, 07:27 AM

It is safe to shoot non-toxic show in a Japanese-made Citori with fixed (non-Invector) chokes? I am getting conflicting data on the question, and I would like to potentially use my Mod/Imp Citori barrel for waterfowl.....

Ricklin · April 5, 2010, 10:15 AM

There is a large variety of non-toxic on the market. If I were to go waterfowling with a good older shotgun I would shoot Bismuth. Sure it's expensive, but how many rounds are you going to shoot?
It depends on the hardness of the non-toxic shot. Bismuth is soft like lead. Steel?? not so much.

BigJimP · April 5, 2010, 10:59 AM

You said your gun was choked " Mod / Imp" ---- Improved What ??

Is it Improved Cyclinder or Improved Modified --- it makes a difference..

It is probably Imp Cyclinder - so, if it is IC, then yes its fine to shoot steel in it. The tightest choke recommended for Steel shot is Modified. Early Citori's ( prior to having screw in chokes are no more susceptible to shooting steel - than guns with screw in chokes - it just depends on what they are choked at).

Your decision only depends on the choke in the barrel / no other reason ...( and the length of the chamber ) so you pick the proper shell.

My hunch is your gun is probably a 2 3/4" or 3" chamber ..but check the barrel and tell us what it says ...for chamber length and chokes please..

HiBC · April 5, 2010, 11:10 AM

There is one other feature of a shotgun bbl beside the choke to consider.The forcing cone.There are long and short tapers.This is a point where it is possible for steel shot to cut thru a shotcup..

It is also possible for steel shot to initiate the soft solder to break loose wher the bbls are soldered to the ribs in a double.

For myself,I won't shoot steel in a double.Appropriate ammo,such as classic double or bismuth are options.Another option is a separate steel shot shotgun for waterfowling,etc.Bennelli Nova and Mossy 500s come to mind.
I might be overly cautious,but I will not be able to afford replacing my doubles.

BigJimP · April 5, 2010, 11:55 AM

I've shot a lot of steel shot in my older Browning Citori field gun (a Lightning model with 28" barrels ) and it was no problem - with Modified chokes.

They aren't cheap guns / but they certainly are not $ 3,000 guns either...on today's market. The barrels on these older Citori field guns are very strong ...(as are the newer ones) whether its a new model with screw in chokes or the older model with fixed chokes.

The guns I hunt with these days are Browning XS-Skeet models ( with screw in chokes ) ....but I have no problem scewing in a Modified choke and shooting Steel in my guns ....and they don't show any signs of abuse ...(and if I thought it would hurt them at all ...I would shoot something else ) !

My XS-Skeet Citori's ...(top one is the 12ga / that has many thousands of shells thru it / and its killed its share of ducks and pheasants ..)
http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...8&d=1256245028 These guns are my primary guns for hunting birds, Skeet and Sporting clays ( one in 12ga, one in 20ga, one in 28ga, and one in .410 )...its been a great set of guns for me ( for last 10 yrs or so ..).

Here is my Citori Lightning, that I bought new in 1988 ...I think .. its also killed a lot of Ducks, Pheasants, etc ....and a lot of clays as well .... 50,000 shells thru that gun easily by now ( and I haven't shot it at all in the last 10 yrs ..)... Its just in the safe / waiting for its next home (my oldest son wants it ..).

Attachment 58675

rbernie · April 5, 2010, 12:12 PM

Quote:

You said your gun was choked " Mod / Imp" ---- Improved What ??

Sorry - improved cylinder.

Scorch · April 5, 2010, 12:13 PM

If you are concerned about damaging the barrels (a very valid concern), you might want to try the new tungsten-polymer shot loads, they are designed to be safe in older doubles.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=680560

BigJimP · April 5, 2010, 02:10 PM

Imp Cyclinder / Mod are just fine for steel ....

Like I've said - in my opinion - you can run thousands of Steel shells thru that gun and not hurt it a lick ...

Your gun isn't really that old ....the first Citori's coming out of Japan were made in about 1973/1974 ... and I think the first guns showing up with Invector screw in chokes were in the mid 1980's ( but it varied by Browning model I think )...

April 5, 2010, 07:27 AM	#1
rbernie Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2004 Location: Plain Ol', TX Posts: 713	Non-toxic shot in a fixed choke Citori? It is safe to shoot non-toxic show in a Japanese-made Citori with fixed (non-Invector) chokes? I am getting conflicting data on the question, and I would like to potentially use my Mod/Imp Citori barrel for waterfowl..... __________________ -A conclusion is not a destination, it's simply a convenient place to stop thinking.- -Reading a thing doesn't automatically make it so; repeating it doesn't necessarily make it any truer.- -Every Texan should be a member of the Texas State Rifle Association.

April 5, 2010, 10:15 AM	#2
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,016	What non-toxic?? There is a large variety of non-toxic on the market. If I were to go waterfowling with a good older shotgun I would shoot Bismuth. Sure it's expensive, but how many rounds are you going to shoot? It depends on the hardness of the non-toxic shot. Bismuth is soft like lead. Steel?? not so much. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

April 5, 2010, 10:59 AM	#3
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	You said your gun was choked " Mod / Imp" ---- Improved What ?? Is it Improved Cyclinder or Improved Modified --- it makes a difference.. It is probably Imp Cyclinder - so, if it is IC, then yes its fine to shoot steel in it. The tightest choke recommended for Steel shot is Modified. Early Citori's ( prior to having screw in chokes are no more susceptible to shooting steel - than guns with screw in chokes - it just depends on what they are choked at). Your decision only depends on the choke in the barrel / no other reason ...( and the length of the chamber ) so you pick the proper shell. My hunch is your gun is probably a 2 3/4" or 3" chamber ..but check the barrel and tell us what it says ...for chamber length and chokes please.. Last edited by BigJimP; April 5, 2010 at 11:04 AM.

April 5, 2010, 11:55 AM	#5
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I've shot a lot of steel shot in my older Browning Citori field gun (a Lightning model with 28" barrels ) and it was no problem - with Modified chokes. They aren't cheap guns / but they certainly are not $ 3,000 guns either...on today's market. The barrels on these older Citori field guns are very strong ...(as are the newer ones) whether its a new model with screw in chokes or the older model with fixed chokes. The guns I hunt with these days are Browning XS-Skeet models ( with screw in chokes ) ....but I have no problem scewing in a Modified choke and shooting Steel in my guns ....and they don't show any signs of abuse ...(and if I thought it would hurt them at all ...I would shoot something else ) ! My XS-Skeet Citori's ...(top one is the 12ga / that has many thousands of shells thru it / and its killed its share of ducks and pheasants ..) http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...8&d=1256245028 These guns are my primary guns for hunting birds, Skeet and Sporting clays ( one in 12ga, one in 20ga, one in 28ga, and one in .410 )...its been a great set of guns for me ( for last 10 yrs or so ..). Here is my Citori Lightning, that I bought new in 1988 ...I think .. its also killed a lot of Ducks, Pheasants, etc ....and a lot of clays as well .... 50,000 shells thru that gun easily by now ( and I haven't shot it at all in the last 10 yrs ..)... Its just in the safe / waiting for its next home (my oldest son wants it ..). Attachment 58675 Last edited by BigJimP; July 24, 2015 at 06:27 PM.

April 5, 2010, 12:13 PM	#7
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	If you are concerned about damaging the barrels (a very valid concern), you might want to try the new tungsten-polymer shot loads, they are designed to be safe in older doubles. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=680560 __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

April 5, 2010, 11:10 AM	#4
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	There is one other feature of a shotgun bbl beside the choke to consider.The forcing cone.There are long and short tapers.This is a point where it is possible for steel shot to cut thru a shotcup.. It is also possible for steel shot to initiate the soft solder to break loose wher the bbls are soldered to the ribs in a double. For myself,I won't shoot steel in a double.Appropriate ammo,such as classic double or bismuth are options.Another option is a separate steel shot shotgun for waterfowling,etc.Bennelli Nova and Mossy 500s come to mind. I might be overly cautious,but I will not be able to afford replacing my doubles.

April 5, 2010, 02:10 PM	#8
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Imp Cyclinder / Mod are just fine for steel .... Like I've said - in my opinion - you can run thousands of Steel shells thru that gun and not hurt it a lick ... Your gun isn't really that old ....the first Citori's coming out of Japan were made in about 1973/1974 ... and I think the first guns showing up with Invector screw in chokes were in the mid 1980's ( but it varied by Browning model I think )...