Home Defense Handgun...

[DaftHazard]

Hey everyone,

My girlfriend's dad is wanting to get a handgun for home defense. He has a very low budget, so it would probably end up being a used firearm. The catch is that he wants it to be small enough for his wife and my girlfriend to shoot it effectively as well.

He's talked about getting a .32 revolver, but I wanted to know what your opinions were. My girlfriend has been shooting with me a few times, and her max comfort level is with a 9mm.

He is partial to revolvers, but would be willing to get an automatic. I just know that revolvers can be a little harder for girls to shoot due to the trigger pull.

Again, the big thing here is price. He said $200-$300 range.

[Sevens]

If it's money, money, money, then I suggest a used Ruger P-95 or S&W Sigma/SW9VE. Solid gun that will run and not give feeding or function issues. Chambered in 9mm, it's thoroughly capable and because everyone who might be in a position to use it should have some experience actually shooting it, 9mm ammo is the most affordable (capable) caliber on the market.

.32 caliber revolver? Ammo is going to be expensive and weak. And who even makes & sells .32 caliber revolvers? Unless you're talking about a .327 Federal, you're talking about old relics of questionable manufacturer or collectible pieces of history that are not at their best when placed in the important role of home defense.

While the .327 Federal is absolutely capable, new revolvers in this chambering are next to impossible to find and very much out of his price range.

[Cheapshooter]

If he is partial to revolver you can't go wrong with a used S&W Model 10. they can be found at the upper end of the price range you mentioned.
In a new gun, I don't have any personal experience with them, but Armscor has a 38 Spcl (NOT +P) revolver in either 4" or 2" which look very much like a Colt. Just not finished "artfully" LOL. There has been some good reviews if yo do a Google search.
I haven't shot them, but did get to handle one, and for the price of around two and a half I think they aren't bad. Might even get one just for the heck of it myself.

[DaftHazard]

I was curious about if that was really a lucrative caliber. I almost exclusively shoot autos, so I'm pretty stupid about revolvers and their calibers lol

I'll definitely do some homework on those. I appreciate it guys! keep those suggestions coming...

[DaftHazard]

Just did a little digging... I think that armscor might be the ticket...

[Cheapshooter]

Just do plenty of research, and check a lot of reviews. As pointed out in one of them I watched, there will be the haters, just as with Hi-Points, that will demean the Armscor just because it's not their $800 S&W or Colt!
As one of the YouTube reviews said, the D/A pull can be pretty rough, but he also said the S/A pull was quite good. That might also be a consideration with the ladies in mind.

[Lost Sheep]

Please excuse my going astray from the letter of the question. I am trying to address the need expressed rather than the literal question.

(note: I do get around to answering the literal question eventually)

Why get a dog of a revolver when they (your girlfriend's Dad's family) can be better served by an actual dog.

Self-contained. Not only a defensive weapon against intruders, but includes intruder-detection software and hardware already built-in.

A dog provides exercise (if you train with your dog as much as you should train with a gun).

A dog provides psychological counseling and never betrays a confidence.

You can warm your feet on a cold night against a dog's back (try THAT with cold steel.)

MOST IMPORTANT: Use of lethal weaponry requires (responsibly) recognition of the legal and psychological implications and risks. The emotional and legal aftermath of pulling a trigger on another human being requires a lot of preparation, training, knowledge and realistic expectations. You can prove yourself (to your girlfriend's father) an upstanding and proper steward of his daughter's well-being if you discuss these matters with him. He has shown a trust in you by asking for this advice. I suggest your return the favor by giving him the WHOLE picture. Not just on the firearms available, but on the other stuff needed, like cleaning, training, practice ammo and an increase in homeowner's liability insurance. He will respect you all the more for it.

Also suggest creating a defense plan to react to a home invasion as well as smoke or fire in the house. Pre-planned changes to the home perimeter is a good idea as well. Exterior lighting, proper arrangement of bushes and lawn ornaments, etc help steer potential threats away from your home in favor of easier targets. All to be considered in addition to (and possibly before) firearm choice.

Also note that the second part of the question involved ease of use for his wife and daughter to shoot. Handguns (auto or revolver) require a LOT of practice to master and to shoot well. Long arms are MUCH easier to hit with. A brand-new pump shotgun can be had for around $300 (Mossberg, and Remington 870 is on sale in Anchorage next week for $325 for Bass Pro's opening a new store here) While 12 Gauge may be a bit heavy for the wife and daughter, they are not unmanageable and light loads are available. 20 Gauge (or 16 Gauge) are more manageable for some with less upper body strength.

My house gun is a 6" .357 Magnum Security Six loaded with .38 Special frangible ammunition (that is designed not to penetrate my exterior walls) near by bed and 12 Gauge pump in the bedroom closet.

I can choose from among: 4" Sec.Six, 6" Dan Wesson .357, 5" 45 ACP 1911, 45 ACP Taurus Millenium, 5.5" an 7.5" 44 Magnum (in which my ammo choice would be 44 Specials) and 7.5" 454 Casul (in which my ammo choice would be 45 Colt). Not to mention Taurus 9mm Semi-auto. I also have 4" and 6" Ruger GP100s, but eschew them because my Sec Six is lighter and handier.

I chose the 357 because it is light and handy and I am accurate with it. I keep thinking about using the larger, slower 45 ACP and 45 Colt, though.

A police surplus Smith & Wesson Model 10 or Model 15 (38 Special) might just be the ticket, though I much prefer the Ruger double action revolvers for a number of reasons. But the Smiths are good and proven guns. 39 Special ammo is available and shootable for the whole family and has a proven track record for social work. Despite some highly hyped failures, they are rare; most bad guys will stop when the first hole appears in their flesh or upon the appearance of an armed defender with determination and confidence (remember the training and mental preparation) on their face(s).

Thanks for asking our advice, and again, please forgive my detour to the canine, non-gun, relationship and long gun suggestions.

Lost Sheep

edit: Please don't take my lack of mention of Armscor, Taurus or other revolvers as denigrating them. I have a Taurus 22 revolver which works great and I would expect nothing different from their other models. I know almost nothing about Armscor. Don't forget Charer Arms, either.

[Dragline45]

Another vote for the S&W model 10. Not only is it right in his price range, but it may be the best .38 revolver, if not one of the best revolvers ever made period. Forget about a .32 revolver, I will guarantee you that his wife and daughter can handle at least standard pressure .38 loads from a Model 10 or I will buy it outright from him! I know he said $200-$300, but the model 10 is more likely to run you about $350. I bet your girlfriend wouldn't mind paying the difference of $50 so her father ends up with a quality gun.

[lamarw]

Find a local dealer and ask him to go take a look and handle the SCCY either CRX-1 or CRX-2. They are both the same pistol except the CRX-1 has a safety whereas the CRX-2 relies upon the double action trigger as the safety precaution. They only come in 9mm.

You can most likely score a brand new one for well under $300.00. It is manufactured in the USA and carries a lifetime of the pistol warranty no matter how many owners. They also will pay for the shipping both ways in case you need and adjustment or warranty work.

SCCY has an internet site so do a google search to look at their pistols and in doing some research and finding a close by dealer. They have the best Customer Support I have ever run into with a gun manufacturer. No questions ask just let us help you in anyway we can.

I am not saying this out of ignorance since I own Beretta's, Sigs, Smith & Wesson and others.

[KyJim]

I would definitely NOT recommend a shotgun for home defense for relatively inexperienced shooters. They are unwieldy, easier to take away, have more recoil, and are more intimidating to inexperienced shooters.

I have not shot an Armscor but they seem to be okay by most accounts. I agree that a used SW Model 10 would be a great choice. He should definitely stay away from lightweight revolvers. Many novices instinctively go for them because they feel better in the hand. However, they have more felt recoil and are more difficult to control. He wants an all-steel gun.

[Lost Sheep]

Originally Posted by KyJim

I would definitely NOT recommend a shotgun for home defense for relatively inexperienced shooters. They are unwieldy, easier to take away, have more recoil, and are more intimidating to inexperienced shooters.

Thanks for mentioning the caveats, KyJim. I passed over the recommended tactics for home defense for non-martially-trained individuals.

The usual best tactic is to call for backup and shelter in place. Stationary defense behind closed doors does not usually involve grappling with the intruder.

As far as being intimidating to the inexperienced shooter, I DO NOT suggest defense with a firearm for the inexperienced. If you keep a gun for defense, you should become comfortable shooting it or get a different one.

For quick presentation, I keep my handgun close by. For preferred firepower, the shotgun is easier to hit with. If I were to clear my house, handgun for maneuverability. If I were defending in place, shotgun.

The essential points I want to make for the OP and his girlfriend's family are:
Training and Practice with whatever is chosen.
Mental preparation of all personnel
Practical preparation of the home (with contingency plans, response, evacuation, etc)

I think we can all agree on those points.

Lost Sheep

[Webleymkv]

It would be hard to go wrong with a nice used S&W K-Frame. The .38 Special models (10 and 64 with fixed sights or 14, 15, and 67 with adjustable sights) will probably be more affordable, but there wouldn't be anything wrong with a .357 Magnum model (Model 13 and 65 with fixed sights or 19 and 66 with adjustable sights) if you come across one for a good price as they can shoot .38 Special ammunition just fine.

The S&W K-Frames are revolvers which seem to fit a wide variety of people very well in that, with smaller service-style stocks, they're not too big for small-handed people but with larger target-style stocks they fit large-handed people well too. Also, their 30+ oz weight goes a long way to dampen the recoil of a .38 Special which really isn't all that severe to begin with. Also, unlike many small-frame revolvers, the K-Frames generally have very nice triggers which aren't difficult for most people to operate.

As for a good mild-recoiling .38 Special loading, you've got a few options. In a hollowpoint Hornady's 110gr Critical Defense and Federal's 125gr NyClad are both good choices though their penetration is on the shallow side. Honestly, there's a lot to be said for an old-fashioned 148gr target wadcutter loading as they generally have more than sufficient penetration, are quite accurate, and have very mild recoil. A wadcutter will give you little, if any expansion but it blunt face is still reasonably effective at tissue disruption and would, to me, still be preferable over a small caliber line .22 LR, .32 Auto, .32 S&W Long, or .380 Auto.

If, for whatever reason, he decides to look into a semi-automatic, a good option might be a S&W 5906 9mm. I've been seeing lots of these on the used market lately (most likely police trade-ins) and they are excellent guns for the money. Like most 3rd Generation S&W semi-autos, the 5906 is very accurate and reliable. Also, unlike many newer guns with polymer or aluminum frames, the all-steel construction of this model gives it an unloaded weight of roughly 38 oz which dampens the already modest recoil of the 9mm very well.

[gyvel]

Just did a little digging... I think that armscor might be the ticket...

While I agree with all who said that a used Model 10 would the optimal choice, I can say that, on my trips to the Philippines, about 90% of every armed person I saw had an Armscor.

Virtually every legitimate business has an armed security guard at the door, and Armscor seems to be the weapon of choice, be it a revolver, auto loader or shotgun.

Regarding a used Model 10 S&W, check on Bud's Gun Shop website. I believe they have some decent police trade-ins right now for around 3 bills.

EDIT: The S&W 10s are sold out. Last price was $299.00

[Lost Sheep]

http://www.corneredcat.com/

is written by a woman and with women shooters in mind, but is of equal value to gents, too.

Lost Sheep

[hvymax]

+1 on the police trade ins. They are usually a proven well supported platform professionally maintained. As previously stated any potential users need to at least be familiar enough to load, fire and hit something across the room. For me any HD firearm needs a light. I have teenagers who aren't always where I would expect to being able to identify my target even at the last possible second is imperative to me. Another HD choice overlooked by most is a carbine. They are far easier for the small or elderly to use and recoil is usually negligible. Pistol caliber carbines also have far less muzzle blast and report.

[Cheapshooter]

I was going to suggest one of the Bud's police trade-ins, but I looked at the sight, and they weren't listed anymore, or marked sold out. That's why I just generically suggested a model 10.

[RX-79G]

I'm going to make what I am sure is an extremely unpopular suggestion:

Buy a quality, but inexpensive, .22 'target' auto. Specifically, a Ruger MK1,2 or 3 or 22/45, Browning Buckmark or Beretta Neos. You can find all of those used for under $300 on your local Armslist, and a Neos can often be had for $250 brand new.

.22LR isn't hugely lethal, but plenty of people have been stopped or killed by it. More importantly, the .22 autos I listed are exceptionally easy for novices and people with low hand strength to load, clear and fire. Those weapons are reliable, fun to shoot, can be fired very rapidly for defense and are much less disorienting to fire indoors without earplugs. 10 rounds of .22 is not a joke.


It would be great if something like the Beretta 86 was super cheap, but most centerfire handguns are very intimidating to people who don't love guns. They have stiff springs, stiff triggers and boom like a flash-bang grenade when fired in a hallway.

A used S&W .38 revolver with standard pressure .38 ammo would be my second choice, but I really think expecting someone unprepared to get more than one shot off is unrealistic. And finding one for $300 or less is going to take awhile.

[gb_in_ga]

What obviously comes to mind is a used S&W K-Frame revolver in .38 Spl or .357 Mag. I found a used model 15 (in .38 Spl, of course) a few years back for a bit less than $200. I went and got my wife and showed it to her, she snatched it up and loves it.

She has arthritis and thus is quite recoil sensitive, and she has small hands. But with a K frame .38 that isn't really a problem. I hand load "bunny phart" wadcutters for her to practice with (recoil isn't much more than a .22lr), but she keeps +p hollow points in it for, uh, "Social Purposes". Yeah, she can handle a few rounds of it, I point out that if the need is there the recoil will be the last thing she'll be worrying about. 6 rounds of .38 Spl +p HPs is potent medicine for SD/HD. There is such a wide range of aftermarket grips available that you can fit anybody's hands to it -- small, large, or anything between.

Oh, BTW -- that model 15 is a really sweet shooter. I've never encountered a better DA trigger pull, and the SA trigger is light and crisp. Accurate as all get-out, too!

[AK103K]

The police trade ins are probably the best way to go, and about as low as I would go. This isnt something to go "cheap" on though. You want something of decent quality.

I got a nice DAO S&W 64 fr $250 from J&G sales a couple of years back, but their prices on them and guns similar to them, have gone up considerably in the past year or so. The Bud's model 10 looked like a pretty good deal, but those type trade ins seem to be more and more hit or miss anymore.

The other issue will be practice, and the ammo for it. The cost of that will likely exceed the cost of the gun, and pretty quick, but that too really needs to be in the budget as well.

[gyvel]

J&G still has advertised Model 64s (stainless Model 10s) for $259.95 in "good" condition or VG cond. for $299.95

[Marty8613]

I picked up this pre-lock 38 Special +P rated snub for $270 out the door at a local gun show. It even came with rubber Pac-Mar grips as a bonus, but I liked the installed wooden grips.

The only issues I had to deal with:

The hammer was not adjusted tight enough, got light strikes, a very easy adjustment.

The barrel was leaded up very bad, it took some extra cleaning time.

I think the price was so low as the leading (marked $250) was bad enough to look like a bad barrel. It was actually one of the best bores I have seen on an old gun.

[Spats McGee]

I'd advise your girlfriend's dad to skip the .32. I've never shot a .32, never owned one . . . but, with all of that said, and bearing in mind that I've never gone on the hunt for .32 ammo, I cannot recall having ever seen much available, either. By comparison, there are lots and lots of used .38 revolvers out there, and ammo is both plentiful. Surely there's a used .38 out there that will fit both the hands of the wife and girlfriend and his budget.

[SansSouci]

Daft,

If a handgun is for self-defense, buy the best she can afford. After all, its intent will be to save your girlfriend's life.

A few months ago I took a woman shooting. She had never fired any gun. I used my P-229 with factory 180 grain .40 S&W rounds. She is a normal-sized woman. She is athletic. At first she was slightly intimidated. By her third magazine, she was comfortable loading and shooting it.

She wanted to buy a handgun. I told her that gun store salesmen would try to steer her to a .380. I told her to not go that route. I told her that she was comfortable with a .40 S&W, that that should be her minimum. I told her that there was no doubt in my mind that she could shoot a .45 ACP.

A week later she told me that she had gone to a gun shop where a salesman tried to steer to a .380 because she's a woman. She told him that she was good with a .40 S&W.

My advice is to save a few hundred bucks to add to the 300 bucks she now has to spend and buy a good quality handgun of sufficient power.

IMO, I'd rather buy a good-quality used gun than a new gun of lesser quality.

[SansSouci]

Lost Sheep,

There is no doubt that a 12 gauge is superior to any handgun. However, unless you can stay put in one's bedroom and allow the bad guy to come you, it is a poor choice for home defense. If she has to maneuver within a home, a long gun has too many detriments to be practical, especially for a woman. If she has to leave her room for any reason, she'd be at very real risk of having her long gun taken from her by a bad guy.

[Lost Sheep]

Originally Posted by SansSouci

There is no doubt that a 12 gauge is superior to any handgun. However, unless you can stay put in one's bedroom

You are correct. As I replied to KyJim

Originally Posted by Lost Sheep

The usual best tactic is to call for backup and shelter in place. Stationary defense behind closed doors does not usually involve grappling with the intruder.

If the family can get together in a "safe room" and contact the police (yes, I still have expectations they will come when called) was my premise for the shotgun recommendation.

Originally Posted by SansSouci

If a handgun is for self-defense, buy the best she can afford.

Absolutely right. It is false economy to scrimp on your life-saving gear. By all means, sacrifice what you(they) have to to get a decent firearm. It will hold up to practice use and hold its value as well. It is an investment in safety as well as financial investment. And a can be a lot of fun at the range, too.


Thanks for reading.

Lost Sheep