The Freedom Group seems to have the reverse midas touch - Page 2

Colorado Redneck · November 18, 2014, 02:15 PM

Thanks, GeezerBiker.

Ben Towe · November 26, 2014, 05:04 AM

To understand what is happening to Freedom Group (or whatever they call themselves these days) one needs only to look at other large corporations that have failed or are currently failing. International Harvester and Chrysler in the 80's, GM and Chrysler 2008/2009, Sear/Kmart and possibly Colt at the present time... All caused by mismanagement and greed.

Big Shrek · November 26, 2014, 10:34 PM

Part of the problem is that the Ilion, NY facility is more or less closed right now...
and all the rifles that were being made there, aren't being made until the move is completed...
everything is being packed off to Alabama, since NY peeved off all the gun MFR's with the SAFE ACT.

Hey New Yuck!! Watch as MONEY moves out of your state as fast as it can!!

Remington broke ground in Alabama recently and sent a message to NY state,
it is available if you google it...basically gave NY the Finger due to the SAFE Act.

You Yankee's better start paying attention to who you elect.
If they aren't heavily Pro-Gun, don't elect 'em.
Do the world a favor, push Bloomberg off a cliff too

Picher · November 28, 2014, 12:26 PM

It's widely known that gun companies in the past continued to make products that never made any money. For instance, the Winchester model 52 cost more to make than what it sold for. That may have been good advertising, but not a good long-term strategy.

IMHO, today's gun conglomerates tend to go the other way, stopping production on guns that don't make huge profits for them. They may be short-sighted, however; stopping production on beginner .22s and other inexpensive models can prevent people from a good learning experience.

We all didn't start our shooting sport by buying expensive rifles. Most of us got hand-me-down, or new less-expensive rifles that were not only inexpensive, but shot quite accurately. We traded up as time passed and bought better and better guns. Without those first opportunities, the industry could eventually fail.

I guess people today are more interested in self-protection than in shooting as a recreational activity, but after someone buys a gun to protect themselves, they may never buy another, so the long-term profitability of the gun industry could be in trouble.

steveNChunter · November 30, 2014, 05:06 PM

If the Handi Rifle is indeed discontinued, I know of at least one company jumping for joy. CVA. Maybe T/C a little as well but the Encore and Contender are a definite step up from the Handi

jaysouth · November 30, 2014, 07:41 PM

If CVA can get their act together, there is a vast market for their "hunter" and "scout" line of single shot rifles. I consider them superior to Handi at a better price.

A fair comparison of rifles is Handi at $275 to the CVA hunter at $235. The hunter comes with scope mounts, a synthetic stock with nice cheekpiece and recoil pad, and a fluted Bergera barrel. However, CVA can't get it's act together and actually move their rifles to retailers. If they could manufacture a hundred thousand in 30-30, 30-40 and 45-70 they would sell in a trice to handi owners who want a decent rifle in these rimmed calibers that are single shot friendly WITH twists that are cast bullet friendly.

Sad to see H&R go down the tubes. Had you called their customer service a year ago, you would know that they were in trouble.

Come to think of it, CVA customer service could use some smarter people answering the phones too.

DPris · December 1, 2014, 02:41 AM

Handi Rifles are history.
Denis

reynolds357 · December 1, 2014, 02:45 PM

CVA "get their act together"? They have never had it together. I doubt they will get it together now.

I think their problem is they try to import too many parts from too many sources. They end up putting together a piece of junk from a design that should be solid.

WV_gunner · December 4, 2014, 11:23 AM

H&R had its doors closed up once before so I'm sure we all knew it would happen again. I haven't owned a very new one of their guns but I do own an NEF and it's probably between 5-15 years old, I'm not sure. Shoots great though, it's a cheaper model with a plastic stock. I own a .410 from the '30s and it's an excellent gun. My dad owns a NEF with a wood stock and that gun had a nice stock, fit and finish is great, and it's decently accurate. Actually the nicest gun I've shot and I've shot a few. I do like the simplicity, the lightness, and shortness of these guns. For the guys saying they have always been junk, what are you comparing them to? Me and Dad paid $200 each used for ours at a gun store. If they had been your typical bolt or lever gun we'd paid over double that for a used rifle. Anyways, another thing to ponder is they just didn't make break action single shots, they made bolt and auto rifles and pump shot guns. I'm not talking about the cheap knock off guns they are importing either. They had a line of self defense handguns and target .22s. They also had a fancy shotgun, I believe imported from Austria. They had the Reising rifles too, anyone else knew they produced full auto .45 ACP rifles? So just don't think they only had break action single shots, at one time their selection was large.
With all of that being said I do like their single shots and I'd like to see more people appreciate the simpler things. I do have a few guns myself but I like single shots the most, you don't need an untra expensive gun.

DPris · December 4, 2014, 12:03 PM

Appears the only guns left in the brand will be the imports.
Denis

ddc · December 12, 2014, 10:33 PM

You can add Rohrbaugh to the list...

cryogenic419 · December 14, 2014, 07:03 AM

Truly is a shame what is happening with Freedom Group.

Some of the companies in the list were really top notch companies at one point. Look for cost savings in your increased raw materials and other supplies buying power, not skimping on QC or putting quality products out the door.

November 26, 2014, 05:04 AM	#27
Ben Towe Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2009 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 1,128	To understand what is happening to Freedom Group (or whatever they call themselves these days) one needs only to look at other large corporations that have failed or are currently failing. International Harvester and Chrysler in the 80's, GM and Chrysler 2008/2009, Sear/Kmart and possibly Colt at the present time... All caused by mismanagement and greed. __________________ 'Merica: Back to back World War Champs

November 26, 2014, 10:34 PM	#28
Big Shrek Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: NorthWest Florida Posts: 1,358	Part of the problem is that the Ilion, NY facility is more or less closed right now... and all the rifles that were being made there, aren't being made until the move is completed... everything is being packed off to Alabama, since NY peeved off all the gun MFR's with the SAFE ACT. Hey New Yuck!! Watch as MONEY moves out of your state as fast as it can!! Remington broke ground in Alabama recently and sent a message to NY state, it is available if you google it...basically gave NY the Finger due to the SAFE Act. You Yankee's better start paying attention to who you elect. If they aren't heavily Pro-Gun, don't elect 'em. Do the world a favor, push Bloomberg off a cliff too __________________ Marlin Specialist Calico Specialist A gun should be a tool in the hands of a deadly weapon, not a deadly weapon in the hands of a tool.

November 30, 2014, 05:06 PM	#30
steveNChunter Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2012 Location: Southern Appalachian Mtns Posts: 1,520	If the Handi Rifle is indeed discontinued, I know of at least one company jumping for joy. CVA. Maybe T/C a little as well but the Encore and Contender are a definite step up from the Handi __________________ DEO VINDICE

November 18, 2014, 02:15 PM	#26
Colorado Redneck Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2008 Location: Northeast Colorado Posts: 1,993	Thanks, GeezerBiker.

November 28, 2014, 12:26 PM	#29
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	It's widely known that gun companies in the past continued to make products that never made any money. For instance, the Winchester model 52 cost more to make than what it sold for. That may have been good advertising, but not a good long-term strategy. IMHO, today's gun conglomerates tend to go the other way, stopping production on guns that don't make huge profits for them. They may be short-sighted, however; stopping production on beginner .22s and other inexpensive models can prevent people from a good learning experience. We all didn't start our shooting sport by buying expensive rifles. Most of us got hand-me-down, or new less-expensive rifles that were not only inexpensive, but shot quite accurately. We traded up as time passed and bought better and better guns. Without those first opportunities, the industry could eventually fail. I guess people today are more interested in self-protection than in shooting as a recreational activity, but after someone buys a gun to protect themselves, they may never buy another, so the long-term profitability of the gun industry could be in trouble.

November 30, 2014, 07:41 PM	#31
jaysouth Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2001 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 787	If CVA can get their act together, there is a vast market for their "hunter" and "scout" line of single shot rifles. I consider them superior to Handi at a better price. A fair comparison of rifles is Handi at $275 to the CVA hunter at $235. The hunter comes with scope mounts, a synthetic stock with nice cheekpiece and recoil pad, and a fluted Bergera barrel. However, CVA can't get it's act together and actually move their rifles to retailers. If they could manufacture a hundred thousand in 30-30, 30-40 and 45-70 they would sell in a trice to handi owners who want a decent rifle in these rimmed calibers that are single shot friendly WITH twists that are cast bullet friendly. Sad to see H&R go down the tubes. Had you called their customer service a year ago, you would know that they were in trouble. Come to think of it, CVA customer service could use some smarter people answering the phones too.

December 1, 2014, 02:41 AM	#32
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Handi Rifles are history. Denis

December 1, 2014, 02:45 PM	#33
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	CVA "get their act together"? They have never had it together. I doubt they will get it together now. I think their problem is they try to import too many parts from too many sources. They end up putting together a piece of junk from a design that should be solid.

December 4, 2014, 11:23 AM	#34
WV_gunner Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2011 Location: WV Posts: 938	H&R had its doors closed up once before so I'm sure we all knew it would happen again. I haven't owned a very new one of their guns but I do own an NEF and it's probably between 5-15 years old, I'm not sure. Shoots great though, it's a cheaper model with a plastic stock. I own a .410 from the '30s and it's an excellent gun. My dad owns a NEF with a wood stock and that gun had a nice stock, fit and finish is great, and it's decently accurate. Actually the nicest gun I've shot and I've shot a few. I do like the simplicity, the lightness, and shortness of these guns. For the guys saying they have always been junk, what are you comparing them to? Me and Dad paid $200 each used for ours at a gun store. If they had been your typical bolt or lever gun we'd paid over double that for a used rifle. Anyways, another thing to ponder is they just didn't make break action single shots, they made bolt and auto rifles and pump shot guns. I'm not talking about the cheap knock off guns they are importing either. They had a line of self defense handguns and target .22s. They also had a fancy shotgun, I believe imported from Austria. They had the Reising rifles too, anyone else knew they produced full auto .45 ACP rifles? So just don't think they only had break action single shots, at one time their selection was large. With all of that being said I do like their single shots and I'd like to see more people appreciate the simpler things. I do have a few guns myself but I like single shots the most, you don't need an untra expensive gun.

December 4, 2014, 12:03 PM	#35
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Appears the only guns left in the brand will be the imports. Denis

December 12, 2014, 10:33 PM	#36
ddc Member Join Date: November 26, 2000 Location: PNW Posts: 83	You can add Rohrbaugh to the list...

December 14, 2014, 07:03 AM	#37
cryogenic419 Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 569	Truly is a shame what is happening with Freedom Group. Some of the companies in the list were really top notch companies at one point. Look for cost savings in your increased raw materials and other supplies buying power, not skimping on QC or putting quality products out the door.