223 bolt, 7 or 8" twist

[NHSHOOTER]

A friend of mine is looking for a bolt action 223 with a 7"or 8" twist so he can shoot the heavier longer bullets for deer. Which gunmakers should we be looking at? Just off the shelf guns, no customs.

[taylorce1]

Ruger or Tikka are the only two I know of in a bolt action rifle that make an 8" twist barrel for the .223. I don't know of any that use a 7 twist barrel without a custom tube. BTW you'll have to look at Ruger American for the 8 twist I'm pretty sure the M77's use a 9 twist.

[Jimro]

A 1:8 twist will handle everything but the 90gr match bullets.

Most hunting bullets are lighter and shorter than that.

Jimro

[Mobuck]

One of the best"deer" bullets for .223(IF there really is such a thing) is the Nosler Partition. It shoots fine from 1-9" twist rates. I'm getting adequate accuracy(for vermin hunting purposes) with 69 BTHP in a 1-9" 20" AR.

[MrBorland]

AFAIK, the .223 bullets most suitable for deer are the 60gr Nosler Partitions and Barnes TSX, and even a 1:9 twist should stabilize them. The longer bullets are generally designed for paper punching at longer range, and aren't as tough as the NP and TSX, so despite their sectional density, they won't likely penetrate to the vitals as well. Your friend owes his deer a clean and quick kill.

If your bud is looking to buy a rifle for deer, why not buy a bona fide deer rifle? Seems a .243 would be the better choice if he wanted something for long range, varmints and deer.

EDIT: Mobuck beat me to it while I was typing. . Seriously, he should use the proper bullet, or a real deer cartridge.

[NHSHOOTER]

He has a "real deer rifle" but he is looking for something for a small stature shooter, his daughter, he will be with her in the blind and wont let her take a shot she shouldnt. I will probably be loading ammo for him when the time comes so I will definitely suggest the nosler partitions..

[taylorce1]

Simple get the Ruger American compact in .223 and shoot Barnes Vortex factory loaded ammunition. That's what I did with my daughter and it worked well. The only difference was I had to pay to have a stock cut down to 12” for my daughter's Stevens 200.

[mtlucas0311]

Don't use target bullets for deer, they are not designed for that purpose and don't do the job as well as bullets that were. How much a bullet weighs means nothing compared to the bullets design and construction. That said, I was in the same position your friend is a year or two ago. I called a few manufacturers and ended up getting 64 grain Nosler Bonded Performance bullets. They said they specifically designed that bullet for medium sized game like white tails. Those bullets out of an AR took down a nice size 10 point with a less than ideal shot. It went less than 100 yards. I'd recommend an AR with a telescoping stock, they fit small shooters better because you can set the LOP where it needs to be and there is very little recoil. That translates into the kid liking to shoot it and practicing more. More practice means better accuracy and better odds of a clean kill.

[Mobuck]

As long as the twist rate is faster than 1-12", bullets up to 64 grains "should" be accurate enough. I have two .223 rifles with 1-10 or 1-12 twist and neither will shoot well with any bullet over 60 grains. My 22/250 with 1-12 will barely handle 63 grainers and my 220 Swift with 1-14 won't handle some 55 grainers. Even with those big cartridges, speed won't overcome the slow twist.

[T. O'Heir]

If he has the budget, Browning make their X-bolt SSA Predator Hunter with 1 in 8. MSRP is a grand though.
I'd let her try a .243 first. Assuming it can be done. Dealing with felt recoil has nothing to do with a shooter's size or age. A semi-auto would deal with most of the felt recoil too.
Had a small statured, female, Army Cadet who could shoot circles around most of the big, strapping, male, teenage, lumps with either a .303 bolt action or an 7.62NATO FAL.

[Rimfire5]

With a 1:8 twist you will be able to shoot any bullet weight, up to 77 grains, that will fit in a magazine. Most mags won't take more than 2.270 to 2.275 OAL cartridges and most 80 grain and higher bullet weights have longer recommended OALs than that.

With a 1:7 twist, you can shoot heavier bullets than 77 grains but you would be wise to consider shooting with a single shot adapter if you have a magazine.

Also check the bolt action before you consider single shot loading. A push feed bolt instead of a controlled feed bolt would have a better chance of feeding a single round placed on top of the mag.
My CZ .223 has a Mauser-like controlled feed bolt and prefers to pick up the rim up from the mag. With a long cartridge, my mags won't take a cartridge over about 2.275 OAL. When you place a longer cartridge on top of the magazine using a controlled feed action for a single cartridge placed on top of the mag, the ejector doesn't always click over the rim as the cartridge feeds. There is a single shot adapter for a CZ that seems to work, but CZ doesn't sell 1:8 or faster twist barrels. They only sell 1:12 and 1:9 so using single shot loads with really long OALs doesn't matter much unless you are trying to minimize the jump to the rifling like I was doing.

If you want to shoot bullets of 80 or 90 grains with a 1:7, you might want to consider single shot TC rifles, assuming you can get one with a 1:7 twist, since they don't have a bolt feed mechanism to fight with.

[kraigwy]

1:8 vs. 1:7????

Simple answer.

The 1:7 will shoot anything the 1:8 will shoot, but the 1:8 wont shoot everything the 1:7 will.

[Jimro]

KraigWY,

That is true. Also true that a 1:8 will launch all the premium 22 caliber hunting bullets, so there is no effective difference for hunting purposes.

Jimro

[NHSHOOTER]

I am sure the 1in8 or even 1in9 would be just fine for his purpose now that I know we will be using nosler premium bullets in the 60 to 64 gr class and with a 1in9 he will even be able to pop woodchucks with 50 grainers if he is so disposed.

[curmudgeon1]

I bought one of the recently released Ruger .223 Gunsite Scout Rifles; it's chambered in NATO 5.56 with a 1-8" twist. I only shoot paper so only use 55 grain .223 Rem. Longer barrel life and lower cost ammo.

[Pilot]

1:8 vs. 1:7????

Simple answer.

The 1:7 will shoot anything the 1:8 will shoot, but the 1:8 wont shoot everything the 1:7 will.

That may be true, but will the 1:7 shoot 55 grain as accurately as the 1:8? My Colt M4/LE6920 is a sub MOA rifle bench rested with 62 grain Federal M855 green tip. With 55 grain Federal M193, it opens up a little bit more than one inch at 100 yards. Not a huge deal, but I do notice the accuracy difference.

[tobnpr]

A lot of different factors determine bullet stability, here's a calculator from JBM that takes out the guesswork:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

[4thPoint]

1:8 vs. 1:7????

Simple answer.

The 1:7 will shoot anything the 1:8 will shoot, but the 1:8 wont shoot everything the 1:7 will.

Unless the shooter is concerned with shooting M856 tracer or similar, a 1:8 will do everything. The Army only went with 1:7 because the length of the tracer bullet would not stabilize in the 1:9 barrel the Army originally selected.
The tracer round is nearly a quarter of an longer than the next longest round. It's a full half-inch longer than the 55grain ball round.

American Rifleman article on the subject.