Powder and primer self life

Hunter_17 · March 16, 2014, 02:31 PM

How long will powder and primer stay good if stored proper? They were stored in a ammo can is a trunk I'm a basement that stayed cool and dry.

I am not sure how old it is but maybe by these pic you all can help age it. It was all my grandpa stuff, he just past away at age of 92. He served in many wars so I think it's from them.

Most of the powder was unopened. I opened one this morning and it smelt fine compared to the open ones. I heard that if they smell like vinegar they are bad.

I was just gonna used the unopened powder. Are they worth more money if they all that old.

Use or don't use?

Hunter_17 · March 16, 2014, 02:33 PM

thekyrifleman · March 16, 2014, 02:37 PM

If the powders have a sweet smell, they are probably ok. I have some H 4831, and 110 in the same type of containers and they shoot just fine. Also have RWS primers that are at least 45 years old and they go bang just fine also. Biggest issue is how they have been stored. Seem like your grandpa knew what he was doing!!

243winxb · March 16, 2014, 02:42 PM

. Primers a very long time. Federal has said 10 years.

nemesiss45 · March 16, 2014, 04:00 PM

I have some hodgdon of the same vintage I just loaded and shot last week. I also have a can of unique from the early 70s that I still load and shoot in my .45.

Just remember.... keep the cans to decorate your shelves when youre done with them

**Unclenick** · March 16, 2014, 04:26 PM

10 years seems awfully fast. I've got Federal primers a lot older than that which still work just fine. They do weaken some eventually. The military puts a 20 year limit on loaded ammo stockpiled with spherical propellant, and a 45 year limit on single-base stick propellant. That also means they work fine until then, primers included.

What happens is the powder breaks down nitric acid compounds by tiny amounts constantly. Once loose in the powder, these encourage the rest of the powder to break down. So to limit the damage to the tiny spontaneous breakdown amounts, the powder has compounds called stabilizers in it that scavenge the acid radicals to prevent spreading damage. Eventually, the stabilizer is used up. That's what the time limits are about. At that point breakdown accelerates.

Once that starts to happen, things can go a couple of different ways. The powder gets weaker in both instances, but in path the deterrent coatings are eaten up faster than the powder weakens, leaving you with a powder that has a faster burn rate than it did originally. Look up member Slamfire's posts on this. He's got references and pressure test results and blown up guns, too.

Watch out for the smell. Shake some of the powder onto a piece of white paper and toss it a little, and then gently push the powder aside and look for reddish dust left behind. Black is just graphite. Red, though, is a nitric acid compound. If shaking a spoonful of powder with an ounce of water produces yellow water, that can also be a sign of the nitric acid production.

RC20 · March 16, 2014, 05:44 PM

Well as far as I know, no one collects old powder. Sort of like an old wine, buy it at the peak but its going to go bad so you have to sell it at the peak or drink it!

Containers look good and I have got power out of far worse ones that were good. I like the older metal containers or the new plastic ones (I transferred some old powder into those new ones being very careful to label them correctly). I got a couple of pounds of W 748 in cardboard that looked awful on the outside but inside was clean, powder checked and I did test shoot. All good and have used it for target loads.

You might want to keep the containers and do a bit of on line research.

I have used powders 30+ years old that were kept in good conditions. Ditto with primers and some that actually got the carton wet and they shot ok.

You have the tests above before you use and I would, you never know.

The primers I was not sure of I just put on in a non loaded shell and popped it off and got a good bang (I also did hte same with a new one so I was sure what a normal noise level was)

For the powder I would go with lower loads, use it for target and see how it does. If ok amp it up, but these days I never shoot anything more than a bit over mid, I don't think you get anything for it even for hunting. The right bullet and shot placement are far more important.

Mohave-Tec · March 16, 2014, 10:41 PM

Every pistol round I load is charged with Winchester Action Pistol of 1994 vintage. I couldn't tell if it wasn't made yesterday.
I've got two tins of 7.62x54r made in 1971 but the ammo looks and shoots like it was made yesterday. Bombs from WWII are still exploding in Germany.

Bart B. · March 17, 2014, 12:11 PM

Some of the top ranked long range competitors have had older primers not detotate uniformly enough and the result was vertical shot stringing. Changing to a new lof of the same 8-year-old ones seemed to shoot more consistant without vertical stringing. A few who've done muzzle velocity tests showed they shoot bullets a bit slower as well as irregular in speed.

PMC's primers made at the Murov plant near Moscow, Russia, proved to have a longer shelf life. Wolf took over their importing and now it's TulAmmo, I think. When the Russian plant's original web site was up, it commented on both their longevity as well as non-hazardous properties. TulAmmo's site doesn't mention longevity:

http://tulammousa.com/

Both powder and primers are chemicals. They change over time. How much depends on their specific chemistry and mix of different ones as well as the environment they're kept in. Whether or not one notices the difference depends on lots of things.

243winxb · March 17, 2014, 01:42 PM

Quote:

10 years seems awfully fast.

I agree. From Federal's website. Helps sell more components maybe? Use it or loose it.

Reminds me, i should go check the other 2 cans.

Nick_C_S · March 18, 2014, 07:45 PM

At least 27 years on both primers and powder - if stored properly. That being from personal experience. Been there, done that with 1400+ primers and a few pounds of pistol powder. Save for one slow primer "click-wait-wait-bang," all worked flawlessly.

Your pics look like stuff older than 27 years. But they also appear to have been properly stored. Personally, I'd go for it and load it.

kerreckt · March 18, 2014, 08:27 PM

I recently found some primers I hid away in 1982 or 1983. They all primed as they should. They had been stored in a cool dry place for the whole time. I have used powder that was 30+ years and it too, worked as it should. If stored properly these things would most likely last 50 years or more. In 1988 I found some .45acp ammo from 1918 and they all went bang. They had been in a barn for at least 60 of those years. Wished I had saved them, now.

March 16, 2014, 02:31 PM	#1
Hunter_17 Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 21	Powder and primer self life How long will powder and primer stay good if stored proper? They were stored in a ammo can is a trunk I'm a basement that stayed cool and dry. I am not sure how old it is but maybe by these pic you all can help age it. It was all my grandpa stuff, he just past away at age of 92. He served in many wars so I think it's from them. Most of the powder was unopened. I opened one this morning and it smelt fine compared to the open ones. I heard that if they smell like vinegar they are bad. I was just gonna used the unopened powder. Are they worth more money if they all that old. Use or don't use?

March 16, 2014, 04:26 PM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,057	10 years seems awfully fast. I've got Federal primers a lot older than that which still work just fine. They do weaken some eventually. The military puts a 20 year limit on loaded ammo stockpiled with spherical propellant, and a 45 year limit on single-base stick propellant. That also means they work fine until then, primers included. What happens is the powder breaks down nitric acid compounds by tiny amounts constantly. Once loose in the powder, these encourage the rest of the powder to break down. So to limit the damage to the tiny spontaneous breakdown amounts, the powder has compounds called stabilizers in it that scavenge the acid radicals to prevent spreading damage. Eventually, the stabilizer is used up. That's what the time limits are about. At that point breakdown accelerates. Once that starts to happen, things can go a couple of different ways. The powder gets weaker in both instances, but in path the deterrent coatings are eaten up faster than the powder weakens, leaving you with a powder that has a faster burn rate than it did originally. Look up member Slamfire's posts on this. He's got references and pressure test results and blown up guns, too. Watch out for the smell. Shake some of the powder onto a piece of white paper and toss it a little, and then gently push the powder aside and look for reddish dust left behind. Black is just graphite. Red, though, is a nitric acid compound. If shaking a spoonful of powder with an ounce of water produces yellow water, that can also be a sign of the nitric acid production. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 18, 2014, 07:45 PM	#11
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,521	At least 27 years on both primers and powder - if stored properly. That being from personal experience. Been there, done that with 1400+ primers and a few pounds of pistol powder. Save for one slow primer "click-wait-wait-bang," all worked flawlessly. Your pics look like stuff older than 27 years. But they also appear to have been properly stored. Personally, I'd go for it and load it. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

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March 16, 2014, 02:33 PM	#2
Hunter_17 Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 21

March 16, 2014, 02:37 PM	#3
thekyrifleman Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2007 Location: Northern Ky Posts: 254	If the powders have a sweet smell, they are probably ok. I have some H 4831, and 110 in the same type of containers and they shoot just fine. Also have RWS primers that are at least 45 years old and they go bang just fine also. Biggest issue is how they have been stored. Seem like your grandpa knew what he was doing!!

March 16, 2014, 02:42 PM	#4
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	. Primers a very long time. Federal has said 10 years.

March 16, 2014, 04:00 PM	#5
nemesiss45 Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2014 Posts: 526	I have some hodgdon of the same vintage I just loaded and shot last week. I also have a can of unique from the early 70s that I still load and shoot in my .45. Just remember.... keep the cans to decorate your shelves when youre done with them

March 16, 2014, 05:44 PM	#7
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Well as far as I know, no one collects old powder. Sort of like an old wine, buy it at the peak but its going to go bad so you have to sell it at the peak or drink it! Containers look good and I have got power out of far worse ones that were good. I like the older metal containers or the new plastic ones (I transferred some old powder into those new ones being very careful to label them correctly). I got a couple of pounds of W 748 in cardboard that looked awful on the outside but inside was clean, powder checked and I did test shoot. All good and have used it for target loads. You might want to keep the containers and do a bit of on line research. I have used powders 30+ years old that were kept in good conditions. Ditto with primers and some that actually got the carton wet and they shot ok. You have the tests above before you use and I would, you never know. The primers I was not sure of I just put on in a non loaded shell and popped it off and got a good bang (I also did hte same with a new one so I was sure what a normal noise level was) For the powder I would go with lower loads, use it for target and see how it does. If ok amp it up, but these days I never shoot anything more than a bit over mid, I don't think you get anything for it even for hunting. The right bullet and shot placement are far more important.

March 16, 2014, 10:41 PM	#8
Mohave-Tec Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2013 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 118	Every pistol round I load is charged with Winchester Action Pistol of 1994 vintage. I couldn't tell if it wasn't made yesterday. I've got two tins of 7.62x54r made in 1971 but the ammo looks and shoots like it was made yesterday. Bombs from WWII are still exploding in Germany.

March 17, 2014, 12:11 PM	#9
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Some of the top ranked long range competitors have had older primers not detotate uniformly enough and the result was vertical shot stringing. Changing to a new lof of the same 8-year-old ones seemed to shoot more consistant without vertical stringing. A few who've done muzzle velocity tests showed they shoot bullets a bit slower as well as irregular in speed. PMC's primers made at the Murov plant near Moscow, Russia, proved to have a longer shelf life. Wolf took over their importing and now it's TulAmmo, I think. When the Russian plant's original web site was up, it commented on both their longevity as well as non-hazardous properties. TulAmmo's site doesn't mention longevity: http://tulammousa.com/ Both powder and primers are chemicals. They change over time. How much depends on their specific chemistry and mix of different ones as well as the environment they're kept in. Whether or not one notices the difference depends on lots of things.

March 18, 2014, 08:27 PM	#12
kerreckt Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2011 Location: SE VA. Posts: 216	I recently found some primers I hid away in 1982 or 1983. They all primed as they should. They had been stored in a cool dry place for the whole time. I have used powder that was 30+ years and it too, worked as it should. If stored properly these things would most likely last 50 years or more. In 1988 I found some .45acp ammo from 1918 and they all went bang. They had been in a barn for at least 60 of those years. Wished I had saved them, now.