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Old February 22, 2009, 08:47 AM   #1
tpcollins
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New lock rings versus older slit version

In setting up my first reloading outfit, I bought a set of RCBS dies in .243 caliber. The lock rings are black with a brass set screw, and instructions say to put a shot (I used a #4) between the brass screw and the threads on the die which I did. I had to really snug it down to keep it from turning.

Then I saw pictures of older version dies online that has the lock ring with a slit through one side with the set screw goes through that slit and it "squeezes" the ring together against the die threads. This seems like a better method to keep the ring from loosening.

Are the older split rings better or did I just do a poor job in setting mine up? Thanks.
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Old February 22, 2009, 10:29 AM   #2
billcarey
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Based on my experience from best to worst...

Split ring
Solid ring with set screw
Friction (a distant 3rd)
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Old February 22, 2009, 11:24 AM   #3
SL1
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The split rings have a disadvantage whn setting-up dies. When you tighten the split ring with the die in its proper adjustment in a press, it jams the die on the press. It takes substantial force to turn the die out of the press, and turning it back-in hand-tight will leave it a little bit farther out than it was when you tightened the split ring. So, you need to mess with them a little, taking this into account, if you intend to set your dies very accurately.

SO, I actually prefer the set screw dies rings with a piece of lead or plastic shot under the screw. But, when you tighten the set screw hard to deform the shot, the shot sticks to the die pretty hard, even when you loosen the set screw. Putting a little lubricant on the die threads before tightening the set screw will help fix that. If not, you may need pliers to move the ring. But, once you deform the shot to the threads and then move it (with or without lube) it moves easily thereafter and is the best setup for easily and accurately adjusting the die again in the future.

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Old February 22, 2009, 01:23 PM   #4
snuffy
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http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=391359

These are the best IMHO. I bought enough of them to put on every die that WASN'T made by Hornady.

Quote:
The split rings have a disadvantage whn setting-up dies. When you tighten the split ring with the die in its proper adjustment in a press, it jams the die on the press. It takes substantial force to turn the die out of the press, and turning it back-in hand-tight will leave it a little bit farther out than it was when you tightened the split ring. So, you need to mess with them a little, taking this into account, if you intend to set your dies very accurately.
I too have noticed this, BUT I use either dillon, co-ax, or lee turrets for my loading. This means I can screw them in and leave them,(not really enough room on the lee turrets). The forster co-ax, once adjusted, just slides the die in and out to change operations.
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Old February 22, 2009, 01:40 PM   #5
jaguarxk120
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I now have two turret presses and the split rings, once adjusted and locked down will live in their holes for a long time.

It may be an extra step to loosen a lock screw to release the die, but they do not move during use. I haven't found it to be a disadvantage, but a plus in the loading room.
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Old February 22, 2009, 01:41 PM   #6
billcarey
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snuffy, I'm not sure I get what you are saying. How do you mean they don't fit a Lyman turret? I previously used splits on my Lyman Spar T turret and they fit just like the set screw ones on it now.
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Old February 22, 2009, 05:01 PM   #7
snuffy
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Quote:
(not really enough room on the LEE turrets)
The LCT (lee classic turret), 4 hole turrets don't have enough room for the Hornady split rings, they interfere with each other. But only if you use them on all 4 dies, you can get away with one die with them on it. If I had access to a lathe, I would turn a few of the split rings down on the O.D., so they would work on the lee turrets.

Not a big deal, actually the lee rings work quite well on the turrets. Once set and tightened down, they hold quite well. That's why they were made that way.
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Old February 22, 2009, 06:20 PM   #8
BigJakeJ1s
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I've had both set screw and cross-bolt (split) rings "lock up" on the press after tightening their set screw or cross-bolt. It is caused by the locking mechanism forcing the threads on one side (opposite the set screw) or both sides (either side of the cross bolt, really more all-around) of the die into closer alignment, eliminating the up-down play of the loose ring on the die threads.

Once you are aware of this, it is easy to adjust either type for ultimate accuracy while remaining hand tight. First, do not tighten the lock ring without the die being forced up by the ram and/or a cartridge. This takes the vertical play out between the die body and the press.

Second, roughly measure the fraction of a turn on the loose lock ring between just kissing the top of the press, and being snug against it.

You want to adjust the loose lock ring down on the die in the press half way (half the fraction of a turn found above) between just kissing and snug (keep in mind, "snug" does not mean wrench tight unless you want to use a wrench every time you install/remove the die). That way the threads on the lock ring are centered between the upper and lower limits of play, which centers it vertically in the threads. Tightening the set screw/cross-bolt there will not result in a vertical movement of the ring, and it will remain hand tight. You can play around with it until you get a feel for how much to back off of snug before you tighten the cross-bolt.

Set screw lock rings only force one side of the lock ring threads into alignment with the die threads, which can lead to dies that are locked in place, tilted slightly in the threads. Cross-bolt rings force all sides into closer alignment, eliminating any tilt (any that's due to remaining play, not manufacturing errors). If you don't center a set screw lock ring on the die threads as above, the lock ring can also loosen when you remove the die from the press.

Forster and Hornady include cross-bolt lock rings on their dies. Lyman sells a cross-bolt lock ring, but does not include it with their dies (their dies come with set screw lock rings). RCBS used to sell their dies with cross-bolt lock rings, but switched to the set screw type, first with steel, and then with brass set screws.

Andy
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Old February 22, 2009, 07:21 PM   #9
HiBC
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As far as what dial indicators and concentricity gages would say in fact,I do not know.
But,my machinist way of looking at things,thinking about how threads mesh and squareness,etc,theoretically pushing the ring off to one side would result on the lower surface of the lockring less likely to be square with the axis of the die.
That might have a small effect on how the die sits in the press.In sizing,hi loads might overcome this,but the low forces of seating might not.

My guess is,the split ring is slightly more likely to produce straight,concentric ammo. But,its just thinking.
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Old February 22, 2009, 08:06 PM   #10
tpcollins
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Has anyone tried using two lock rings? The reel seat on my Salmon fly rod has double lock rings to keep the reel secure, seems like it ought to work on reloading dies????
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Old February 22, 2009, 08:36 PM   #11
wncchester
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"But,my machinist way of looking at things,thinking about how threads mesh and squareness,etc,theoretically pushing the ring off to one side would result on the lower surface of the lockring less likely to be square with the axis of the die."

That's been true to some small extent on every die I've checked. So, I lathe turn the bottom of every such ring I own, while it's on the die it belongs to.
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Old February 22, 2009, 09:38 PM   #12
SL1
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Actually, I THINK split-rings tilt the die more than set screw rings. When you tighten the screw to close-up the split, you are slightly changing where the threads on the ring hit the threads on the die in the circumferential direction. One edge of the split goes down a little and one edge goes up a little, which locks the die to the press using the downward moving side. With a set screw ring, you pull the ring to one side of the die, but you don't necessarily tilt it. And, the lead shot deforms into the threads completely. I find them easier to unscrew than the split rings after tightening, so I THINK they tilt less.

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