What is the best 357 Sig bullet?

[Jim243]

Ok I have gone soft in the head. Just ordered my dies and picked up 200 cases for the 357 Sig. Now I have 115 gr FMJs and 124 gr HPs and 147 gr HPs in 9mm. Which would be the best bullet to use in the 357 Sig.

Jim

[freakshow10mm]

Depends what you want to do with it.

[snuffy]

Which would be the best bullet to use in the 357 Sig.

Whichever one has the major diameter of the bullet in front of the end of the neck. In other words, you cannot use the standard roundnosed 9mm bullet. It's ogive puts the bullet to deep inside or below the end of the neck. Some hollow points have too long of a taper to achieve this as well.

The reason for this is; the 357 sig has such a short neck, the full diameter of the bullet HAS to be held by it. Neck tension alone should hold the bullet, but to be real sure I use a lee FCD to collet crimp the bullet.

[Jim243]

freakshow you have to forgive me, it was my wife's birthday today and I have been running all day, so I am tired and pooped and a bit of a smart a--. I was going to say shoot them.(LOL)

But I really don't know what I am going to do with them. For some background I reload for 45 ACP, 40 S&W, 357 Mag, 38 Spl, 9 mm and 380 ACP. My favorite is the 45 ACP and if I want a SD gun I would use the first 3 listed, If I was in a good mood I would probably use one of the last three, just to be nice and save the expensive ammo, although I not sure how 17 rounds of 9mm in someone would save me any money.

But back to the question, I shoot IDPA and have in the past purchased two 9mm's and two 40 S&W's that I only use for this sport. The 45s were purchased a long time ago and are #1 SD calibers.

One of my 40's is being converted to 357 Sig with a custom drop in barrel. I have been reading a lot on the balistics of this round and have been inpressed with it's capabilities (shooting through windshields, through two people with the same shot, having almost as much punch as a 357 Mag and being able to carry 14 of them in my auto instead of 5 or 6 in a revolver).

My first intention is to use it for IDPA, it however may become my SD gun if the results work out as I expect.

I hope this answers your question.

Thanks
Jim

[Jim243]

Snuffy which is the most accurate weight for this round?

[freakshow10mm]

Neck tension alone should hold the bullet, but to be real sure I use a lee FCD to collet crimp the bullet.

The SIG is not a revolver and crimp does not hold adequate neck tension. Proper procedure is to ensure the expander plug or powder funnel is .350" diameter. This will give proper tension to prevent and eliminate bullet setback.

My first intention is to use it for IDPA, it however may become my SD gun if the results work out as I expect.

That's what I was looking for, but I appreciate your humor.

The SIG was designed around the 125gr bullet for defense. That being said, I like heavier bullets like the 147gr in the SIG. When I loaded this commercially, I used the 147gr GDHP for defense and the 147gr XTP for hunting. Practice was the 124gr Berry's HP. Longshot and #7 are your powders of choice.

[Jim243]

Thank you, I need to get some #7.

Jim

[vladan]

As snuffy said, for 357sig you need you need bullet that has special profile for the s57sig cartridge. Most bullets are in 124, 125g range. in 115g I have used Nosler 115g JHP, in 124 the Gold Dots, hornady XTP HPs, also TC FMJ (the complete jacketed cone nose bullet), Montana Gold has special bullets for 357sig, sierra has fmj with sig profile ...
heavier bullets don't leave enough space in case for powder so performance suffer with heavier bullets. 357sig was designed for 125g bullet to duplicate effect of 125g 357magnum rounds

[vladan]

best powder for 357sig is aa#9 - the 13grains of this powder under 125grain bullet will almost fill up the case and effectively hold the bullet, prevent it from setback. My load is 125g Montana gold bullet ( .355 diameter 357sig profile - thousand for 107.00 delivered) over the 13grains of AA#9. Also here is my older thread that might interest you : http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=405689

[Brian Pfleuger]

Hornady XTPs and Speer GDs but work well. They're all that I've used so far.

AA#9 solves any potential set back issues, but those can be solved with properly set up dies anyway. Power Pistol is a better performer.

[Jim243]

Thanks Peetza I saw before that you were loading for the 357 Sig. Just bought 2 lbs more of Power Pistol last month and have not used up my first pound. Will try that out, but I bought 500 Berry's 124 gr HP a while back and they did not work out for my 9's, I'll try some test loads and see if I can use them up first. Nice choice on the Gold Dots and XTPs my favorites but a bit pricy, still paying off the custom barrel, dies and cases right now. Champaign taste on a beer budget.

Best to you all and Thanks

Jim

[Loader9]

I have a SIG 2340 that one of my trappers bought and it has the 357 SIG barrel as well as the 40 SW. Speer makes a special Gold Dot bullet for the SIG, it a 125 gr GDHP item #4360. The item number is critical because there is also a .355 GDHP but it's not for the SIG. I'm using a max load of 8.0 grs Unique powder which puts the powder to the bottom of the neck so it's a compressed load like the AA9 would be. I'm using CCI standard primers. COL is 1.135 and I'm using the Lee factory crimp die. I've run the same rounds thru the gun by working the slide hard and none of the bullets have a set back issue even after several times thru the gun. The pistol is shooting this load just a hair over an inch at 25 yds from bags. A nickle won't quite cover the groups but a quarter does with room to spare. The gist here is that you are not limited to the powders but the bullets have to be fairly blunt, a long nose won't work like what is said above. If you use the Lee factory crimp die, if adjusted correctly, you won't have an issue with bullet set back.

[snuffy]

The SIG is not a revolver and crimp does not hold adequate neck tension.

Duh! Why did you think I meant it was a revolver? Notice I did NOT write it as .357.



These are the lee TL356-124-TC. boolit, lubed with lee liquid alox. I use power pistol by Alliant in these and my 125 HAP bullets. It also nearly fills the case giving support to the bullet.

My pistol is a Glock m-22 with a KKM drop in barrel in 357 sig. I had to buy some heavier springs, to take the extra power.

The claim to fame for the 357 sig is to duplicate the power of a .357 magnum shooting 125 grain bullets. Which if it's loaded with 124-125 grain bullets, it does.

[Jim243]

Thanks Snuffy those are neat looking bullets.

Jim

[rg1]

Check out this article from Guns and Ammo on-line:
http://www.gunsandammo.com/
Hurry before they take it off their present issue.

[freakshow10mm]

Snuffy, I know you know the SIG isn't a revolver cartridge but your statement regarding crimping the bullet in place is inaccurate. The crimp does not hold the bullet in place. Neck tension does. Squeezing the crap out of the neck to hold the bullet is a poor way to make ammunition and will lead to other problems such as increased pressure due to more resistance present to overcome.

If you properly size your brass you won't have issue. A crimp on an auto pistol does not hold the bullet in place. That was my point.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Neck tension is not always sufficient to hold the bullet in the Sig. A crimp does not effect pressure in the 357sig in any significant way. The shape of the case allows the pressure to expand the neck and mouth away from the bullet. The pressure does not have to directly overcome the crimp the way that it would in a straight walled case.

However, using the FCD do produce excessive crimp CAN actually decrease holding strength because brass "springs" back more than the bullet and you can actually lose tension. I have found that minimizing flare and seating and crimping in two seperate steps is the best chance of eliminating setback.

[snuffy]

Adam, I know that too. But the lack of a crimp, or no crimp, means the flare is still on the end of the neck. In a normal loading of an auto pistol cartridge, it doesn't matter much, the rest of the neck has plenty of grip. I certainly don't set the lee FCD to crimp hard enough to deform the bullet, just take the flare away, and set the case neck into the bullet slightly.

I certainly agree that crimping is no replacement for a good case neck tension. It doesn't solve bullet hold at all.

[Peter M. Eick]

I like Remington 115 grn JHP's for general 357 loading. Accurate, cheap and reliable.

[Jim243]

Ok, now you guys have me worried on bullet set back. I know the case neck does not have a lot of bearing surface with such a short neck. I will be sure that neck size is correct and run off 25 dummy rounds before starting to load for real.

Thanks
Jim

[SL1]

that it would produce a crimp like the bottle-neck rifle version of that die. But, it doesn't. It is a collet-type die, like the bottleneck rifle version, but it still seems to be intended to produce a taper crimp.

I have been trying (unsuccessfully, so far) to produce 357 Sig ammo that uses a roll crimp into a cannelure on the bullet. The problem is lack of bullets with a cannelure in the necessary location.

Yes, I know that lots of manuals and gun writers say that the 357 Sig headspaces on the case mouth. But, it certainly doesn't HAVE to do that. I headspace them on the shoulder, leaving the case heads about 0.002"-to-0.003" below flush in the chamber. No problems with shoulder set-back from firing pin strikes (as the gun writers keep alleging) and no ignition problems, even with CCI magnum primers.

The ONE problem with the Sig is the potential for setback. Relying on the case mouth tension to prevent it is doable, but requires a LOT of attention. For example ONE case with unusually thin wall thickness at the mouth can cause THAT case to allow setback when it feeds and over-pressure when fired. So, from a reliability and ease of reloading standpoint, I would PREFER a bullet that is crimped with a roll crimp into a cannelure, just like we use for cartridges used in tubular magazines. Because the case mouth is then situated when the bullet impinges on it if the bullet starts to set-back, it is the MOST effective way to stop the bullet from moving in that direction.

But, the gun writers and factories still persist in claiming that this cartridge NEEDS to headspace on the mouth, and ignore this potential improvement.

SL1

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by SL1

But, the gun writers and factories still persist in claiming that this cartridge NEEDS to headspace on the mouth, and ignore this potential improvement.

That's a pretty amazing claim too, considering that I have yet to see a case long enough to even make that possible, say nothing of required.

[jeffreybehr]

Speaking of headspacing on the mouth v. shoulder and cannelured bullets, see this great info on RealGuns.
http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar65.htm

TY rg1 for the G&A article.

[asavo757]

Jim,
Those Berry hp's you have will work fine.I load them with 8.5 grains of longshoot.Very snappy! I do use a lee 357 sig fac crimp die but just for a little extra not to much! I also use nickle cases instead of brass the neck seems to be a little stiffer.I also run them threw a 40 S&W fac.crimp die after that. They come out tight.
Anthony
Wow that was my first reply I registered today

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by asavo757

I also run them threw a 40 S&W fac.crimp die after that. They come out tight.

A 40SW (or 10mm) factory crimp die will have no effect whatsoever on the neck of a 357sig round.

I use a 10mm carbide sizing die before my 357sig steel die. While the 10mm die does size the case slightly smaller than the sig die otherwise would, I fail to see what advantage there would be to running a finished round through a 40SW FCD. It seems to me that the most likely effect, if any, would be to LOOSEN the neck tension.