Using a silencer

Doug.38PR · October 1, 2005, 04:59 PM

It is legal to get a silencer (some people suppressor and say that silencer is a hollywood term...but I dunno) in some states if you register it with the county sheriff I'm told.
I really don't know why they are so regulated (I guess people feel they are nothing but an assassins tool to quietly kill someone....but then so is a knife

It's all effeminate pychology I guess, just like switchblade knives, they used to be .50 cents in the local drugstore now they are banned because the first thing you ID a SBK with is a hood with a leather jacket and greasy hair like the Fonz (okay he was a reformed hood, I won't disrespect the Fonz

).) The Geneva convention outlaws silencers in war too I understand.
Anyway, it would seem to me that a silencer for your revolver or auto would be, in a way, ideal for this reason: It is quieter and you won't go deaf if you have to use the gun indoors or in your car.
I've been told that a silencer can be as quiet as a Coke bottle opening for the first time (depending on the type of silencer I suppose).
Anyone have any experience with silencers?
When driving in my car, or even sometimes on my person, I wouldn't mind having one on my pistol if it mean't that I (and others) wouldn't have ringing ears or deaf ears after having to use the gun to shoot some thug. On the other hand, the downside is it would be some other bulky item to give more bulk and length to the gun (harder to conceal on person and clear holster).

Any thoughts?

Doug

smince · October 1, 2005, 05:25 PM

You will probably get more and better response in the "Full Auto" section.

Suppressors (technical name) aren't "illegal" in war. Spec-Ops use them all the time, and I believe they are starting to be used by some regular troops.

Revolvers aren't easy to suppress because of the barrel/cylinder gap.

Suppressors are NFA. You must get Fed and local approval to own. Same basic rules as for owning a full-auto weapon. If the local jurisdiction approves, and you are legally able to buy other firearms, you fill out the forms, then pay the $200 tax (+cost of suppressor), wait for approval and you become the proud owner.

Doug.38PR · October 1, 2005, 05:28 PM

that's right, they do use suppressors.
So why did I think that silencers were illegal? Were they illegal in WW2? Did the Geneva Convention amend the articles of war since then?

smince · October 1, 2005, 05:34 PM

Nope. OSS and the Brits had suppressed STEN and Delisle carbines in WWII, along with High Standard .22's. Probably others I'm forgetting.

Hiram Maxim designed the first practical "silencer" during or before WWI. I'm not sure if they were used then, but I believe they were.

I'll defer to the experts. I only have a general knowledge of this subject.

shaggy · October 1, 2005, 05:57 PM

As Smince said, its tough to get any sort of decent level of supression out of a revolver because of the gap. Autos supress far more easily, but the extra weight of the "can" on the end of the barrel can cause cycling problems if you use a can thats too heavy or not designed for the weapon. Additionally, the best supression comes only with subsonic ammo, so if you're planning on using something like a 9mm, you need to use subsonic ammo for the best results.

The big problem with using a supressor on a carry type handgun is that it adds bulk. And because most handgun supressors are made of aluminum to minimize weight to ensure proper cycling the attachment mechanism can be a weak point. IOW, many handgun supressors are simply a "screw-on" type mechanisim. With aluminum threads mated to a steel barrel, or even with a steel endcap on an aluminum supressor, adding too much force to the end of the supressor can bend the threads, the supressor, or both which will misalign the can and result in baffle strikes. Ultimately that will destroy the "can" and it can be quite a dangerous situation for the user. Bottom line - once the "can" is attached, you need to be careful you don't bang it around - its a somewhat delicate, precision instrument.

Additionally, should you ever have to use it in self defense, you may face far more scrutiny from a prosecutor and possibly a plaintiff's attorney than if you just used an unsupressed weapon. To a prosecutor or plaintiff's attorney, it may appear more as if you set out looking for trouble.

As far as legalities go, most states allow supressors. If yours does, you'll need to locate a seller in your state or a c3 dealer in your state. Whether you buy it directly from another resident of your state or through a dealer in your state, you'll need to pay a $200 transfer tax, complete a form 4 in duplicate (see www.titleii.com), complete TWO FBI fingerprint cards routed to the firearms & explosives division, one US citizenship certification form, and you'll be good to go. The F4 will require you to get an approval from your local sheriff or chief of police (which is completely discretionary) and list a reason for your need (no big deal - I use "the pursuit of happiness"). The forms take about 90 days to get approved, once you have an approved form back in your possession you can finally go pick up your supressor and take it home.

SAXD9 · October 1, 2005, 07:15 PM

IMO a supressor would be a fun 'toy' for the range or backyard plinking, but not very practical for carry.

I just went through firearms re-cert, so these facts are fresh on my mind.

In a life or death shooting situation, you get a massive dump of adrenaline. That adrenaline rush causes a loss of fine motor skills, narrows your vision down to about 18", and causes your hearing to shut down.

Now, granted I've never been in a shootout, BUT I did experience this once a few years ago when I shot my first deer. All I could see was my target, and I never heard the shot when I dropped the hammer on my .30-30.

Ok, I'm rambling but it looked like they'd already answered the legality question.

smince · October 1, 2005, 08:39 PM

Seems like I remember reading that suppressors are actaully easier to get in some countries than here. Seems they cut down on noise pollution and you can shoot without bothering the sheeple.

Doug.38PR · October 2, 2005, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Now, granted I've never been in a shootout, BUT I did experience this once a few years ago when I shot my first deer. All I could see was my target, and I never heard the shot when I dropped the hammer on my .30-30.

OH I've fired a 12 gauge outside dove hunting without hearing protection. But there is a BIG difference between hearing a gun outside and hearing it enclosed in four walls of a room or four windows of a car.

Heck, I fired off my .36 Navy out in the deserts of West Texas. Funny, It was the only kind of pistol I had at the time and our cars had been broken into. it was about 2 years ago. I loaded 5 shots into the black powder ball and cap pistol, kept one chamber empty for the hammer to rest and kept it in my drawer. no other way to unload it except fire it. so after about 3 or 4 weeks of it sitting in the drawer, I happen to drive out from Houston to west texas around Sanderson on business (it's John Ford country out there, I expected Indians on horseback to be chasing my Explorer down the highway with arrows sticking out the back of the car

). I pulled over to the side of the road and fired all five shots at a cactus or something on the ground. (or an imaginary Indian on horseback with a lance

) They sounded like nothing more than clapping my hands together. I even wondered if the caps had only popped and not fired the powder. Back in East Texas I fired off that same gun a few times without hearing and it thundered all across the lake and woods. Indoors I would be deaf.

T. O'Heir · October 2, 2005, 12:47 AM

"...The Geneva convention outlaws silencers in war too I understand..." Nope. Not even the Hague conventions mention suppressors.
"...It is legal to get a silencer..." Yep, but it's State and U.S. Federal laws not your local sheriff. If your State doesn't allow them, you're done. And 'suppressor' is the correct term. Hollywood calls them silencers.
"...no other way to unload it except fire it..." Inexperienced operator failure.

MD_Willington · October 2, 2005, 11:08 AM

This is my favorite quote regarding suppressors but it is in regards to Norway, not the USA...

Quote:

Oh, and by the way silencers are available over the counter - no registration or anything. The use of a silencer is seen as an act of good neighborliness.

smince · October 2, 2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Yep, but it's State and U.S. Federal laws not your local sheriff. If your State doesn't allow them, you're done.

True, but even if the State does make allowances, your local C.L.E.O. has to sign off on it. I had to get Sheriff's approval for an SBR.

Eightball · October 2, 2005, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Oh, and by the way silencers are available over the counter - no registration or anything. The use of a silencer is seen as an act of good neighborliness.

I'm moving

. JK,.....at least, I'm kidding until dems start up the AWB nonsense again.......

MicroBalrog · October 2, 2005, 04:47 PM

Eightball - or join the NFAOA. Better chances.

Are you the same eightball of Awbansunset.com?

Danzig · October 2, 2005, 08:13 PM

one of the guys in my unit just signed for the Barret .50 cal that he will be taking to Iraq. It has one humungous silencer on it!

shaggy · October 2, 2005, 08:17 PM

Quote:

one of the guys in my unit just signed for the Barret .50 cal that he will be taking to Iraq. It has one humungous silencer on it!

Gem-tech Stormfront?

jsp98m3 · October 2, 2005, 08:35 PM

Quote:

I wouldn't mind having one on my pistol if it mean't that I (and others) wouldn't have ringing ears or deaf ears after having to use the gun to shoot some thug.

Now that wasn't even on my list of things to worry about in my mind if I had to kill another human being.

Quote:

I pulled over to the side of the road and fired all five shots at a cactus or something on the ground. (or an imaginary Indian on horseback with a lance)

Gasp! Wait until the PC police read this one. You'll need that gun sooner than you think.

MicroBalrog · October 3, 2005, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Now that wasn't even on my list of things to worry about in my mind if I had to kill another human being.

Maybe it wasn't... but it is possible to get permanent hearing damage when shooting in a confined space.

USP45usp · October 3, 2005, 08:54 PM

Quote:

your local C.L.E.O. has to sign off on it. I had to get Sheriff's approval for an SBR.

IIRC, if you "incorporate" yourself (create a corporation) then you don't have to have CLEO to sign off.

I could be wrong, mind is still muddled.

Wayne

swmike · October 3, 2005, 09:04 PM

Some states, Washington is one, just plain don't allow them. Corporation, LLC, or anything. State Law is specific.

smince · October 4, 2005, 06:22 PM

Quote:

IIRC, if you "incorporate" yourself (create a corporation) then you don't have to have CLEO to sign off.

True, but if the corporation "dissolves" you are left with a technically unregistered NFA device.

mikikanazawa · October 8, 2005, 01:46 AM

As far as suppressor use by professionals... get this, there are actually OSHA regs on how much sound damping a suppressor must have.

October 1, 2005, 04:59 PM	#1
Doug.38PR Junior member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Posts: 3,298	Using a silencer It is legal to get a silencer (some people suppressor and say that silencer is a hollywood term...but I dunno) in some states if you register it with the county sheriff I'm told. I really don't know why they are so regulated (I guess people feel they are nothing but an assassins tool to quietly kill someone....but then so is a knife It's all effeminate pychology I guess, just like switchblade knives, they used to be .50 cents in the local drugstore now they are banned because the first thing you ID a SBK with is a hood with a leather jacket and greasy hair like the Fonz (okay he was a reformed hood, I won't disrespect the Fonz ).) The Geneva convention outlaws silencers in war too I understand. Anyway, it would seem to me that a silencer for your revolver or auto would be, in a way, ideal for this reason: It is quieter and you won't go deaf if you have to use the gun indoors or in your car. I've been told that a silencer can be as quiet as a Coke bottle opening for the first time (depending on the type of silencer I suppose). Anyone have any experience with silencers? When driving in my car, or even sometimes on my person, I wouldn't mind having one on my pistol if it mean't that I (and others) wouldn't have ringing ears or deaf ears after having to use the gun to shoot some thug. On the other hand, the downside is it would be some other bulky item to give more bulk and length to the gun (harder to conceal on person and clear holster). Any thoughts? Doug

October 1, 2005, 07:15 PM	#6
SAXD9 Member Join Date: September 8, 2005 Location: NW North Carolina Posts: 85	IMO a supressor would be a fun 'toy' for the range or backyard plinking, but not very practical for carry. I just went through firearms re-cert, so these facts are fresh on my mind. In a life or death shooting situation, you get a massive dump of adrenaline. That adrenaline rush causes a loss of fine motor skills, narrows your vision down to about 18", and causes your hearing to shut down. Now, granted I've never been in a shootout, BUT I did experience this once a few years ago when I shot my first deer. All I could see was my target, and I never heard the shot when I dropped the hammer on my .30-30. Ok, I'm rambling but it looked like they'd already answered the legality question. __________________ ~GhostDog~ Springfield Armory XD-9 Service Model/Winchester Ranger SXT 127gr +P+ JHP Beretta 21A .22LR/ CCI Quik-Shoks Norinco SKS/ Wolf 7.62x39 FMJ

October 2, 2005, 04:47 PM	#13
MicroBalrog Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2002 Posts: 1,165	Eightball - or join the NFAOA. Better chances. Are you the same eightball of Awbansunset.com? __________________ NFAOA Repeal 922(o)!

October 2, 2005, 08:13 PM	#14
Danzig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2005 Location: Fort Carson, Colorado Posts: 896	one of the guys in my unit just signed for the Barret .50 cal that he will be taking to Iraq. It has one humungous silencer on it! __________________ Fide et Fortitudine - My family motto "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences of attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it" - Thomas Jefferson

October 3, 2005, 09:04 PM	#19
swmike Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2005 Location: Marysville, WA Posts: 670	Some states, Washington is one, just plain don't allow them. Corporation, LLC, or anything. State Law is specific. __________________ My definition of Gun Control--- A steady grip and hitting your target. "In God we trust, all others are suspects." "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying, either I won't need any more, or more won't be of any help". ____________________________________________

October 1, 2005, 05:25 PM	#2
smince Junior member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Location: Northeast Alabama Posts: 2,580	You will probably get more and better response in the "Full Auto" section. Suppressors (technical name) aren't "illegal" in war. Spec-Ops use them all the time, and I believe they are starting to be used by some regular troops. Revolvers aren't easy to suppress because of the barrel/cylinder gap. Suppressors are NFA. You must get Fed and local approval to own. Same basic rules as for owning a full-auto weapon. If the local jurisdiction approves, and you are legally able to buy other firearms, you fill out the forms, then pay the $200 tax (+cost of suppressor), wait for approval and you become the proud owner.

October 1, 2005, 05:28 PM	#3
Doug.38PR Junior member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Posts: 3,298	that's right, they do use suppressors. So why did I think that silencers were illegal? Were they illegal in WW2? Did the Geneva Convention amend the articles of war since then?

October 1, 2005, 05:34 PM	#4
smince Junior member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Location: Northeast Alabama Posts: 2,580	Nope. OSS and the Brits had suppressed STEN and Delisle carbines in WWII, along with High Standard .22's. Probably others I'm forgetting. Hiram Maxim designed the first practical "silencer" during or before WWI. I'm not sure if they were used then, but I believe they were. I'll defer to the experts. I only have a general knowledge of this subject.

October 1, 2005, 05:57 PM	#5
shaggy Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Posts: 1,519	As Smince said, its tough to get any sort of decent level of supression out of a revolver because of the gap. Autos supress far more easily, but the extra weight of the "can" on the end of the barrel can cause cycling problems if you use a can thats too heavy or not designed for the weapon. Additionally, the best supression comes only with subsonic ammo, so if you're planning on using something like a 9mm, you need to use subsonic ammo for the best results. The big problem with using a supressor on a carry type handgun is that it adds bulk. And because most handgun supressors are made of aluminum to minimize weight to ensure proper cycling the attachment mechanism can be a weak point. IOW, many handgun supressors are simply a "screw-on" type mechanisim. With aluminum threads mated to a steel barrel, or even with a steel endcap on an aluminum supressor, adding too much force to the end of the supressor can bend the threads, the supressor, or both which will misalign the can and result in baffle strikes. Ultimately that will destroy the "can" and it can be quite a dangerous situation for the user. Bottom line - once the "can" is attached, you need to be careful you don't bang it around - its a somewhat delicate, precision instrument. Additionally, should you ever have to use it in self defense, you may face far more scrutiny from a prosecutor and possibly a plaintiff's attorney than if you just used an unsupressed weapon. To a prosecutor or plaintiff's attorney, it may appear more as if you set out looking for trouble. As far as legalities go, most states allow supressors. If yours does, you'll need to locate a seller in your state or a c3 dealer in your state. Whether you buy it directly from another resident of your state or through a dealer in your state, you'll need to pay a $200 transfer tax, complete a form 4 in duplicate (see www.titleii.com), complete TWO FBI fingerprint cards routed to the firearms & explosives division, one US citizenship certification form, and you'll be good to go. The F4 will require you to get an approval from your local sheriff or chief of police (which is completely discretionary) and list a reason for your need (no big deal - I use "the pursuit of happiness"). The forms take about 90 days to get approved, once you have an approved form back in your possession you can finally go pick up your supressor and take it home.

October 1, 2005, 08:39 PM	#7
smince Junior member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Location: Northeast Alabama Posts: 2,580	Seems like I remember reading that suppressors are actaully easier to get in some countries than here. Seems they cut down on noise pollution and you can shoot without bothering the sheeple.

October 2, 2005, 12:47 AM	#9
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...The Geneva convention outlaws silencers in war too I understand..." Nope. Not even the Hague conventions mention suppressors. "...It is legal to get a silencer..." Yep, but it's State and U.S. Federal laws not your local sheriff. If your State doesn't allow them, you're done. And 'suppressor' is the correct term. Hollywood calls them silencers. "...no other way to unload it except fire it..." Inexperienced operator failure.

October 8, 2005, 01:46 AM	#21
mikikanazawa Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2004 Posts: 449	As far as suppressor use by professionals... get this, there are actually OSHA regs on how much sound damping a suppressor must have.

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