#4 Enfield suitable as Scout??

Jake 98c/11b · December 9, 1999, 12:25 AM

I don't know if I should ask here but anyone have any ideas as to the suitability of the Enfield action as a basis for a scout rifle. I have always liked the scout concept but, lacking the funds, didn't figure on owning one for a while. Things changed when I read the latest edition of Tactical Shooter magazine that featured a customized Enfield. It started me thinking about a scout built upon a surplus Enfield action but will it make weight? Can it be done in a cost effective manner? I have long thought of the #4 mk1 as the greatest military bolt action rifle ever fielded but by smithing abilitys are limited at best. I have just worked a deal with a retired master machinist that will put me in his shop about 10 hours a week to help him and I was thinking this would be a good starting project if it is practical. Is it practical?

Robert Foote · December 9, 1999, 01:05 AM

I suspect that 'scout rifle' is coming to mean 'utility rifle'--which is probably a better description of what an Enfield makes up into. In all honesty, the process can be absurdly simple. I just put a #4 Mk. 1 action into an Advanced Technologies 'zytel' stock (available from Brownell's), removed the front sight ears and the short portion of barrel in front of the sight. That gives me a decent, practical cartridge, charger loading, aperture sights, and moderate weight. The only tricky parts were in learning to neck size the .303 brass for decent case life. One of these days I am going to load up some Sierra Match King bullets for it and see just what a $150 rifle will do.

------------------

George Stringer · December 9, 1999, 08:21 AM

Jake, I tend to agree with Robert. The addition of a lighter stock, perhaps a B-Square type scope mount that mounts forward of the action and a Tasco pistol scope would turn a lot of "the old vets" into very good scout rifles. You might even conside shortening the barrel to make it handier. George

James K · December 9, 1999, 12:00 PM

I am not sure I know what a Scout rifle is supposed to be except that it has to be blessed and anointed by somebody important and cost at least $2500. So you poor slobs can't even begin to consider one, and an Enfield certainly could not qualify. (How do you make those smiley faces?)

Seriously, the old No. 4 is a good rifle and can be made into a pretty good light rifle with a minimum of costly work. To my silly mind, the "Scout" rifles are ridiculous. They are so costly and so perfectly made that no one would ever take one into the field and if they did I doubt if all that precision fitting would work very long.

A good Mauser 98 or No.4 (better one converted to .308 or an Ishapore 2A) would be a very good rifle for the original idea. And if you leave one in the wrong place and a train runs over it, you haven't lost much (that is assuming the train hurt the gun, which it might not have).

Jim

BMWGS80 · December 9, 1999, 12:22 PM

I have converted an Ishapore .308 to a scout.

I call it the "Tiger scout". I am looking for extra magazines for it. Next I am looking to convert a couple of Mausers for the kids(26-32 years old). They do not have good bolt guns and I decided to set them up with at least a three gun battery.

Yes I agree that the scout concept has caterred to the "Elitest" crowd. Savage has tried to make a stab at it, but have real poor QC. I'll get a surplus gun and do the work myself to suit my desires on my budget.

A Three gun battery can be had for under $1000 with full customization of the guns to suit the individual if they do the work themselves. ALso a very good way to learn complete maintinance of the guns involoved.

Cheers,

ts

------------------

DeBee · December 9, 1999, 10:30 PM

Very practical. The Enfield makes a better than average pseudo-scout. The Ishapore .308 is even better. I doubt either will make weight to be classified as a "True Scout" even with the ATA synthetic stock, but then again, neither did some of Cooper's early experiments... Aren't we permitted to experiment with the concept?

The magazines really make the package... You can beat those military rifles off a brick wall and still come up shooting.

If you can find the .308 stepped barreled Mausers, a T/C mount sits perfectly on the step. The installation is more or less permanent, no iron sight back up...

I wouldn't cut the barrel back any farther than 20" in either caliber. The gun might be 40" but who cares- guess it will be just a "Utility Rifle"... Also, I've basically given up on the bipod. Sure, it's great at the range, but in the field, it adds weight and bulk, and it's nearly impossible to track a moving target. Military snipers don't use a bipod.

Jake 98c/11b · December 10, 1999, 10:54 PM

BMWGS80

Just curious, what makes up your $1000 three gun battery and what kind of customizing do you have in mind.

John Lawson · December 11, 1999, 05:35 PM

Be careful if you make a "Scout Rifle" because it seems that they go off accidentally in hotel meeting rooms.
Actually, the "scout rifle" concept is best exemplified by the Enfield #5 "jungle carbine," which has a rubber recoil pad and an adequate flash hider. The .303 caliber is adequate for taking any game on earth and while not as convenient to find as .308, it is available in a variety of loadings.
Scope mounts are available, as are aperture sights.

December 9, 1999, 12:25 AM	#1
Jake 98c/11b Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 1999 Posts: 471	I don't know if I should ask here but anyone have any ideas as to the suitability of the Enfield action as a basis for a scout rifle. I have always liked the scout concept but, lacking the funds, didn't figure on owning one for a while. Things changed when I read the latest edition of Tactical Shooter magazine that featured a customized Enfield. It started me thinking about a scout built upon a surplus Enfield action but will it make weight? Can it be done in a cost effective manner? I have long thought of the #4 mk1 as the greatest military bolt action rifle ever fielded but by smithing abilitys are limited at best. I have just worked a deal with a retired master machinist that will put me in his shop about 10 hours a week to help him and I was thinking this would be a good starting project if it is practical. Is it practical?

December 9, 1999, 01:05 AM	#2
Robert Foote Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1998 Posts: 623	I suspect that 'scout rifle' is coming to mean 'utility rifle'--which is probably a better description of what an Enfield makes up into. In all honesty, the process can be absurdly simple. I just put a #4 Mk. 1 action into an Advanced Technologies 'zytel' stock (available from Brownell's), removed the front sight ears and the short portion of barrel in front of the sight. That gives me a decent, practical cartridge, charger loading, aperture sights, and moderate weight. The only tricky parts were in learning to neck size the .303 brass for decent case life. One of these days I am going to load up some Sierra Match King bullets for it and see just what a $150 rifle will do. ------------------

December 9, 1999, 08:21 AM	#3
George Stringer Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Earlington KY Posts: 2,299	Jake, I tend to agree with Robert. The addition of a lighter stock, perhaps a B-Square type scope mount that mounts forward of the action and a Tasco pistol scope would turn a lot of "the old vets" into very good scout rifles. You might even conside shortening the barrel to make it handier. George

December 9, 1999, 12:00 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I am not sure I know what a Scout rifle is supposed to be except that it has to be blessed and anointed by somebody important and cost at least $2500. So you poor slobs can't even begin to consider one, and an Enfield certainly could not qualify. (How do you make those smiley faces?) Seriously, the old No. 4 is a good rifle and can be made into a pretty good light rifle with a minimum of costly work. To my silly mind, the "Scout" rifles are ridiculous. They are so costly and so perfectly made that no one would ever take one into the field and if they did I doubt if all that precision fitting would work very long. A good Mauser 98 or No.4 (better one converted to .308 or an Ishapore 2A) would be a very good rifle for the original idea. And if you leave one in the wrong place and a train runs over it, you haven't lost much (that is assuming the train hurt the gun, which it might not have). Jim

December 9, 1999, 12:22 PM	#5
BMWGS80 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 1999 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 288	I have converted an Ishapore .308 to a scout. I call it the "Tiger scout". I am looking for extra magazines for it. Next I am looking to convert a couple of Mausers for the kids(26-32 years old). They do not have good bolt guns and I decided to set them up with at least a three gun battery. Yes I agree that the scout concept has caterred to the "Elitest" crowd. Savage has tried to make a stab at it, but have real poor QC. I'll get a surplus gun and do the work myself to suit my desires on my budget. A Three gun battery can be had for under $1000 with full customization of the guns to suit the individual if they do the work themselves. ALso a very good way to learn complete maintinance of the guns involoved. Cheers, ts ------------------

December 9, 1999, 10:30 PM	#6
DeBee Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 1999 Posts: 408	Very practical. The Enfield makes a better than average pseudo-scout. The Ishapore .308 is even better. I doubt either will make weight to be classified as a "True Scout" even with the ATA synthetic stock, but then again, neither did some of Cooper's early experiments... Aren't we permitted to experiment with the concept? The magazines really make the package... You can beat those military rifles off a brick wall and still come up shooting. If you can find the .308 stepped barreled Mausers, a T/C mount sits perfectly on the step. The installation is more or less permanent, no iron sight back up... I wouldn't cut the barrel back any farther than 20" in either caliber. The gun might be 40" but who cares- guess it will be just a "Utility Rifle"... Also, I've basically given up on the bipod. Sure, it's great at the range, but in the field, it adds weight and bulk, and it's nearly impossible to track a moving target. Military snipers don't use a bipod.

December 10, 1999, 10:54 PM	#7
Jake 98c/11b Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 1999 Posts: 471	BMWGS80 Just curious, what makes up your $1000 three gun battery and what kind of customizing do you have in mind.

December 11, 1999, 05:35 PM	#8
John Lawson Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 1999 Posts: 281	Be careful if you make a "Scout Rifle" because it seems that they go off accidentally in hotel meeting rooms. Actually, the "scout rifle" concept is best exemplified by the Enfield #5 "jungle carbine," which has a rubber recoil pad and an adequate flash hider. The .303 caliber is adequate for taking any game on earth and while not as convenient to find as .308, it is available in a variety of loadings. Scope mounts are available, as are aperture sights.