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Old August 26, 2011, 11:09 PM   #76
The Canuck
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Irish52084,

I was on a course taught by Avi about two months ago and found his instruction to be illuminating. As for all of these allegations of falsehood, he never said anything about the Yamam, or operational duty. He did say he instructed police and special forces operators, but didn't lay claim to being one himself. I really liked the guy and regardless of what has been posted on the web, I would want this guy in my corner!

The syllabus was effectively taught and is effective.

Also, I should have checked before suggesting anybody look it up on the web! Live and learn.

Regardless, I would say if you have a chance to learn from Avi, do it. Worth every penny.
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Old August 29, 2011, 10:34 AM   #77
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I am going to take a stab (pardon the pun) at expressing my mindset on this. I am not an expert, and I won't claim to be. This is just an attempt to express my mindset.

Somewhere along my travels, I came across the concept of "threat zones." My thoughts employ this concept.

Zone A: Torso to torso contact. This is the groundfighting / grappling zone (though not necessarily on the ground). Short, fast strikes, like throat grabs and eye gouges work best here, as do blood and air chokes. Edged weapons are especially dangerous here as you are "too close" to see them until it is too late.

Zone B: Well within grasp. You can reach them with an elbow stike. Elbow, knee, and palm strikes work best here. You may or may not be "clenched" so grappling still works here, but this is primarily a "striking" zone. Edged weapons rule the roost. Pistols work, as can close combat with rifle or shotgun.

Zone C: Arm/ leg length away. This is the long punch and kick zone. Firearms may also work here as do edged weapons. This is the a transitional zone, where you are either moving into their B zone or trying to push them into your D zone.

Zone D: The moving in/ moving out zone. You are not in contact and you have to move in to make contact. This is the primary handgun zone. Some might call it 'spitting distance.' Again this is a transition zone, hence the "moving in/ moving out" moniker. Bayonets shine here.

Zone E: Target ID is easy (close visual range) but actual physical contact is not emminent. This is the convention "handgun zone" in most people's mindset. Shotguns and rifles start to become better options. This is the 7 to 50 yard zone.

Zone F: Target ID is possible, but more difficult. Shotguns without chokes are not as effective. Handguns are largely useless (to the average shooter/ BG) except as a deterrent. Slug equipped shotguns and rifles rule the roost. Pistols are a "trained operator" threat only, besides a "lucky shot." 50-200 yards.

Zone G: Target ID is very hard without optics. Rifles are the only viable option. Optics make target ID much easier. Depending on shooter and rifle this can extend to a half mile and beyond.

Zone H: Out of range. Threats are not within a range that they can be positively IDed as such. Alert, but not engaged... unless you are a mortarman or artilleryman.

This is just MY framework. It acts as a 'training guide' for me as I ponder and practice transitions to and from these "zones." It highlights why I believe no weapon is the "end all, be all," and illistrates why I believe a well-rounded approach is best. As I said at the start... I am no expert... this is just MY thoughts, born out of MY experience.

P.S. If you find fault in my reasoning, please let me know. I am always ready and willing to learn better ways to defend myself and my loved ones.
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Last edited by warrior poet; August 29, 2011 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Added an afterthought
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Old August 30, 2011, 05:00 PM   #78
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Another vote for Krav Maga. In our school (not sure how prevalent this is in other schools) to advance past levels 4 and above, they begin to work in CCW practice, firing range work, weapons (of all sorts) work, including using, disarming, unloading and making safe, etc. I love that concept and they are very open about when do you tactically, safely and legally go from hands to mechanical.

Krav Maga was, and is, designed to be used by the armed citizen. Think about it's origins and it's uses today in Israel.

Good luck and look for a good school. If you need thought on that, PM me and we can discuss. There are schools, there are good schools and there are schools put there that many people refer to as the "Wal-Mart" of Krav.
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Old August 30, 2011, 06:30 PM   #79
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Krav Maga get my vote as well and Im looking into it. Heres something I practice regularly and dont know if you guys do. As someone said SD distances could be very close. I practice drawing my 1911 and putting my left arm in front of my neck/lower face, as I do this I fire into the gut area of the target. I have gotten pretty good at this and am now hip shooting a decent group at 20ft. (nothing spectacular but pretty decent). I saw this in a combat handgunnery edition I have.
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Old August 31, 2011, 12:34 PM   #80
irish52084
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I really like the threat zone breakdown. I think it's pretty well thought out.

I have some serious doubts about krav maga, but I might have to give it a try. I have an acquaintance who speaks highly of krav maga and really enjoys it. My other issue, is the only krav maga school nearby me is pretty much known as a "McDojo", they try to claim they teach mma by showing dvd's. It's really sad.
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Old August 31, 2011, 12:46 PM   #81
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I'm sure there are firearms specific training course based around martial arts style. My favorite out of the box martial arts that relates well to firearms is Aikido. Any decent Aikido instructor will know and tell you that every offensive and defensive technic will work open handed or with a sword in your hand (this starts with the very first few things you are taught). The parallel is that in a defensive situation you would want to clear your centerline (not have a sword or gun in the path you are in). Offensively (gun or sword in your hands), it is also similar because your own sword cannot be brought to bear against you if someone grabs your hands; so your own gun during the technique will near be pointing at you (the offensive techniques in Aikido would be impossible if a 2-3 foot sword could be in your hands AND pointed at your body). Aikido isn't my favorite martial arts style but it works well for this application.
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Old August 31, 2011, 12:59 PM   #82
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He's absolutley right I thought I said Akidio too, can't believe I didnt mention it. I watched a 2 hour special on it and it uses all their weight and positions against them. This 6' 4" 240lbs. guy couldnt move a 5' 6" 150lb Japanese man while pushing against him. The Akidio Master wanted to show how it can be used for multiple opponents. He told 5 guys on the sidlines to come at him as hard as they could and do what they could. They all came at once and sure enough one by one he flipped them, hip tossed them, etc. and they kept coming and he kept defeating. I think Akidio probably would be best.
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Old August 31, 2011, 01:27 PM   #83
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Tyler, I don't know about videos... but I've trained in Aikido pretty regularly since 1996.

It may not be the best style out there for tournament use, and it may not lend itself to sparring, but it does a fantastic job of training disarms, grab escapes, and quick, clean takedowns against attackers.

And first and foremost, it trains the body to reflexively get out of the way of the attack, instead of standing there and trying to block.
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Old August 31, 2011, 02:18 PM   #84
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Yes it is amazing. This Japanese Akidio Master was incredible and a lot of the things they discribed makes sense. I think I might actually look into taking some classes.
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Old August 31, 2011, 06:44 PM   #85
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Whoa guys....

Before you talk about 'masters', keep in mind it took them maybe 20 years to get that 'masters'.

You got 20 years to study this stuff BEFORE you can use it effectively on the street?

And I say this as a 5th Dan Taekwodo practitioner as well as Krav Magaist and JKDist.

It should not take you one year to get good enough to be effective on the street.

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Old August 31, 2011, 07:22 PM   #86
TylerD45ACP
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LOL... I know Im not going to become a Master in 25days or even 25yrs. However, the show I was watching, this japanese man was a MASTER. He could do just about anthing to his opponents without them doing anything but getting tossed. I plan on and will study it for a long time I dont expect to be Chuck Norris by tomorrow. Though Id like his skill esp. in his movies .
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Old September 1, 2011, 10:14 AM   #87
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TylerD45ACP, great point. Having the drive to learn and study and continunously improve is of crucial importance. No matter how good you are today, if you stop training/ practicing, someday soon you will not possess the same skill.

Skill is a sumation of raw talent, drive, work ethic, practice and proper training. We each have varying degrees of each, and it behooves us all to take this to heart: "Know yourself, and seek self-improvement." I think I heard that somewhere...
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Old September 1, 2011, 11:18 AM   #88
TylerD45ACP
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Absolutley, practice is key. It doesnt make perfect but because no one is but you can get darn close .
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Old September 1, 2011, 11:24 AM   #89
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All self defense skills are perishable and you have to keep some sort of continuous training to keep those skills sharp and effective. You don't have to train 5 days a week to be effective on the street, but 2-3 times a week should be enough to keep you progressing and improving.

Something I was taught in jiu-jitsu was to have 1 or 2 submissions, escapes, sweeps etc from each position that you're really good at. Then you have a base of go to moves to work from and set up chains of submissions or sweeps etc... makes you more effective rather than trying to master 20 submissions form each position. It allows you to play to your strengths and applies to just about and form of defense.
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Old September 1, 2011, 08:54 PM   #90
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Same in judo.
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