Remington 1917 in 450 Hoffman?

winchester1917 · April 12, 2013, 09:38 AM

Hello,
First post here:
I have a Remington M1917 that has been sporterized and re-chambered/re-barreled and is now stamped "450 Hoffman"
I have no idea what this is. I have never heard of, and cannot find any information anywhere about a 450 Hoffman chambering.
I know the 1917's have been re-barreled in all shapes and sizes, but this one is very obscure to me.
Although I am not a firearms expert, I can usually find whatever info I need... not this time. Perhaps someone here can help.
Has anyone seen or heard of this? Is it a pseudonym for something else?

PetahW · April 12, 2013, 12:40 PM

AFAIK, ther were two separate Hoffman's making guns before WWII, Frank & George.

http://www.hoffmanarms.com/HoffmanHistory.html

(Frank) Hoffman Arms eventually moved from OH to TX, then OK, and later became Dubiel Arms in the 1940's.

Geo Hoffman made rifles in .416 Hoffman, a blown-out .375H&H.

This is a pic of .400 Hoffman Mag brass that Midway had - so I would presume a .450 on the same case would be very similar to a .458 Winchester Mag or the .450 Lott - don't forget, these rifles/chamberings were well before the .458 Winchester mag was born, and everybody was experimenting with big bore rifles for an African safari.

A .450 Hoffman on a Remington 1917 sounds like a custom gunsmith job from the same era.

.

**Mike Irwin** · April 12, 2013, 04:18 PM

According to Cartridges of the World, the .416 Hoffman was developed in the early 1970s and is, or was, loaded by A-Square. According to some data I've found, the .416 was developed by George Hoffman of Sonora, Texas.

I can't find any information about a .450 Hoffman in any of my cartridge books.

You'd need to have a chamber cast done that could then be measured to see what the parent case is.

It could be a belted cartridge, with the belt controlling headspace (a blown out and necked .375 wouldn't leave much in the way of shoulder), or it could also be based on something like the .416 Rigby case, which has much greater case diameter to work with.

Jim Watson · April 12, 2013, 04:23 PM

I can't find anything, either.
I wonder if it might not be a full length belted magnum akin to .458 Watts.

winchester1917 · April 13, 2013, 09:20 AM

Interesting...

So this isn't a commercially available cartridge...

The rifle is in very nice shape. Is something like this worth anything? i.e. When a '17 is modified like this, is the value generally increased or decreased from what it would be in original condition? (I do have an original condition all-Winchester 1917 also

)

PetahW · April 13, 2013, 12:57 PM

Is it worth anything ? ? ? ?

If it's a tomato stake, maybe not.................

Condition, AND the quality & style of the custom work goes a long way towards settling the value.

.

winchester1917 · April 13, 2013, 09:39 PM

Makes sense. I will try to get some pictures of it and upload them.
Thanks for the replies!

mapsjanhere · April 14, 2013, 07:44 AM

As for the cartridge, it's probably something very close to the 458 Lott, assuming it's a blown out 375 H&H as the 416 Hoffman. Cerrosafe cast of the chamber should tell you. Once you confirmed the chamber dimensions you can either get a custom reloading die set made or the chamber reamed to 458 Lott if the dimensions fit. Either will set you back about $150 - 200.

winchester1917 · April 15, 2013, 10:58 AM

Here are a few shots of the rifle in question.
Sorry about the poor quality...cheap camera.

PetahW · April 15, 2013, 02:00 PM

IMO, the rifle's worth about $350..........

What looks to be a Lyman 48 long slide receiver peep sight's worth at least another $200+, all by itself.

.

jackpine · April 15, 2013, 06:46 PM

looks like a basic no frills sporter. Rifles like this that I have had in the past I have made a chamber cast of and found cartridge data in either wildcat cartridges by wolfe publishing or the handlaoders guide to cartridge conversions.

As far as value thats a tough one to nail down. If the gun was put together by a noted smith the price doubles if not it's worth around $400 or so to the casual buyer and at most twice that if the person is looking for a gun in that cartridge and in that style as custom rifles are like custom shoes, great fo one guy and poison to the next.

April 12, 2013, 09:38 AM	#1
winchester1917 Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2013 Posts: 115	Remington 1917 in 450 Hoffman? Hello, First post here: I have a Remington M1917 that has been sporterized and re-chambered/re-barreled and is now stamped "450 Hoffman" I have no idea what this is. I have never heard of, and cannot find any information anywhere about a 450 Hoffman chambering. I know the 1917's have been re-barreled in all shapes and sizes, but this one is very obscure to me. Although I am not a firearms expert, I can usually find whatever info I need... not this time. Perhaps someone here can help. Has anyone seen or heard of this? Is it a pseudonym for something else?

April 12, 2013, 12:40 PM	#2
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	AFAIK, ther were two separate Hoffman's making guns before WWII, Frank & George. http://www.hoffmanarms.com/HoffmanHistory.html (Frank) Hoffman Arms eventually moved from OH to TX, then OK, and later became Dubiel Arms in the 1940's. Geo Hoffman made rifles in .416 Hoffman, a blown-out .375H&H. This is a pic of .400 Hoffman Mag brass that Midway had - so I would presume a .450 on the same case would be very similar to a .458 Winchester Mag or the .450 Lott - don't forget, these rifles/chamberings were well before the .458 Winchester mag was born, and everybody was experimenting with big bore rifles for an African safari. A .450 Hoffman on a Remington 1917 sounds like a custom gunsmith job from the same era. . Last edited by PetahW; April 16, 2013 at 09:48 AM.

April 12, 2013, 04:18 PM	#3
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,388	According to Cartridges of the World, the .416 Hoffman was developed in the early 1970s and is, or was, loaded by A-Square. According to some data I've found, the .416 was developed by George Hoffman of Sonora, Texas. I can't find any information about a .450 Hoffman in any of my cartridge books. You'd need to have a chamber cast done that could then be measured to see what the parent case is. It could be a belted cartridge, with the belt controlling headspace (a blown out and necked .375 wouldn't leave much in the way of shoulder), or it could also be based on something like the .416 Rigby case, which has much greater case diameter to work with. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 14, 2013, 07:44 AM	#8
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	As for the cartridge, it's probably something very close to the 458 Lott, assuming it's a blown out 375 H&H as the 416 Hoffman. Cerrosafe cast of the chamber should tell you. Once you confirmed the chamber dimensions you can either get a custom reloading die set made or the chamber reamed to 458 Lott if the dimensions fit. Either will set you back about $150 - 200. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

April 12, 2013, 04:23 PM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	I can't find anything, either. I wonder if it might not be a full length belted magnum akin to .458 Watts.

April 13, 2013, 09:20 AM	#5
winchester1917 Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2013 Posts: 115	Interesting... So this isn't a commercially available cartridge... The rifle is in very nice shape. Is something like this worth anything? i.e. When a '17 is modified like this, is the value generally increased or decreased from what it would be in original condition? (I do have an original condition all-Winchester 1917 also )

April 13, 2013, 12:57 PM	#6
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	Is it worth anything ? ? ? ? If it's a tomato stake, maybe not................. Condition, AND the quality & style of the custom work goes a long way towards settling the value. .

April 13, 2013, 09:39 PM	#7
winchester1917 Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2013 Posts: 115	Makes sense. I will try to get some pictures of it and upload them. Thanks for the replies!

April 15, 2013, 02:00 PM	#10
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	IMO, the rifle's worth about $350.......... What looks to be a Lyman 48 long slide receiver peep sight's worth at least another $200+, all by itself. .

April 15, 2013, 06:46 PM	#11
jackpine Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2010 Posts: 351	looks like a basic no frills sporter. Rifles like this that I have had in the past I have made a chamber cast of and found cartridge data in either wildcat cartridges by wolfe publishing or the handlaoders guide to cartridge conversions. As far as value thats a tough one to nail down. If the gun was put together by a noted smith the price doubles if not it's worth around $400 or so to the casual buyer and at most twice that if the person is looking for a gun in that cartridge and in that style as custom rifles are like custom shoes, great fo one guy and poison to the next.