Scenario: Unarmed BG refuses to move

HKguy9 · April 25, 2002, 08:40 PM

You are alone and walk out of a convenient store and a guy starts to follow ya. BG doesn't appear to be armed, and is sober. He says "Hey buddy, ya got 5 bucks?" You ignore him and walk towards your car. He follows but is maintaining distance but there is NO way you can open you car door and shut it before he reaches you, assuming he wants to, so you walk to the other side of your car to create some distance.

BG reaches your car but does not follow you--rather he stands at the driver's side door and holds. He is showing no aggression, but it IS public so you can't just hit the guy. You are unarmed except for a multi-tool, cell phone and pen (you are stuck in California).

What do you do? BG is passive but refuses to move but keeps askin' for a few bucks.

Texas2NC · April 25, 2002, 08:47 PM

I am not a small guy and I look (or so I am told by my coworkers) like a drill sergeant.

I don't tend to be passive in any given situation and I don't like being followed. I would have escalated this before the guy could trap me at my vehicle; stopped and confronted him. Then again, not many folks follow me

Parke1 · April 25, 2002, 09:00 PM

Well let's see here. If he's on the other side of the car from me, I suppose I'd enter the passenger side and slide over to the driver's seat and leave. If he became aggressive at this point, I'd probably just drive away from him (to prevent damage to my car) and call the police.

As long as he remains docile, just get in the car, slide over to the driver's side and leave.

-Parke1

LoneStranger · April 25, 2002, 11:04 PM

Inform him earlier that "Sorry, but I don't have it to loan" then go to your car and try to get in, driver or passenger, and leave.
Your statement leaves him with information that your not giving and you are not staying. After that he starts escalation.
If necessary go back in store and inform clerk of problem, they can call cops and get him rousted.

chris93473 · April 26, 2002, 02:14 AM

i would confront the guy and threaten him.

Betty · April 26, 2002, 09:38 AM

I'd do what Parke1 said.

A few weeks ago, Oleg and I were walking to my pickup and this guy comes up to us, asking us for a few bucks to fill up his gas tank. Seems he's an odd-job guy and did some work and didn't get paid, maybe for good reason or not, I don't know. He lived many miles away and had no friends near him to call.

I had already had my door open, any my hand on my Para the whole time. (It looked like my hand was relaxing on my hip.) If he took one step closer, I would've sternly told him to back away, but he stayed out of the minimum comfort zone.

It didn't seem he was making the story up, and I told him I'd give him a few bucks if he could prove his gas tank was empty. He said "sure" and we walked over to his truck. He started it up, and the tank was running on empty (I know, sometimes gauges don't work, etc.)

So I gave him a few bucks, and he was very thankful and waved. I think if he cheated me, he would not have been so civil as he left, or headed in the direction he said he was going to go.

I would've never given him a dime if Oleg wasn't there -me digging in my purse meant occupying both hands. I observed that Oleg had his hands in his pocket holste, and I was close enough to nail the guy in the balls with my foot if he so much as blinked the wrong way.

It's nice to be a good samaritan, but the "helpee" needs to know a few basic rules when asking a complete stranger for help. Blocking someone's car door isn't the right way and is a sign of either absolute stupidity or aggression.

pdmoderator · April 26, 2002, 10:14 AM

Call in an air strike.

Seriously, I don't know the geometry here, so I don't know whether you can get to the passenger side and get in before he strikes (if he's going to.)

And how do you know he's really unarmed?

So if you can't enter the car safely, go back into the store and call 911. Tell 'em you've got a panhandler threatening you and preventing you from getting into your vehicle.

Not the standard gunshop ninja response, but hey, if PRWherever has disarmed you, they're going to have to expect overworked cops and clogged courts.

- pdmoderator

C.R.Sam · April 26, 2002, 11:12 AM

I say "no" in a neutral tone. No excuses, no justification, just "no"

I make rare exceptions in cases such as described by Runt.

In this scenario, when approching my vehicle, I would turn and say "stop"..........they do. Then get in and drive away.

No fuss.

Sam

F350Lawman · December 20, 2004, 12:05 AM

He says "Hey buddy, ya got 5 bucks?"

I tell him my standard....( in a very dry manner mind you)"Sorry Sir, I only carry hundreds."

I reality, I look them right in the eye and say firmly, but not nastily, "No".

Just a little off topic but....

Why is it people feel the need to lie and say things like "I don't have change" or "I have no cash"?? Are we afraid of hurting some street mutant's feelings ? Why not give them the straight answer, if they heard enough NOs they would be less prevalant.

Cowled_Wolfe · December 20, 2004, 12:23 AM

If he looks shabby, etc... Tell him I already donate to area homeless shelters. If he's acting a bit aggressive, either head back to the shop and get a cop there, or -- situation permitting, get in on the passenger side and get the hell outta there... Or, if absolutely nessecary, keep him from ever being able to make babies.

If he's like this one panhandler I saw once, I'd give him $5... Then again, he had a sign reading "Why lie? I need beer."

Hollowpnt · December 20, 2004, 12:50 AM

I get hit by lots of panhandlers were I live, my general response is: Sure, but ya gotta work for it. Drop and give me twenty!
Funny they never will do the push-ups.

At this point, still being followed, I have to agree with Texas2nc. I'd turn and confront him verbally. If he gets physical? Multi-tools and car-keys can be very convincing deterents when jabbed into any one of our bodies many joints.

John Ringo · December 21, 2004, 12:43 AM

I second the air strike.

Seriously, I would tell him that I am going to call the cops if he doesn't back-off. Pulling a concealed weapon will probably land you in jail here in Ohio given those circumstances. They will say that "you had other means available" to diffuse the situation.

yorec · December 21, 2004, 02:49 AM

Depends on my mood - yeah I know moods aren't a good way to be careful in the bid city...

Most times I'd just tell him "no" and get in the passenger's side if he did as the scenario presented. Then leave.

But if I was having a day like the last time I was in Kalifornia and been impressed by the good folks there as I was then... I'd likly belly up to him and "move" him from my drivers door and leave him with an accounting of my feelings for Kalifornia citizenry. :barf: Yeah, so I'd probably get stabbed and go the rounds with him. But I'd sure feel justified in my opinion then!

%@$# I gotta take another trip down there come January. :barf:

:barf:

PsychoSword · December 21, 2004, 03:10 AM

Quote:

You are alone and walk out of a convenient store and a guy starts to follow ya. BG doesn't appear to be armed, and is sober. He says "Hey buddy, ya got 5 bucks?" You ignore him and walk towards your car.

I don't ignore people who talk to me. I like to be polite. I say "why?". If he continues to follow and hasn't got at least an interesting story to waste my time with, it's obvious he wants to screw with me.

So I kick him in the nuts and run away screaming like a little girrl....

Derius_T · December 21, 2004, 09:31 AM

PHP Code:


			
So I kick him in the nuts and run away screaming like a little girrl....

HAHAHA....LOL.......

Danindetroit · December 21, 2004, 09:57 AM

I have to ask, what would you do if you walked out of the store, at the same time as an older gentleman, with a limp, and a plastic bag in each hand. Your car was parked away from the older dude's, and you had no cell phone, nearest pay phone, is in the opposite direction of the "confrontation".

johndavid400 · December 21, 2004, 11:28 AM

I always without a doubt say "Sorry, I have no cash".

Once, I was loading up my truck after work, and 4 large (20-25yr old) males were walking through the alley where my truck was parked. Me being alone, I ignored their presence as they walked by, pretending to be pre-occupied with my tools. Once they passed me by about 20 yards, one of them turned around and asked me if I knew how to work on cars... I lied and said "Nope", he then asked me if I knew how to work on sound systems in cars.... again I lied and told him "Nope, sorry". He said ok, and turned around and kept walking. About 10 minutes later, after I finished loading up my truck, I left the house and proceeded home. When I made the turn out of the alley, the 4 guys were standing there in the street.... so I got out my Bersa .380 and put it under my leg, with the safety off and my hand on it. The guy that had asked me the questions earlier, was on the side of the street and his buddies were in the street to where I couldn't pass without running one of them over. The one that was on the side came over and asked me if I had change for a $20. Now what kind of stupid white boy do they think that I am? Lets think about what good saying yes could bring? Exactly why I said "Nope, I don't have any cash" without even stopping to think about it.... (I wanted to say "But I do have 8 hydro-shoks that you can eat if you want!!!"....

So the guy said ok, turned away and his friends followed and I went home safely. Keep in mind that I had my clutch engaged, truck in 1st gear, and my foot on the gas ready to dump the clutch and take off, plowing right through that human road block that they had created, if I felt that they were about to try something.. I wouldn't have stopped in the first place, but I felt that if I had tried to run through them even though they guy was talking to me, that I might come to work the next day to find a burnt down house or some form of vandalism to my Dad's rental house that I was working on, becuase I disrespected them. It all turned out ok though...

Moral of the story: if you tell a guy that wants cash, that you do not have any cash, he will be less likely to take his chances and proceed to rob you.

eka · December 22, 2004, 08:36 AM

A little can of pepper spray is great dog and bum repellant. Hose him down if he gets too close after being politely asked to beat it. That should give you enough time to get into your car and drive away.

Archie · December 23, 2004, 07:12 PM

is legal in PDSR California.

I was accosted by a pan-handler - grifter several years ago. I was getting gas at a self service type place and bought a can of soda pop. There were two other customers and a clerk in the store.

Grifter approaches me and demandingly asks "You gonna buy me a soda too?"

I looked him in the eye and said, "No." No hesitation, no explanation.

He gives me the fish-eye and asks "Oh, just like that, huh?"

I quietly replied, "Just like that."

He tried to stare me down for about four seconds and then broke eye contact. He wandered around the store for a moment and left. I kept my eye on him as he wandered about the lot, I was filling my car.

I was armed with a K frame revolver, but he never knew that. Somehow, I don't think he liked what he saw in my eyes.

Anyway, that and the earplugs are my only two tough guy stories.

ghostdoc · December 23, 2004, 07:24 PM

You ignored him. Maybe he's`just waiting for an answer.

I might give him a buck ot two. It's Christmas. He's probably just another crazy. I'm a crazy magnet. They flock to me. (Birds of a feather you know)

Happy Holidays gd

DT Guy · December 30, 2004, 11:08 PM

Panhandlers and homeless people are far more dangerous than they are given credit for-just had to fight an old homeless guy who felt that being diabetic gave him the right to steal, trespass and otherwise foul up another person's property.

And nearly ALL homeless people have something they intend to use as a weapon-steak knife, stick, whatever-since they live and sleep on the streets.

Larry

Doug242ti · December 31, 2004, 04:23 AM

Quote:

If he's like this one panhandler I saw once, I'd give him $5... Then again, he had a sign reading "Why lie? I need beer."

LOL I ussualy reward honesty as well. That happened the other night in down town SAC (like always... Santa Cruz seems to be the worst though). Guy came up and asked for beer money... I always have a dollar or two for honesty like that.

Ozzieman · December 31, 2004, 08:35 AM

The reasion I would say that is that your story is impossible. I would never live in a state like CA or any state that did not allow carry permits.

chameleon · December 31, 2004, 08:37 AM

If I were unarmed, as the scenario dictates, and I was able to see it wasn't a person that knows me playing a joke, after he asked me for cash, and I felt that he was following me, I'd head back to the store. I would go in, and have the counter person call the authorities. I would ask the attendant if that person was known around that store,and is always panhandling there.

Derius_T · December 31, 2004, 09:18 AM

ozzyman wrote:

Quote:

I would pull my coat aside and show him I was carring a gun

Uhhmm...isn't that brandishing? You could lose your liscense over that. At least here in Ohio.....

April 25, 2002, 08:40 PM	#1
HKguy9 Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2001 Posts: 2,132	Scenario: Unarmed BG refuses to move You are alone and walk out of a convenient store and a guy starts to follow ya. BG doesn't appear to be armed, and is sober. He says "Hey buddy, ya got 5 bucks?" You ignore him and walk towards your car. He follows but is maintaining distance but there is NO way you can open you car door and shut it before he reaches you, assuming he wants to, so you walk to the other side of your car to create some distance. BG reaches your car but does not follow you--rather he stands at the driver's side door and holds. He is showing no aggression, but it IS public so you can't just hit the guy. You are unarmed except for a multi-tool, cell phone and pen (you are stuck in California). What do you do? BG is passive but refuses to move but keeps askin' for a few bucks. __________________ P7M8, VP9

April 25, 2002, 08:47 PM	#2
Texas2NC Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 185	I am not a small guy and I look (or so I am told by my coworkers) like a drill sergeant. I don't tend to be passive in any given situation and I don't like being followed. I would have escalated this before the guy could trap me at my vehicle; stopped and confronted him. Then again, not many folks follow me __________________ David "Preacher" Slocum http://www.bastaards.org

April 25, 2002, 09:00 PM	#3
Parke1 Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2000 Location: Bowling Green, Ohio Posts: 136	Well let's see here. If he's on the other side of the car from me, I suppose I'd enter the passenger side and slide over to the driver's seat and leave. If he became aggressive at this point, I'd probably just drive away from him (to prevent damage to my car) and call the police. As long as he remains docile, just get in the car, slide over to the driver's side and leave. -Parke1 __________________ NRA Life Member

April 26, 2002, 02:14 AM	#5
chris93473 Member Join Date: April 10, 2002 Location: R. Daley is stupid Posts: 72	i would confront the guy and threaten him. __________________ American as Apple Pie

April 26, 2002, 10:14 AM	#7
pdmoderator Registration in progress Join Date: November 6, 2001 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,202	Call in an air strike. Seriously, I don't know the geometry here, so I don't know whether you can get to the passenger side and get in before he strikes (if he's going to.) And how do you know he's really unarmed? So if you can't enter the car safely, go back into the store and call 911. Tell 'em you've got a panhandler threatening you and preventing you from getting into your vehicle. Not the standard gunshop ninja response, but hey, if PRWherever has disarmed you, they're going to have to expect overworked cops and clogged courts. - pdmoderator __________________ Give up no state. Give up no ground.

April 25, 2002, 11:04 PM	#4
LoneStranger Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2000 Location: Lawrence, KS Posts: 576	Inform him earlier that "Sorry, but I don't have it to loan" then go to your car and try to get in, driver or passenger, and leave. Your statement leaves him with information that your not giving and you are not staying. After that he starts escalation. If necessary go back in store and inform clerk of problem, they can call cops and get him rousted.

April 26, 2002, 09:38 AM	#6
Betty Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2000 Location: southern U.S. Posts: 1,807	I'd do what Parke1 said. A few weeks ago, Oleg and I were walking to my pickup and this guy comes up to us, asking us for a few bucks to fill up his gas tank. Seems he's an odd-job guy and did some work and didn't get paid, maybe for good reason or not, I don't know. He lived many miles away and had no friends near him to call. I had already had my door open, any my hand on my Para the whole time. (It looked like my hand was relaxing on my hip.) If he took one step closer, I would've sternly told him to back away, but he stayed out of the minimum comfort zone. It didn't seem he was making the story up, and I told him I'd give him a few bucks if he could prove his gas tank was empty. He said "sure" and we walked over to his truck. He started it up, and the tank was running on empty (I know, sometimes gauges don't work, etc.) So I gave him a few bucks, and he was very thankful and waved. I think if he cheated me, he would not have been so civil as he left, or headed in the direction he said he was going to go. I would've never given him a dime if Oleg wasn't there -me digging in my purse meant occupying both hands. I observed that Oleg had his hands in his pocket holste, and I was close enough to nail the guy in the balls with my foot if he so much as blinked the wrong way. It's nice to be a good samaritan, but the "helpee" needs to know a few basic rules when asking a complete stranger for help. Blocking someone's car door isn't the right way and is a sign of either absolute stupidity or aggression.

April 26, 2002, 11:12 AM	#8
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	I say "no" in a neutral tone. No excuses, no justification, just "no" I make rare exceptions in cases such as described by Runt. In this scenario, when approching my vehicle, I would turn and say "stop"..........they do. Then get in and drive away. No fuss. Sam

December 20, 2004, 12:05 AM	#9
F350Lawman Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2002 Location: NY Posts: 120	He says "Hey buddy, ya got 5 bucks?" I tell him my standard....( in a very dry manner mind you)"Sorry Sir, I only carry hundreds." I reality, I look them right in the eye and say firmly, but not nastily, "No". Just a little off topic but.... Why is it people feel the need to lie and say things like "I don't have change" or "I have no cash"?? Are we afraid of hurting some street mutant's feelings ? Why not give them the straight answer, if they heard enough NOs they would be less prevalant. __________________ S&W 1911SC/ Taurus PT145/ Kahr PM40/ Glock 19 w/night sights / Glock 19/ Ruger SPNY/ Ruger Service Six/ S&W Mod 64/ Grendel Mod 10

December 20, 2004, 12:23 AM	#10
Cowled_Wolfe Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Washington... Land of the apple, and the apple maggot! Posts: 803	If he looks shabby, etc... Tell him I already donate to area homeless shelters. If he's acting a bit aggressive, either head back to the shop and get a cop there, or -- situation permitting, get in on the passenger side and get the hell outta there... Or, if absolutely nessecary, keep him from ever being able to make babies. If he's like this one panhandler I saw once, I'd give him $5... Then again, he had a sign reading "Why lie? I need beer." __________________ [Your ad could be here! Call 555-0122 for details.] (\__/) (='.'=)This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into (")_(")your signature to help him gain world domination.

December 20, 2004, 12:50 AM	#11
Hollowpnt Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: California..or Kalifornia Posts: 40	I get hit by lots of panhandlers were I live, my general response is: Sure, but ya gotta work for it. Drop and give me twenty! Funny they never will do the push-ups. At this point, still being followed, I have to agree with Texas2nc. I'd turn and confront him verbally. If he gets physical? Multi-tools and car-keys can be very convincing deterents when jabbed into any one of our bodies many joints.

December 21, 2004, 12:43 AM	#12
John Ringo Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2004 Location: Washington DC Posts: 379	I second the air strike. Seriously, I would tell him that I am going to call the cops if he doesn't back-off. Pulling a concealed weapon will probably land you in jail here in Ohio given those circumstances. They will say that "you had other means available" to diffuse the situation. __________________ Regards, John Ringo "I like these calm little moments before the storm (Stansfield, The Professional)."

December 21, 2004, 02:49 AM	#13
yorec Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 2,328	Depends on my mood - yeah I know moods aren't a good way to be careful in the bid city... Most times I'd just tell him "no" and get in the passenger's side if he did as the scenario presented. Then leave. But if I was having a day like the last time I was in Kalifornia and been impressed by the good folks there as I was then... I'd likly belly up to him and "move" him from my drivers door and leave him with an accounting of my feelings for Kalifornia citizenry. :barf: Yeah, so I'd probably get stabbed and go the rounds with him. But I'd sure feel justified in my opinion then! %@$# I gotta take another trip down there come January. :barf: :barf: __________________ What part of "... shall not be infringed..." don't you understand?

December 21, 2004, 09:31 AM	#15
Derius_T Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Location: South West OHIO (boondocks) Posts: 1,337	PHP Code: `So I kick him in the nuts and run away screaming like a little girrl....` HAHAHA....LOL.......

December 21, 2004, 09:57 AM	#16
Danindetroit Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2004 Location: Detroit Posts: 757	I have to ask, what would you do if you walked out of the store, at the same time as an older gentleman, with a limp, and a plastic bag in each hand. Your car was parked away from the older dude's, and you had no cell phone, nearest pay phone, is in the opposite direction of the "confrontation".

December 21, 2004, 11:28 AM	#17
johndavid400 Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2004 Location: USA Posts: 495	I always without a doubt say "Sorry, I have no cash". Once, I was loading up my truck after work, and 4 large (20-25yr old) males were walking through the alley where my truck was parked. Me being alone, I ignored their presence as they walked by, pretending to be pre-occupied with my tools. Once they passed me by about 20 yards, one of them turned around and asked me if I knew how to work on cars... I lied and said "Nope", he then asked me if I knew how to work on sound systems in cars.... again I lied and told him "Nope, sorry". He said ok, and turned around and kept walking. About 10 minutes later, after I finished loading up my truck, I left the house and proceeded home. When I made the turn out of the alley, the 4 guys were standing there in the street.... so I got out my Bersa .380 and put it under my leg, with the safety off and my hand on it. The guy that had asked me the questions earlier, was on the side of the street and his buddies were in the street to where I couldn't pass without running one of them over. The one that was on the side came over and asked me if I had change for a $20. Now what kind of stupid white boy do they think that I am? Lets think about what good saying yes could bring? Exactly why I said "Nope, I don't have any cash" without even stopping to think about it.... (I wanted to say "But I do have 8 hydro-shoks that you can eat if you want!!!".... So the guy said ok, turned away and his friends followed and I went home safely. Keep in mind that I had my clutch engaged, truck in 1st gear, and my foot on the gas ready to dump the clutch and take off, plowing right through that human road block that they had created, if I felt that they were about to try something.. I wouldn't have stopped in the first place, but I felt that if I had tried to run through them even though they guy was talking to me, that I might come to work the next day to find a burnt down house or some form of vandalism to my Dad's rental house that I was working on, becuase I disrespected them. It all turned out ok though... Moral of the story: if you tell a guy that wants cash, that you do not have any cash, he will be less likely to take his chances and proceed to rob you.

December 22, 2004, 08:36 AM	#18
eka Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2004 Posts: 235	A little can of pepper spray is great dog and bum repellant. Hose him down if he gets too close after being politely asked to beat it. That should give you enough time to get into your car and drive away. __________________ EKA Sic Semper Tyrannis

December 23, 2004, 07:12 PM	#19
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	Pepper spray is legal in PDSR California. I was accosted by a pan-handler - grifter several years ago. I was getting gas at a self service type place and bought a can of soda pop. There were two other customers and a clerk in the store. Grifter approaches me and demandingly asks "You gonna buy me a soda too?" I looked him in the eye and said, "No." No hesitation, no explanation. He gives me the fish-eye and asks "Oh, just like that, huh?" I quietly replied, "Just like that." He tried to stare me down for about four seconds and then broke eye contact. He wandered around the store for a moment and left. I kept my eye on him as he wandered about the lot, I was filling my car. I was armed with a K frame revolver, but he never knew that. Somehow, I don't think he liked what he saw in my eyes. Anyway, that and the earplugs are my only two tough guy stories. __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

December 23, 2004, 07:24 PM	#20
ghostdoc Member Join Date: August 10, 2004 Posts: 43	You ignored him. Maybe he's`just waiting for an answer. I might give him a buck ot two. It's Christmas. He's probably just another crazy. I'm a crazy magnet. They flock to me. (Birds of a feather you know) Happy Holidays gd

December 30, 2004, 11:08 PM	#21
DT Guy Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2001 Posts: 959	Panhandlers and homeless people are far more dangerous than they are given credit for-just had to fight an old homeless guy who felt that being diabetic gave him the right to steal, trespass and otherwise foul up another person's property. And nearly ALL homeless people have something they intend to use as a weapon-steak knife, stick, whatever-since they live and sleep on the streets. Larry __________________ He who fights and runs away had better run pretty damn fast. Government, Anarchy and Chaos

December 31, 2004, 08:35 AM	#23
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	I would pull my coat aside and show him I was carring a gun The reasion I would say that is that your story is impossible. I would never live in a state like CA or any state that did not allow carry permits.

December 31, 2004, 08:37 AM	#24
chameleon Member Join Date: August 18, 2004 Posts: 54	If I were unarmed, as the scenario dictates, and I was able to see it wasn't a person that knows me playing a joke, after he asked me for cash, and I felt that he was following me, I'd head back to the store. I would go in, and have the counter person call the authorities. I would ask the attendant if that person was known around that store,and is always panhandling there.