AAHS crimping issues

[oneounceload]

I posted this also in the reloading section, but there doesn't seem to be much traffic, so I'm posting here as well. If the MODS deem necessary, do with it as you will.

Hoping someone has an idea - my little MEC Jr. loads my older AA's just fine. I also have the newer HS hulls and am having major crimping issues. Using the HS wad from claybuster, the first crimp station starts the crimp, but not as deep as the older AA's. The final crimp station however, is almost trying to put a roll crimp on the new hulls. I have adjusted the seater plug up, down, back to original - nothing is working right. It is leaving a MAJOR hole with shot spilling out. What am I missing here? I have 1500 of these.

Thanks in advance for the help and ideas!

[zippy13]

This is so basic that it almost slipped my mind. In 12-ga, most of my reloading is with WW Double-A hulls; however, I do some Federal paper hulls on occasion. Typically, the transition is painless. Yet, sometimes the crimp goes crazy. It's the result of me forgetting to switch the crimp starter.

It's a long shot: Make sure you have the proper crimp starter and it's adjusted correctly.

[BigJimP]

What you're seeing is a combination of problems - on these new AA's HS hulls. Honestly, because of these problems - I tossed all my AA's and went to Remington STS / Nitro hulls over 2 years ago, because of all the aggravation from the HS hulls ( but assuming you don't want to do that ...). First thing to try is drop the pre-crimp a little to try and get a little more material to crimp and roll. It may or may not get rid of the hole completely - but it should help.

The wad you picked may be part of your problem as well - claybuster wads are known to be a little inconsistent ( if you stand them up on a flat table - you may see some that are a little taller than others ). I would recommend you consider changing the wad - on some other sites guys report better results on crimps on AA HS hulls using a wad made by "down range". I know some of my buddies that stayed with the AA's for awhile went to Remington wads, that are just a hair shorter, to help out a little on the crimps.

There was a time - where the AA HS hull lower portion was moving upward inside the hull on ignition - so guys were cutting dowels - setting hulls on a workbench - going one by one putting the dowel inside the hull and smacking each one with a dead blow hammer. You may have some on you that have moved a little inside as well.

I know you said you have 1500 of them - but if they're once fired - you might consider selling them for 2 or 3 cents to somebody that has the patience to fuss with them ..... and buy some cases of Remington STS and just walk away from the aggravation. All I can tell you, is among the dozen or so guys that I shoot with all the time - we all dumped the new AA's and went to Remington - it just got to be too big a hassle.

[crowbeaner]

I haven't tried the HS hulls yet; I still have 1500 old style and a bunch of RP Gun Clubs left to load. I had to tweak the crimp die a bit to get the crimp where it looked like a factory shell. I've heard of problems with the new hulls; try some different loadings to find one that will fill the shotcup to the top edge and leave room for the crimp. The wad inside the hull may be of a different heigth and need to be settled back in the hull after depriming; it may pull a bit when the decapping rod comes out. This may be why the above post makes mention of tapping the wad back into place. If you're using a MEC, you may be able to push it back down with the ram that seats the primer; try adjusting it down to put more pressure on the wad, and then prime the hull. I've never had any problems with Claybuster wads, so I can't tell you about the differences in overall wad heigth from bag to bag.

[BigJimP]

I just happened to run accross your note, as a response on an old thread, in the other section of the forum on reloading - which is probably why nobody saw it over there.

You didn't say in this thread you were talking about AA 28ga hulls ...... but I suspected that's what you were talking about when you said you were using HS wads ( since 12ga and 20ga AA's HS hulls don't require an HS wad ).

But just so we are all together here - we are talking about Win AA 28ga HS hulls ... The bad crimp issues on AA HS hulls are even worse on 28ga than they are on 12 or 20 ga AA HS hulls. I doubt you'll be able to fix it unless you change wads.

As a note: Rem STS 28ga hulls have had a quality problem - where the plastic extruded case is breaking off inside the brass cup on the shell. I have had it happen on even the 1st reload. Sometimes the brass cup comes out of the gun - and the extruded plastic hull will remain in the barrel or the chamber. I have even broken a target normally - and still had the hull come apart inside the gun. In good conscience, I will only recommend using 28ga STS reloads in an over under where you can physically see inside the chamber every time you take a shell out and make sure the chamber and the barrels are clear before you load another shell into the gun. I will not use Rem STS 28ga reloads in a semi-auto where a hull may break off and block a chamber and another round may be able to be loaded behind it without realizing the whole hull was not ejected properly. Remington says they have fixed the problem ......but I am not convinced.

There have been so many changes on the WIN 28ga AA HS hulls - they increased the length awhile back, then several months ago they shortened them again - and never remarked any of them - so its possible you have a mix of longer and shorter hulls as well unless you fired them yourself out of the same case lot. Win 28ga AA HS hulls are a nightmare .......Rem STS 28ga hulls are reportedly still breaking off inside guns ....... if you can find some old style Win AA's in 28ga they are the best hulls you can get - and pay whatever you have to - to get them. Beyond that, use Rem STS 28ga and don't let anybody shoot them in a semi-auto or a pump gun.

[oneounceload]

Jim - these are probably the older ones - since I bought them "way back" when you could get Win 28 AA SC loads for the "paltry" price of $60.00/flat.....I know I can sell them for about .15/each, but then I'd have to go buy some more.....my Remington 28 STS hulls would also require adjustment since they get that "oil drum" bulges about half the time

I love the 28, but this is getting frustrating, especially when the original AA hulls works without any fuss at all.....

I'll try finagling some more with the crimp starter and final crimp dies - there's only so much since this is origanlly a 12 ga machine with an older 28 conversion kit and the adjustments only go so far...

Thanks folks - back to the bench I go!

[olddrum1]

Check this page out and it will help you with your problems on the HS hull. Their suggestion is that your machine needs to be adjusted and that you need to contact the manufacturer of the machine.
http://www.winchester.com/search/sea...archtext=Crimp

[zippy13]

Originally Posted by oneounceload

I love the 28, but this is getting frustrating, especially when the original AA hulls works without any fuss at all.....

It's my favorite, too. 28-ga fanciers are treated like the wicked step-child. It's all all about supply and demand -- we need more 28-gaugers! Here's a start: Every time a newbie asks for shotgun recommendations, we unanimously recommend 28's.

[oneounceload]

It's my favorite, too. 28-ga fanciers are treated like the wicked step-child. It's all all about supply and demand -- we need more 28-gaugers! Here's a start: Every time a newbie asks for shotgun recommendations, we unanimously recommend 28's

I always do - especially when the poster is saying it's for a kid or small woman

ANYWAY - finagled the heck out of the starter crimp, still getting that little pellet in the center hole, (it's not falling through), but it is sure a LOT better than yesterday - the starter crimp WAS the major culprit - THANKS to everyone for their help and suggestions....I believe I have it about 99% working now

[zippy13]

ANYWAY - finagled the heck out of the starter crimp, still getting that little pellet in the center hole

What a bother. Reminds me of loading paper 20's with a LEE hand loader (remember those -- everything you needed, except a hammer, in one little box) many, many years ago. No matter what I tried, there was always that little hole in the center of the crimp. I'd put all my new reloads in a pan and apply a dash of sealing wax to each hole.

A long shot...
I'll leave the obvious answers to the guys more familiar with the hulls and components you're using:
I recall loading .410 wads that had a mind of their own. The wads were tight enough (in AA hulls) that air was compressed below the shot cup. In MECs the wad is seated and the shot dropped at the same station. So, you set you wad, raise the handle and start to rotated to the next station. About that time, the trapped air lifted the cup and spilled just enough shot to shut down operations for a clean up. A work around was to double pump the handle to re-seat the wad. You had to be careful to short stroke the second pump to avoid moving the metering bar, or pulling the primer drop chain. Since the introduction of plastic wads, many folks ignore wad pressure.
Is it possible you're experiencing some sort of similar wad withdrawal?

[jrothWA]

too much powder in the new (cursed) AAHS tube may not allow full seating of wad.

Hold a new factory shell up to strong light and note where the component lie, then do same with reload.

Also I marked the gas seal edge of wad with black marker to see if its hanging up on the ledge above the base wad???

[BigJimP]

Glad to hear you got some of the issues worked out.