Question about firearms and personal vehicles at work.

[nokia16601]

I have tried searching for this, but my situation is a bit different than anything I could find.

I work in behavioral health in-home with families. My employee handbook states that employees are not allowed to store a firearm in their vehicle while conducting company business. Because I work in-home with the families, I am not on company property, and I use my personal vehicle to travel to and from the home. Is my employer legal in saying this, or are they overstepping their bounds by saying this?

I have yet to carry at work for this reason, and I do not intend to cause problems because AZ is a right-to-work state. I would just like to encourage my employer to be lawful in their employee handbook.

Thanks in advance

[Smaug]

I think you'd have better chances of keeping your job by carrying discreetly and not worrying about it than making an issue of it with them.


"Well begun is half done."
-Aristotle

[Nico Testosteros]

If they want to fire you over carrying, they will. Whether that would hold up after you hired a lawyer and took them to court is a different matter.

[nokia16601]

I agree, and that's why I have not said anything to them in the last two years. But this company has recently implemented several changes which are questionable, including this and trying to prevent us from having breaks/lunch, even if our shift is 8+ hours.

[Kreyzhorse]

I certainly wouldn't mention it to your employeer.

I work in Kentucky and while my employeer bans guns at the work place, and I not quoting the exact phrase, the handbook reads "our policy bans guns at work even in your personal vehicle,where legal..."

The interesting thing is, it is illegal for them to ban me from keeping a gun in my vehicle so they throw in the "where legal" statement to protect themselves. With that said, Kentucky is an at will state so I certainly don't advertise that their policy doesn't apply in this great Commonwealth.

If I were you, I'd research it, like you are doing now, and keep my mouth shut about it.

A good resource is www.handgunlaw.us I'd start looking there for info on your state.

[Kreyzhorse]

Okay - I looked for you. Here is the link:

http://handgunlaw.us/states/arizona.pdf

It seems as if it is illegal for them to ban you from keeping one in your personal vehicle but there are a lot of restrictions and other items that need to be met first.

[otisrush]

[I'm not an attorney. Not even close.]

Unless the law specifically prohibits it (race, religion, gender, etc.) an employer can fire you for whatever reason they want. And just because a state law allows something doesn't mean prohibiting it in the employee manual is illegal. It's legal for me to download inappropriate material at work, but my employer has said it is against *their* rules. They can legally fire me for breaking their rules, since there is no work discrimination law for people who like "inappropriate material." (Which, by the way, they've clearly defined what inappropriate material is.)

It seems to me even though the state allows you to have a weapon in your vehicle, the company is saying you can't if you want to work for them.

[Standing Wolf]

Jobs are easier to replace than lives.

[Mudinyeri]

... because AZ is a right-to-work state

Do you mean "employment at-will state"? A Right to Work law guarantees that no person can be compelled, as a condition of employment, to join or not to join, or to pay dues to a labor union. In other words, if you work in a Right to Work state, like Arizona, and the employees form a union, you may not be fired if you decide not to join. Likewise, if you are a member of a union in a Right to Work state, and you decide to resign from the union, you may not be fired for that reason.

With all that said, if the employee handbook says that you may not store the firearm in your vehicle and you carry it on your person ... where's the problem?

As far as the breaks go ... are you salaried or hourly, i.e. exempt or non-exempt?

[MadHatter1]

You use your personal vehicle for work if I understand your post correclty. My first question would be do they compensate you for using your own vehicle: do they pay you mileage, provide a stipend for fuel, give you a company fuel card, or are there any other terms of your employment agreement that could be interpeted as them "leasing" your vehicle during your duty hours? If so, it could legaly be considered a 'company' vehicle when used during the course of your employment.
Depending on the employer, you may be able to negotiate this. I sold real estate for a while, but was an independent contractor, not an employee. One of the rules was no weapons in the office or while on company business. I had an open discussion with the franchice owner, and he agreed to allow me to carry as long as I didn't wear the gun in the office. When going to the office, the gun would from holster to briefcase to locked drawer in my desk.
Ultimately, you need advice from someone licenced to practice law in AZ.

[mes227]

It doesn't matter if they pay you for your car or not, if you're on the company clock you follow their rules or get fired (with exceptions for clearly illegal rules, of course). If you don't like their rules, find a job that's better suited to your style.

[Nitesites]

Hmm...

I would think that as long as you are operating your personally owned vehicle on runs utilizing public access roads, they, the employer, hasn't the authority to demand such a thing. This is not taking into account utilizing private parking owned by your employer which would seem a separate issue. But in any case, your well-being is not their concern.

I see three different options : 1. Abide by the policy., 2. Find other employment., 3. Keep your trap shut.

Just what I think, though.

Edit : This has me thinking...If your employer has a written employee policy dictating that employees shall not have any firearms on their person, in their vehicle, etc. while on the premises...what about visitors who may have firearms and left said firearms locked in their vehicles on site? It's rare that industrial establishments post "no firearms allowed anywhere on premises" signs plastered on their street signs.

"John Doe can drive right up, park and have the means to defend themselves but because I work here, I can't?". Sounds discriminatory.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by nokia16601

I work in behavioral health in-home with families. My employee handbook states that employees are not allowed to store a firearm in their vehicle while conducting company business. Because I work in-home with the families, I am not on company property, and I use my personal vehicle to travel to and from the home. Is my employer legal in saying this, or are they overstepping their bounds by saying this?

Unless there is a state law prohibiting the policy, an employer's poicy is a contractual matter, not a public policy matter. If you conduct client visits in the clients' homes, then you are on company business and their policy would apply.

Rather than paraphrase, could you quote the exact language of the policy?

The text of the state law, from the link kindly provided by kreyzhorse, reads:

12-781. Transportation or Storage of Firearms; Motor Vehicles; Applicability

A. A property owner, tenant, public or private employer or business entity shall not establish, maintain or enforce a policy or rule that prohibits a person from lawfully transporting or lawfully storing any firearm that is both:

1. In the person's locked and privately owned motor vehicle or in a locked compartment on the person's privately owned motorcycle.
2. Not visible from the outside of the motor vehicle or motorcycle.

B. Any policy or rule that is established or maintained or the attempted enforcement of any policy or rule that is in violation of subsection A is contrary to public policy, is null and void and does not have legal force or effect.

C. This section does not apply if:

1. The possession of the firearm is prohibited by federal or state law.
2. The motor vehicle is owned or leased by a public or private employer or business entity and is used by an employee in the course of the employment, unless the employee is required to store or transport a firearm in the official discharge of the employee's duties or if the public or private employer or business entity consents to the transportation or storage of the firearm.
3. The property owner, tenant, public or private employer or business entity provides a parking lot, parking garage or other area designated for parking motor vehicles, that:

(a) Is secured by a fence or other physical barrier.
(b) Limits access by a guard or other security measure.
(c) Provides temporary and secure firearm storage. The storage shall be monitored and readily accessible on entry into the premises and allow for the immediate retrieval of the firearm on exit from the premises.

4. The property owner's, tenant's, public or private employer's or business entity's compliance with this section necessitates the violation of another applicable federal or state law or regulation.
5. The property owner, tenant, public or private employer or business entity is a nuclear generating station that provides a secured and gated or fenced parking lot, parking garage or other area designated for parking motor vehicles and provides temporary and secure firearm storage. The storage shall be readily accessible on entry into the premises and allow for the immediate retrieval of the firearm on exit from the premises.
6. The parking lot, parking garage or other area designated for parking motor vehicles is on an owner occupied single family detached residence or a tenant occupied single family detached residence.
7. The property owner, tenant, public or private employer or business entity is a current United States department of defense contractor and the property is located in whole or in part on a United States military base or a United States military installation. If any part of the property is not located on the United States military base or United States military installation, the property shall be contiguous with the base or installation.
8. The property owner, tenant, public or private employer or business entity provides alternative parking in a location reasonably proximate to the primary parking area for individuals who desire to transport or store a firearm in the individual's motor vehicle and does not charge an extra fee for such parking.

So ... the law applies to employers, and the law is NOT limited to parking lots owned or controlled by the employer. (Paragraph A) You are using your personal vehicle, and I assume you have a means of securing the firearm out of sight when it is stored in the vehicle (paragraphs A.1 and A.2)

Given the above, Paragraph B says that any any policy that runs counter to Paragraph A is null and void. Your situation does not appear to fall under any of the exceptions listed in paragraph C. Thus, it would appear (remember, I am not a lawyer and I don't live in Arizona) that your employer's policy is void and meaningless.

[AH.74]

If it were me and there was no chance of my vehicle being searched, which I would allow only by order of the court or similar, I would not mention anything and continue to keep something in my own personal vehicle.

trying to prevent us from having breaks/lunch, even if our shift is 8+ hours.

If they are indeed trying to do this they are violating federal labor laws and a call to the labor department would seem to be in order.