repairing rifles

highrider_44s · May 23, 2006, 12:19 AM

i need to either sauder or weld a peice back on a rifle i have.

So my question is what's the best way to do this, what kind of a procedure should i follow and maby what materials to get?

Majic · May 23, 2006, 01:03 AM

If you don't know how to weld then this is not how you learn. Also depending on where the part goes be sure you don't change the temper of the steel.

highrider_44s · May 23, 2006, 09:13 PM

i can weld i've welded lots i was thinking about using the mig but i've heard that you're soppose to sauder rifles

the part that needs to be welded is a collared thead that broke off the bottom of the action. This is the one that you screw into from the bottom of the rifle to attach the barrel to the stalk

( O think that makes sence

)

highrider_44s · May 23, 2006, 09:15 PM

i can weld i've welded lots i was thinking about using the mig but i've heard that you're soppose to sauder rifles

the part that needs to be welded is a collared thead that broke off the bottom of the action. This is the one that you screw into from the bottom of the rifle to attach the barrel to the stalk

( O think that makes sence

)

highrider_44s · May 23, 2006, 09:16 PM

i can weld i've welded lots i was thinking about using the mig but i've heard that you're soppose to sauder rifles

the part that needs to be welded is a collared thead that broke off the bottom of the action. This is the one that you screw into from the bottom of the rifle to attach the barrel to the stalk

( I think that makes sence

)

**Unclenick** · May 23, 2006, 10:41 PM

Solder is generally used on shotgun barrels and to attach sights mounts on old Mausers and the like. There is real risk of welding cause assymetrical barrel stress in a high power rifle barrel becaus most have been heat treated. They are typically drawn back at about 1100 degrees F, so it may be OK to use a lower temperature silver brazing alloy on such a part. It depends on the barrel steel and how much stress the part is subject to? On a .22 rimfire or an old style muzzle loader this or welding would be satisfactory since the steel is usually soft to start with.

Nick

cntryboy1289 · May 24, 2006, 12:33 AM

There's a huge difference between welding a couple of pieces of mild steel together and welding on firearms. I would also advise you that there is a lot more to soldering than you are capable of as well from the sound of it.

Take the gun to a smith and let him fix it for you, otherwise, a mistake could kill you or the one standing next to you!

Don't mean to rain on your parade, but welding on firearms isn't something to be taken lightly. Serious damage can and will result if you don't use the right rod and or flux and you can soften the receiver too much or leave it brittle, either of which can be a deadly combination on a gun.

highrider_44s · May 24, 2006, 08:52 PM

I know enough to ask for advice when something needs to be welded properly. That why i'm asking and if i feel i can't do it then i'll take it somewere else.

The part i'm looking to fix is no where near the barrel or on the bolt or the near the chamber it is at the rear of the action housing under the action behind the trigger and is used to bolt the stalk on, also the rifle is a .243 rem so it's not a super high powered gun.

It looks like somone tryed to sauder it already and obvously they didn't do it right cause it broke again.

So you think a silver braize would be the better way to go

tomh1426 · May 24, 2006, 09:19 PM

[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] (As long as Its not some wierd material) just MIG it !! Like you said Its not even close to the barrel , chamber , bolt etc. Its just a friggen fastener for the stock..
What would happen if your weld broke while you were shooting it ??
Probably not a lot , nothin dangerous at least.

cntryboy1289 · May 24, 2006, 10:10 PM

Can you take a pic of it and show it to us. I am at a loss on exactly what it is that you are referring to. Most of the time, the screws will thread up into the receiver itself. At times, there is a base that is welded or soldered on, maybe this is what you are referring to. If it is, then yes, it can be soldered back on, but like I warned you about, you have to know how to control the heat and localize it to prevent causing problems up the receiver.

Let me tell you something about guns. Most are in the 40,000psi pressure range if they are a centerfire rifle. That my friend is enough to cause the action to split and come apart in various pieces at a high rate of speed that can blind and or kill someone, so even if it is just at the back of the receiver, don't just go to welding on it. Heat can and will travel up and down the receiver and ruin the tempering of the steel which is why I warned you about it. There are a lot of things that have to be taken into consideration when something is broke on a receiver and needs to be reattached. You can take that for what it is worth to you.

I would rather you take it to a smith and let him atleast tell you what he thinks needs to be done to the gun. Heat paste as well as wet rags can be used to control the heat, but you need to know what you are doing when it comes down to it. Best of luck with fixing the problem. I know you need to get it fixed and reattach the stock to the gun.

highrider_44s · May 24, 2006, 10:47 PM

ok here's a picture
mmmmmmmm i guess something's wrong with the site i can't upload it

highrider_44s · May 24, 2006, 10:52 PM

ok i couldnt post it here but here's a link to see what i'm talking about
http://www.funinbc.com/forum/showthr...972#post888972

Harry Bonar · May 26, 2006, 06:43 PM

Dear Shooter:
Oh!
Harry B.

highrider_44s · June 6, 2006, 11:02 PM

So after seeing the pic all i get is a oh!

mmmmmm

So what is it guys? Is this a difficult thing to repair?
Would a gun smith use a silver sauder on this or is there a different method?

cntryboy1289 · June 7, 2006, 01:33 AM

I couldn't see the pic myself. Use the attach photo button on here and make sure the image is 600x400 in size. I don't mind helping, just need to know for sure what it is I am going to be telling you how to fix it.

highrider_44s · June 8, 2006, 04:31 PM

James K · June 8, 2006, 08:06 PM

All that address does is point back to the forum, not to a picture.

Can you describe the rifle a bit more including any markings. The problem sounds like a broken tang and that should not happen with a good rifle.

Jim

highrider_44s · June 8, 2006, 11:31 PM

it's a remington model 788 243 cal

Harry Bonar · June 9, 2006, 11:16 AM

Dear Sir:
The rifle is a Remington 788? Do not, I repeat, do not, try to weld, solder, or braze ANY part of that action!
This rifle has been through very rough treatment to ever need any repair done anywhere on the action! It should not be done anywhere (even if Remington will do it) except it be Remington.
It appears from the various postings that you do not have the talents to do this! (this is not meant to insult you)! I'm familiar with the 788 and if any action part is broken off only Remington should do this repair!

The action on this rifle is extremely thick and rugged - it would have taken serious force to breaking any part of it - and that force I suspect could have done unseen damage to the action. This is a serious matter - not one to be toyed with by "shade-tree mechanics." (I'm not saying you are one).
Harry B.

liliysdad · June 10, 2006, 04:33 AM

I am of the firm belief that if you must ask whether a part should be soldered, brazed, or welded, you dont have the ability to do any of the three.

Another belief I have, even more firm, is that if you are unable to correctly spell solder, you shouldnt.

Harry Bonar · June 10, 2006, 04:06 PM

Dear Sir:
If I seemed patronizing, short or pedantic it wasn't intended to be anything personal; you came to the forum with a valid question and you're to be commended for that. All of us here have asked questions. But, on this particular action the locking lug recesses are milled into the rear of the reciever very close to what some are refering to as the tang, and correctly so. These recievers are high quality tubing (?) and are alloy steel that is heat-treated at Remington, probably to a hardness of about 35 to 40 on the C scale of the steel hardness tester they use. Now, heat-treating strengthes the action and bolt! So, if it is heated very much as in welding, soldering or brazing it can change the chemical state of your reciever and make it dangerous.
Now, if you're refering to the stud that the rear screw that holds the gun in the stock with, if you wrapped the action in cold rags so that just that area is heated, yes, you could braze that stud back in place yourself. I'm sure you're a good welder and brazer; just make sure your joint is clean, properly fluxed and what you need to braze do it quickly but we don't want any lug area heated above what you couild feel with your hand.
If the area is up around where the bbl screws into the action I'd junk it - but at the rear under the tang, yes, you could braze it if you're careful.
I'm sorry if you felt we were making fun, or talking down to you - we didn't intend that. If you would, after checking your action and have it fixed let us know how it went.
Your friends on the Forum Harry B.

dakotashooter2 · June 13, 2006, 05:10 PM

Also consider this. If it has already been repaired once it sounds like it was done incorrectly and that the reciever may have already suffered heat damage. Sending it to Remmington would beyour best bet let them evaluate and repair it.

May 23, 2006, 12:19 AM	#1
highrider_44s Member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Posts: 33	repairing rifles i need to either sauder or weld a peice back on a rifle i have. So my question is what's the best way to do this, what kind of a procedure should i follow and maby what materials to get?

May 23, 2006, 10:41 PM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Solder is generally used on shotgun barrels and to attach sights mounts on old Mausers and the like. There is real risk of welding cause assymetrical barrel stress in a high power rifle barrel becaus most have been heat treated. They are typically drawn back at about 1100 degrees F, so it may be OK to use a lower temperature silver brazing alloy on such a part. It depends on the barrel steel and how much stress the part is subject to? On a .22 rimfire or an old style muzzle loader this or welding would be satisfactory since the steel is usually soft to start with. Nick __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 24, 2006, 12:33 AM	#7
cntryboy1289 Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2004 Location: Ms Posts: 1,160	sorry, but I need to say it There's a huge difference between welding a couple of pieces of mild steel together and welding on firearms. I would also advise you that there is a lot more to soldering than you are capable of as well from the sound of it. Take the gun to a smith and let him fix it for you, otherwise, a mistake could kill you or the one standing next to you! Don't mean to rain on your parade, but welding on firearms isn't something to be taken lightly. Serious damage can and will result if you don't use the right rod and or flux and you can soften the receiver too much or leave it brittle, either of which can be a deadly combination on a gun.

May 24, 2006, 10:10 PM	#10
cntryboy1289 Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2004 Location: Ms Posts: 1,160	question Can you take a pic of it and show it to us. I am at a loss on exactly what it is that you are referring to. Most of the time, the screws will thread up into the receiver itself. At times, there is a base that is welded or soldered on, maybe this is what you are referring to. If it is, then yes, it can be soldered back on, but like I warned you about, you have to know how to control the heat and localize it to prevent causing problems up the receiver. Let me tell you something about guns. Most are in the 40,000psi pressure range if they are a centerfire rifle. That my friend is enough to cause the action to split and come apart in various pieces at a high rate of speed that can blind and or kill someone, so even if it is just at the back of the receiver, don't just go to welding on it. Heat can and will travel up and down the receiver and ruin the tempering of the steel which is why I warned you about it. There are a lot of things that have to be taken into consideration when something is broke on a receiver and needs to be reattached. You can take that for what it is worth to you. I would rather you take it to a smith and let him atleast tell you what he thinks needs to be done to the gun. Heat paste as well as wet rags can be used to control the heat, but you need to know what you are doing when it comes down to it. Best of luck with fixing the problem. I know you need to get it fixed and reattach the stock to the gun.

May 26, 2006, 06:43 PM	#13
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	welding-- Dear Shooter: Oh! Harry B.

May 23, 2006, 01:03 AM	#2
Majic Senior Member Join Date: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3,888	If you don't know how to weld then this is not how you learn. Also depending on where the part goes be sure you don't change the temper of the steel.

May 23, 2006, 09:13 PM	#3
highrider_44s Member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Posts: 33	i can weld i've welded lots i was thinking about using the mig but i've heard that you're soppose to sauder rifles the part that needs to be welded is a collared thead that broke off the bottom of the action. This is the one that you screw into from the bottom of the rifle to attach the barrel to the stalk ( O think that makes sence )

May 23, 2006, 09:15 PM	#4
highrider_44s Member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Posts: 33	i can weld i've welded lots i was thinking about using the mig but i've heard that you're soppose to sauder rifles the part that needs to be welded is a collared thead that broke off the bottom of the action. This is the one that you screw into from the bottom of the rifle to attach the barrel to the stalk ( O think that makes sence )

May 23, 2006, 09:16 PM	#5
highrider_44s Member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Posts: 33	i can weld i've welded lots i was thinking about using the mig but i've heard that you're soppose to sauder rifles the part that needs to be welded is a collared thead that broke off the bottom of the action. This is the one that you screw into from the bottom of the rifle to attach the barrel to the stalk ( I think that makes sence )

May 24, 2006, 08:52 PM	#8
highrider_44s Member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Posts: 33	I know enough to ask for advice when something needs to be welded properly. That why i'm asking and if i feel i can't do it then i'll take it somewere else. The part i'm looking to fix is no where near the barrel or on the bolt or the near the chamber it is at the rear of the action housing under the action behind the trigger and is used to bolt the stalk on, also the rifle is a .243 rem so it's not a super high powered gun. It looks like somone tryed to sauder it already and obvously they didn't do it right cause it broke again. So you think a silver braize would be the better way to go

May 24, 2006, 09:19 PM	#9
tomh1426 Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2005 Location: Youngtown Arizona Posts: 1,135	[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] (As long as Its not some wierd material) just MIG it !! Like you said Its not even close to the barrel , chamber , bolt etc. Its just a friggen fastener for the stock.. What would happen if your weld broke while you were shooting it ?? Probably not a lot , nothin dangerous at least.

May 24, 2006, 10:47 PM	#11
highrider_44s Member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Posts: 33	ok here's a picture mmmmmmmm i guess something's wrong with the site i can't upload it

May 24, 2006, 10:52 PM	#12
highrider_44s Member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Posts: 33	ok i couldnt post it here but here's a link to see what i'm talking about http://www.funinbc.com/forum/showthr...972#post888972

June 6, 2006, 11:02 PM	#14
highrider_44s Member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Posts: 33	So after seeing the pic all i get is a oh! mmmmmm So what is it guys? Is this a difficult thing to repair? Would a gun smith use a silver sauder on this or is there a different method?

June 7, 2006, 01:33 AM	#15
cntryboy1289 Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2004 Location: Ms Posts: 1,160	sorry, never saw pic I couldn't see the pic myself. Use the attach photo button on here and make sure the image is 600x400 in size. I don't mind helping, just need to know for sure what it is I am going to be telling you how to fix it.

June 8, 2006, 04:31 PM	#16
highrider_44s Member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Posts: 33

June 8, 2006, 08:06 PM	#17
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	All that address does is point back to the forum, not to a picture. Can you describe the rifle a bit more including any markings. The problem sounds like a broken tang and that should not happen with a good rifle. Jim

June 8, 2006, 11:31 PM	#18
highrider_44s Member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Posts: 33	it's a remington model 788 243 cal

June 9, 2006, 11:16 AM	#19
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	repairing rifles Dear Sir: The rifle is a Remington 788? Do not, I repeat, do not, try to weld, solder, or braze ANY part of that action! This rifle has been through very rough treatment to ever need any repair done anywhere on the action! It should not be done anywhere (even if Remington will do it) except it be Remington. It appears from the various postings that you do not have the talents to do this! (this is not meant to insult you)! I'm familiar with the 788 and if any action part is broken off only Remington should do this repair! The action on this rifle is extremely thick and rugged - it would have taken serious force to breaking any part of it - and that force I suspect could have done unseen damage to the action. This is a serious matter - not one to be toyed with by "shade-tree mechanics." (I'm not saying you are one). Harry B.

June 10, 2006, 04:33 AM	#20
liliysdad Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2004 Posts: 1,145	I am of the firm belief that if you must ask whether a part should be soldered, brazed, or welded, you dont have the ability to do any of the three. Another belief I have, even more firm, is that if you are unable to correctly spell solder, you shouldnt.

June 10, 2006, 04:06 PM	#21
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	soldering/welding/brazing Dear Sir: If I seemed patronizing, short or pedantic it wasn't intended to be anything personal; you came to the forum with a valid question and you're to be commended for that. All of us here have asked questions. But, on this particular action the locking lug recesses are milled into the rear of the reciever very close to what some are refering to as the tang, and correctly so. These recievers are high quality tubing (?) and are alloy steel that is heat-treated at Remington, probably to a hardness of about 35 to 40 on the C scale of the steel hardness tester they use. Now, heat-treating strengthes the action and bolt! So, if it is heated very much as in welding, soldering or brazing it can change the chemical state of your reciever and make it dangerous. Now, if you're refering to the stud that the rear screw that holds the gun in the stock with, if you wrapped the action in cold rags so that just that area is heated, yes, you could braze that stud back in place yourself. I'm sure you're a good welder and brazer; just make sure your joint is clean, properly fluxed and what you need to braze do it quickly but we don't want any lug area heated above what you couild feel with your hand. If the area is up around where the bbl screws into the action I'd junk it - but at the rear under the tang, yes, you could braze it if you're careful. I'm sorry if you felt we were making fun, or talking down to you - we didn't intend that. If you would, after checking your action and have it fixed let us know how it went. Your friends on the Forum Harry B.

June 13, 2006, 05:10 PM	#22
dakotashooter2 Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2005 Posts: 498	Also consider this. If it has already been repaired once it sounds like it was done incorrectly and that the reciever may have already suffered heat damage. Sending it to Remmington would beyour best bet let them evaluate and repair it.