Did first reloads tonight, comments?

junker · October 24, 2011, 08:10 PM

Well, I finally completed my first rounds. Took me about an hour to do 10 rounds.

I did five each of 38 special and 357 magnum. They are all 158 gr LSWC from MidAtlantic Bullets (I decided to put off casting my own until I figure out reloading). The 38's have 4.6 gr of Unique and the 357's have 6.0 gr of the same. I spent a lot of time adjusting dies and frigging with the powder dippers. The .5 cc lee dipper measured 4 grains of Unique instead of the 4.6 gr stated in the table it came with.

Anyhow, I used my ugliest brass figuring I'd screw these up. Picture is below. I would appreciate input on the crimps. The 38 in the lower right pushed in too far when I was just getting started, think its ok to shoot it?

Here is what I learned...

1. Lee 357 dies don't expand or crimp 38 special. Luckily I ended up with a set of 38 dies too when I bought some used gear.

2. I don't like these Lee powder dippers. They are slow and I had to weigh each load to get what I wanted.

3. Adjusting dies is a skill to be learned.

4. I think this is going to be an enjoyable hobby to pass the Maine winter.

mrawesome22 · October 24, 2011, 08:15 PM

Looks like some cases have different crimps than others.

Did you trim all the cases to the same length?

junker · October 24, 2011, 08:20 PM

Yes, all the 357's were the same length and the 38's were too. Variances are from me adjusting the dies as I went. Keep in mind these were my first and I was trying to "get a feel" for things. I have read a lot of books and forums but it doesn't seem to help much when you get to the actual adjusting of dies and feeling of the press.

mrawesome22 · October 24, 2011, 08:27 PM

Good deal. Now get some H110 and some XTP's

jim8115 · October 24, 2011, 10:07 PM

For what is worth, I have found that with 38's loaded with 4.6 grains of unique and Hornandy 158 Gr LSWC/HP... a very light crimp seems most accurate from my wife and my guns. Model 67 S&W and 2 Models 10's
4.0- 4.2 grains of W231 seems like a good load also, same light crimp.

jim8115 · October 24, 2011, 10:08 PM

By the way, you will never get unique to dip consistently, but W231 will

Lost Sheep · October 24, 2011, 11:32 PM

Sorry contradict you, jim8115, but I get Unique to mete powder within .1 grains all the time (in the range of 5-10 grains.) Consistency is vital and a good technique is key. Practice is how you get there and it takes some thought to select the right technique.

It can be done. Not easy, perhaps, but doable.

Doling out powder with dippers is a little slower than a powder measure, and the dippers deliver powder lighter than published (which is why even if you use dippers, a scale is a good tool to have). But they can be precise, if not accurate.

Junker, those crimps look a little more enthusiastic than 4 to 6 grains of Unique would need. If your bullets do not jump crimp under recoil of their brethren, you can ease up safely. Now, some powders, to get a reliable, consistent burn, require a healthy crimp. Unique is not one of those.

If you are going to shoot that 38 Special that has the bullet seated deeper than specificaion in a 38 Special revolver, I wouldn't. In a 357 magnum, maybe. Better it if you buy a $20 bullet puller (the intertial type) and give that round a few gentle raps. You can easily move the bullet out to the proper position that way and you will have bought a tool that is good to have available anyway.

Unless you have a very old set of Lee .357 Dies, they should be able to load 38 Special just as well, by adjusting the dies down in the press. However, since you already have both sets, this question is academic.

Adjusting dies, as you intimated, is a learned skill. Once learned, though, it is like riding a bicycle. It will become second nature to you.

Welcome to reloading and to the forum.

Good luck.

Lost Sheep

Lost Sheep

Don P · October 25, 2011, 07:46 AM

I too had the same problem with Unique powder. Did not would not meter with any consistency and the dippers were a pain. Thankfully the Unique is all gone. I found it to be a dirty loading powder leaving a lot of residue in the powder through die. IMO there are much better choices for powder out there. Lee's web sight even states that Unique will not meter well. For them to state that on there web sight it has to be a true statement otherwise Alliant would be all over them like a cheap suit.

spacecoast · October 25, 2011, 08:00 AM

Nice job on your first batch, looks like you did fine to me. I'm glad to hear that you checked your dippers, as I found that the Lee chart was "off" for both Unique and Accurate #2, but pretty accurate for H110 and Titegroup. YMMV. I've made a few of my own custom size dippers by sanding down the top surface of larger Lee dippers as well as from .25ACP and .32ACP cases.

Just FYI, and you don't have to be in a rush to try this (work up to it), but I find that 5.3 grains of Unique under a 158 gr. LSWC (as you have there) is a very good (and much, much less expensive) imitation of the .38 special Remington R38S12 158 gr. LSWCHP +P SD cartridge (aka the FBI load).

Jim243 · October 25, 2011, 08:10 PM

Looks like you are using your seating die to get a roll crimp. Bullet on the lower row far left looks perfect. But the next looks like you are starting to crush the cases, these will not fit in your cyclinder of the revolver.

You are doing two things with the seating die 1) setting OAL and 2) crimping the case.

Here is a little trick. With a full length resized case. Bring your ram all the way up with a empty case (no head, no powder, no primmer). Then start screwing in your die till it just touches the case. Bring your ram down and screw down the die a 1/8th turn. Bring up the ram with the empty case the remove the case and check the crimp, do the same over (down 1/8th turn) again and again till you have the crimp JUST RIGHT. You can resize that case over and over after it is set.

Lock down your die. Now with a bullet in an empty case bring up the ram and adjust the seating stem (not the die) till you get the right OAL. This will be your dummy round for testing in your gun for fit. Also can be used the next time for setting up that die with that bullet.

Now your die is setup and start loading.
Jim

Chaz88 · October 25, 2011, 08:50 PM

Agree with the others that the crimp is a bit too much. On similar loads for .38 and .357 I use little to almost no crimp. Just barley past making the wall straight again works for me. With .38's and say 2.5 to 2.7 grains bulls eye I just get the wall straight again and make sure they chamber.

junker · October 25, 2011, 08:50 PM

Jim243,

That is very useful information, thank you... just what I was looking for.

junker · October 25, 2011, 08:54 PM

Chaz88, thanks, that clarifies thing for me... I'll try easing up on the crimp.

Miata Mike · October 25, 2011, 10:20 PM

I didn't check your load info, but the crimps look good enough to start with. I also think you could back off on the crimps with Unique. A stiffer powder like 2400 might require a medium crimp.

I bought some .357 brass so I wouldn't have to deal with going back and forth with .38 special and .357 magnum.

Not saying I won't, but I have several hundred of the longer brass that I might not ever use my .38 special brass. I have a very nice recoil Bullseye load that I might just try in my Ruger SP101. Unique much to my surprise had a bit snappier recoil than the Bullseye load I tried.

October 24, 2011, 08:10 PM	#1
junker Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Posts: 65	Did first reloads tonight, comments? Well, I finally completed my first rounds. Took me about an hour to do 10 rounds. I did five each of 38 special and 357 magnum. They are all 158 gr LSWC from MidAtlantic Bullets (I decided to put off casting my own until I figure out reloading). The 38's have 4.6 gr of Unique and the 357's have 6.0 gr of the same. I spent a lot of time adjusting dies and frigging with the powder dippers. The .5 cc lee dipper measured 4 grains of Unique instead of the 4.6 gr stated in the table it came with. Anyhow, I used my ugliest brass figuring I'd screw these up. Picture is below. I would appreciate input on the crimps. The 38 in the lower right pushed in too far when I was just getting started, think its ok to shoot it? Here is what I learned... 1. Lee 357 dies don't expand or crimp 38 special. Luckily I ended up with a set of 38 dies too when I bought some used gear. 2. I don't like these Lee powder dippers. They are slow and I had to weigh each load to get what I wanted. 3. Adjusting dies is a skill to be learned. 4. I think this is going to be an enjoyable hobby to pass the Maine winter.

October 24, 2011, 11:32 PM	#7
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 3,341	Welcome to reloading and thanks for asking our advice Sorry contradict you, jim8115, but I get Unique to mete powder within .1 grains all the time (in the range of 5-10 grains.) Consistency is vital and a good technique is key. Practice is how you get there and it takes some thought to select the right technique. It can be done. Not easy, perhaps, but doable. Doling out powder with dippers is a little slower than a powder measure, and the dippers deliver powder lighter than published (which is why even if you use dippers, a scale is a good tool to have). But they can be precise, if not accurate. Junker, those crimps look a little more enthusiastic than 4 to 6 grains of Unique would need. If your bullets do not jump crimp under recoil of their brethren, you can ease up safely. Now, some powders, to get a reliable, consistent burn, require a healthy crimp. Unique is not one of those. If you are going to shoot that 38 Special that has the bullet seated deeper than specificaion in a 38 Special revolver, I wouldn't. In a 357 magnum, maybe. Better it if you buy a $20 bullet puller (the intertial type) and give that round a few gentle raps. You can easily move the bullet out to the proper position that way and you will have bought a tool that is good to have available anyway. Unless you have a very old set of Lee .357 Dies, they should be able to load 38 Special just as well, by adjusting the dies down in the press. However, since you already have both sets, this question is academic. Adjusting dies, as you intimated, is a learned skill. Once learned, though, it is like riding a bicycle. It will become second nature to you. Welcome to reloading and to the forum. Good luck. Lost Sheep Lost Sheep

October 25, 2011, 07:46 AM	#8
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	I too had the same problem with Unique powder. Did not would not meter with any consistency and the dippers were a pain. Thankfully the Unique is all gone. I found it to be a dirty loading powder leaving a lot of residue in the powder through die. IMO there are much better choices for powder out there. Lee's web sight even states that Unique will not meter well. For them to state that on there web sight it has to be a true statement otherwise Alliant would be all over them like a cheap suit. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

October 25, 2011, 08:10 PM	#10
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	Looks like you are using your seating die to get a roll crimp. Bullet on the lower row far left looks perfect. But the next looks like you are starting to crush the cases, these will not fit in your cyclinder of the revolver. You are doing two things with the seating die 1) setting OAL and 2) crimping the case. Here is a little trick. With a full length resized case. Bring your ram all the way up with a empty case (no head, no powder, no primmer). Then start screwing in your die till it just touches the case. Bring your ram down and screw down the die a 1/8th turn. Bring up the ram with the empty case the remove the case and check the crimp, do the same over (down 1/8th turn) again and again till you have the crimp JUST RIGHT. You can resize that case over and over after it is set. Lock down your die. Now with a bullet in an empty case bring up the ram and adjust the seating stem (not the die) till you get the right OAL. This will be your dummy round for testing in your gun for fit. Also can be used the next time for setting up that die with that bullet. Now your die is setup and start loading. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum Last edited by Jim243; October 25, 2011 at 08:18 PM.

October 25, 2011, 08:50 PM	#11
Chaz88 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2010 Posts: 1,243	Agree with the others that the crimp is a bit too much. On similar loads for .38 and .357 I use little to almost no crimp. Just barley past making the wall straight again works for me. With .38's and say 2.5 to 2.7 grains bulls eye I just get the wall straight again and make sure they chamber. __________________ Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time. No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it.

October 24, 2011, 08:15 PM	#2
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Looks like some cases have different crimps than others. Did you trim all the cases to the same length?

October 24, 2011, 08:20 PM	#3
junker Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Posts: 65	Yes, all the 357's were the same length and the 38's were too. Variances are from me adjusting the dies as I went. Keep in mind these were my first and I was trying to "get a feel" for things. I have read a lot of books and forums but it doesn't seem to help much when you get to the actual adjusting of dies and feeling of the press.

October 24, 2011, 08:27 PM	#4
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Good deal. Now get some H110 and some XTP's

October 24, 2011, 10:07 PM	#5
jim8115 Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2011 Location: Arkansas Posts: 229	For what is worth, I have found that with 38's loaded with 4.6 grains of unique and Hornandy 158 Gr LSWC/HP... a very light crimp seems most accurate from my wife and my guns. Model 67 S&W and 2 Models 10's 4.0- 4.2 grains of W231 seems like a good load also, same light crimp.

October 24, 2011, 10:08 PM	#6
jim8115 Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2011 Location: Arkansas Posts: 229	By the way, you will never get unique to dip consistently, but W231 will

October 25, 2011, 08:00 AM	#9
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	Nice job on your first batch, looks like you did fine to me. I'm glad to hear that you checked your dippers, as I found that the Lee chart was "off" for both Unique and Accurate #2, but pretty accurate for H110 and Titegroup. YMMV. I've made a few of my own custom size dippers by sanding down the top surface of larger Lee dippers as well as from .25ACP and .32ACP cases. Just FYI, and you don't have to be in a rush to try this (work up to it), but I find that 5.3 grains of Unique under a 158 gr. LSWC (as you have there) is a very good (and much, much less expensive) imitation of the .38 special Remington R38S12 158 gr. LSWCHP +P SD cartridge (aka the FBI load).

October 25, 2011, 08:54 PM	#13
junker Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Posts: 65	Chaz88, thanks, that clarifies thing for me... I'll try easing up on the crimp.

October 25, 2011, 10:20 PM	#14
Miata Mike Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2010 Location: North East WI Posts: 418	I didn't check your load info, but the crimps look good enough to start with. I also think you could back off on the crimps with Unique. A stiffer powder like 2400 might require a medium crimp. I bought some .357 brass so I wouldn't have to deal with going back and forth with .38 special and .357 magnum. Not saying I won't, but I have several hundred of the longer brass that I might not ever use my .38 special brass. I have a very nice recoil Bullseye load that I might just try in my Ruger SP101. Unique much to my surprise had a bit snappier recoil than the Bullseye load I tried.

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