Dual State Residency - can I ship to myself

GringoGrande · September 4, 2009, 02:38 AM

I am not a FFL holder, but I do have a dual residency between Ohio and Florida. 1/2 a year in Fla and 1/2 a year in Ohio. I have a Ohio drivers license and a Florida Sate ID and a Ohio CCW as well as a Fla CCW. I have a home in each state that I own and pay taxes on.

The Question is: Can I ship a firearm (unloaded pistol) to MYSELF between the states w/o using an FFL holder to transefer the firearm to me in the receiver state?

Case in point: I fly back and forth all the time and the last time I flew Contenental with a firearm in check in baggage I was damn near marked as a terrorist when I did exactly as the law required for notification and airline certification. I had tons of checks and at luggage pick up had to hunt down an employee (1/2 hour) to get the baggage unlocked from a cage.

I was wondering if I just ship it to myself each way when I come and go, I can forego all the airline hoopla.

I hate the thought of leaving a second firearm in an empty house for half the year, hence the reason to travel or send it.

goodspeed(TPF) · September 4, 2009, 09:59 AM

Bump for a great question.

brickeyee · September 4, 2009, 10:47 AM

You can always ship to yourself.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b9

Quote:

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? [Back]

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

Good luck persuading a common carrier to accept eh package though.
They have their own policies.

koolminx · September 4, 2009, 10:51 AM

Yeah, I was reading the rules and junk a while back and thought I saw that the only regular way to send a piece in the mail is to yourself...

You must be there to accept the package and to send the package I believe...

(F14) Who may ship handguns through the U.S. Postal Service? [Back]

Federal firearm licensees may send an unloaded handgun in the mail to another FFL in customary trade shipments. Handguns also may be mailed to any officer, employee, agent, or watchman who is eligible under 18 U.S.C. 1715 to receive pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person for use in connection with his or her official duties.

However, postal service regulations must be followed. Any person proposing to mail a handgun must file with the postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the addressee stating that the addressee is qualified to receive the firearm, and the affidavit must bear a certificate stating that the firearm is for the official use of the addressee. See the current Postal Manual for details.

The Postal Service recommends that all firearms be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. (See also Questions B7 and B8.)

I am going to try and find the Postal side of this in a second...

brickeyee · September 4, 2009, 02:29 PM

Only FFL to FFL can use the post office.

The rest of us must use a common carrier, like Fedex or UPS.

They each have their own policies (including overnight rules) that run the cost way up.

NavyLT · September 4, 2009, 07:25 PM

and typically UPS nor FEDEX will accept a handgun for shipment to a non-FFL (even to yourself), so good luck. Best bet is to fly with it, usually there is no hassle at all. Also, since it is being shipped to an out of state non-FFL (yes, even yourself), you must, by Federal law, inform the carrier of the shipment containing the firearm, in writing. I've got no idea how to do that.

GringoGrande · September 4, 2009, 11:16 PM

Brickeye: Thank you for the posting of the reference material via the ATF FAQ. That is what I was looking for. Now I have to see what carrier will do it.

For the three members who asked in a PM on how to get a dual residency. For my purpose, it was done via how long I live in each state. All states have a residency law/rule for obtaining things like drivers licenses, ID's, car plates and registraition, voting. Yep, you got it, I can vote twice legally, I even had my lawyer look into this paticular aspect.

You would have to check your state laws/rules for residency. Usually in days from like 90 to 240 a year.

To prove my state residency they required utility bills, bank statements, voting cards etc.

I can also purchase a firearm in either of the states (Ohio/Fla) I am in at the time, I just have to find a decent way to get em all back and forth.

MLeake · September 4, 2009, 11:50 PM

... why not just drive, and take the guns with you?

GringoGrande · September 6, 2009, 03:26 AM

LOL drive... that is close to a 20 hour trip if I drive straight through, normally a 2 1/2 - 3 day trip with stops and sleep overs in the Smokey Mountains and at South of the Border in SC. It is just 2 1/2 hours fly time and one day to get the guns by overnight to myself. I am not a young man anymore, long road trips do not appeal to me. Yes, I am about 1/2 year consecutive in each state. The airlines I fly truly treats you like a terrorist if you travel with a handgun in checked baggage, but their RT package is just $149.00 to Tampa and back.

45Gunner · September 6, 2009, 06:24 AM

I don't know the law but recently had to ship a gun to the manufacturer for a repair and other service. I placed it in the hard case it came in, unloaded of course, and then put that into a FEDEX box, and dropped it at a pickup center.
No Problem.

The gun manufacturer returned my gun via UPS. No FFL involved on my end to send or receive.

It only makes sense that you can ship your firearm to yourself as long as there is someone to sign for it.

NavyLT · September 6, 2009, 10:44 AM

How about obtaining a secure storage area and keeping guns at both locations and nor worrying about transporting them back and forth? Since you don't drive back and forth, do you keep vehicles at both locations? Locked in the vehicles a possibility?

brickeyee · September 6, 2009, 02:44 PM

Quote:

I don't know the law but recently had to ship a gun to the manufacturer for a repair and other service. I placed it in the hard case it came in, unloaded of course, and then put that into a FEDEX box, and dropped it at a pickup center.
No Problem.

The gun manufacturer returned my gun via UPS. No FFL involved on my end to send or receive.

You sent a gun to an FFL (the manufacturer), and they sent it back.

Some states place restrictions on having guns returned directly to the owner, but not the feds.

"...dropped it at a pickup center"

If the center was operated directly by Fedex fine, but if it was a a franchise location you violated Fedex rules.

GringoGrande · September 7, 2009, 02:31 AM

NavyLT: I was thinking of leaving them at a gun shop there or the police station. I would feel uneasy of leaving guns in a storage locker for 4-5 months. I know some gun clubs have storage facilities as well.

Here in Sandusky I have grown kids that live at home so I do keep many here. It is the fla location I am more concerned about. I am going to try the shipping them to myself this week. I will report back how it went.

My brother drives with his, but he is younger than I am and can take those longer road trips. I can barely sit in a car long enough just top goto our cabin in PA and back in a car.

45gunner: Nothing about current firearms laws makes any sense to me, what seems logical to me, turns out to be damn near the opposit of what the laws are.

blume357 · September 7, 2009, 07:14 AM

with that said... I would still check them while flying if for no other reason your local TSA folks at the airport seem to need the training.....

Out of all the choices given, I kind of like the idea of having guns at both locations.... there has to be a way to keep a few secure in Florida. I look more into that while down their this time.

NavyLT · September 7, 2009, 10:23 AM

The police handling YOUR guns for any reason is a bad idea!

shooter_from_show-me · September 7, 2009, 01:34 PM

^^^what he said

GringoGrande · September 8, 2009, 03:31 AM

Ok..... friday I UPS'd two psitols to myself overnite, I will be there today and my daughter is already there. UPS's accepted them as long as they were sent over nite, damn $37.00. They did tell me that many people send firearms to themselves in other states, she pointed out that many competition shooters do this.

My flight should be there in Tampa by 11:30am from Cleveland where I am driving to to fly out of with my brother.

I will report on what I find down there as a way of secure storage.

Catch ya all later..... time to get to the airport.

Wow, gee guys, I was a cop...... you think I cannot trust them ??? sheeesh

Personally local cops I trust, it is the State and Feds that kind of spook me on anything having to do with firearms and the general public. I have seen way too much happen over the last 20 years.

blume357 · September 8, 2009, 07:42 AM

I don't know that I saw it in any of your previous post... where in Florida?

I've got some friends down there that might could help with storage. One friend on the Gulf cost has a storm room with about 500 guns in it, I think.

goodspeed(TPF) · September 8, 2009, 08:21 AM

Thanks for the update.

raftman · September 10, 2009, 12:09 AM

$37? Really? Last time I sent a pistol overnight (it was to an FFL, not to myself) it was $60.

maestro pistolero · September 10, 2009, 12:26 AM

Quote:

The airlines I fly truly treats you like a terrorist if you travel with a handgun in checked baggage,

What airline is that, if you don't mind? I travel all the time with checked handguns, on a few different airlines, I've never has a problem or an attitude in twenty years of it.

blume357 · September 10, 2009, 05:50 AM

the two times I flew and had to check in a firearm the attendant at the ticket counter / check in just called airport security (TSA) and they are the ones that deal with the firearm.

when flying out from my hometown the TSA agent inspected the firearm and container...

when flying back from Reno I got ready to show them and the guy didn't even want to look... now down the conveyer belt who knows what they did. Don't think the lock you put on the case means anything to the TSA, I think they can open any type of lock you put on.

You get to Florida yet Gator?

jgcoastie · September 10, 2009, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Don't think the lock you put on the case means anything to the TSA, I think they can open any type of lock you put on.

From TSA's website:

Quote:

# You must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
# The firearm must be unloaded.
# The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.
# The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you. Cases that can be pulled open with little effort do not meet this criterion. The pictures provided here illustrate the difference between a properly packaged and an improperly packaged firearm.
# We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain present during screening to take the key back after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft. TSA locks are not approved for securing firearms.

Emphasis added.

Shouldn't that mean that TSA wouldn't have access to the contents of your gun case after you close and lock it?

blume357 · September 11, 2009, 08:45 AM

to Reno the TSA agent taped/secured the firearm declaration card to the outside of my locked carry case (lock was a basic master lock, not TSA keyed) when I got to my hotel in Reno and opened my luggage and carry case the firearm declaration tag was inside the case.

Also, my checked luggage bag with the cased gun had one of those new fangled TSA locks that has a red flag indicator to show if someone has unlocked the lock other than you... the flag was not showing... but I had one of those "for your protection your luggage has been inspected by the TSA" inside.

**44 AMP** · September 11, 2009, 10:54 AM

S&W. Washington to Arizona. Gun in case, case locked. He was there, declared gun, remained available while TSA arrived, opened case, yada, yada, locked it when they were through. Case went into his luggage. Arrived Tuscon, no trouble.

If you are not there, they will cut your lock, then they will not put your gun on the plane (because they cut the lock), so be there when you check it in, and stay there until they are all done. Then lock it, and keep the key.

Yes, its a hassle, but you can still do it, and be legal.

September 4, 2009, 02:38 AM	#1
GringoGrande Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2009 Location: Sandusky, Ohio Posts: 131	Dual State Residency - can I ship to myself I am not a FFL holder, but I do have a dual residency between Ohio and Florida. 1/2 a year in Fla and 1/2 a year in Ohio. I have a Ohio drivers license and a Florida Sate ID and a Ohio CCW as well as a Fla CCW. I have a home in each state that I own and pay taxes on. The Question is: Can I ship a firearm (unloaded pistol) to MYSELF between the states w/o using an FFL holder to transefer the firearm to me in the receiver state? Case in point: I fly back and forth all the time and the last time I flew Contenental with a firearm in check in baggage I was damn near marked as a terrorist when I did exactly as the law required for notification and airline certification. I had tons of checks and at luggage pick up had to hunt down an employee (1/2 hour) to get the baggage unlocked from a cage. I was wondering if I just ship it to myself each way when I come and go, I can forego all the airline hoopla. I hate the thought of leaving a second firearm in an empty house for half the year, hence the reason to travel or send it. __________________ If you don't stand behind our troops, then how about you standing in front of them. Next time you see a vet or active duty USA Military person, just say thank you, they will know what it is for.

September 4, 2009, 09:59 AM	#2
goodspeed(TPF) Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Location: WI Posts: 1,162	Bump for a great question. __________________ It's a trick. Get an axe. http://www.thepiratefleet.com/index.shtml

September 4, 2009, 11:16 PM	#7
GringoGrande Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2009 Location: Sandusky, Ohio Posts: 131	Brickeye: Thank you for the posting of the reference material via the ATF FAQ. That is what I was looking for. Now I have to see what carrier will do it. For the three members who asked in a PM on how to get a dual residency. For my purpose, it was done via how long I live in each state. All states have a residency law/rule for obtaining things like drivers licenses, ID's, car plates and registraition, voting. Yep, you got it, I can vote twice legally, I even had my lawyer look into this paticular aspect. You would have to check your state laws/rules for residency. Usually in days from like 90 to 240 a year. To prove my state residency they required utility bills, bank statements, voting cards etc. I can also purchase a firearm in either of the states (Ohio/Fla) I am in at the time, I just have to find a decent way to get em all back and forth. __________________ If you don't stand behind our troops, then how about you standing in front of them. Next time you see a vet or active duty USA Military person, just say thank you, they will know what it is for.

September 4, 2009, 11:50 PM	#8
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	If you are going for six months at a time... ... why not just drive, and take the guns with you?

September 6, 2009, 03:26 AM	#9
GringoGrande Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2009 Location: Sandusky, Ohio Posts: 131	LOL drive... that is close to a 20 hour trip if I drive straight through, normally a 2 1/2 - 3 day trip with stops and sleep overs in the Smokey Mountains and at South of the Border in SC. It is just 2 1/2 hours fly time and one day to get the guns by overnight to myself. I am not a young man anymore, long road trips do not appeal to me. Yes, I am about 1/2 year consecutive in each state. The airlines I fly truly treats you like a terrorist if you travel with a handgun in checked baggage, but their RT package is just $149.00 to Tampa and back. __________________ If you don't stand behind our troops, then how about you standing in front of them. Next time you see a vet or active duty USA Military person, just say thank you, they will know what it is for.

September 4, 2009, 10:51 AM	#4
koolminx Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2009 Posts: 520	Yeah, I was reading the rules and junk a while back and thought I saw that the only regular way to send a piece in the mail is to yourself... You must be there to accept the package and to send the package I believe... (F14) Who may ship handguns through the U.S. Postal Service? [Back] Federal firearm licensees may send an unloaded handgun in the mail to another FFL in customary trade shipments. Handguns also may be mailed to any officer, employee, agent, or watchman who is eligible under 18 U.S.C. 1715 to receive pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person for use in connection with his or her official duties. However, postal service regulations must be followed. Any person proposing to mail a handgun must file with the postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the addressee stating that the addressee is qualified to receive the firearm, and the affidavit must bear a certificate stating that the firearm is for the official use of the addressee. See the current Postal Manual for details. The Postal Service recommends that all firearms be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. (See also Questions B7 and B8.) I am going to try and find the Postal side of this in a second...

September 4, 2009, 02:29 PM	#5
brickeyee Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2004 Posts: 3,351	Only FFL to FFL can use the post office. The rest of us must use a common carrier, like Fedex or UPS. They each have their own policies (including overnight rules) that run the cost way up.

September 4, 2009, 07:25 PM	#6
NavyLT Junior member Join Date: January 25, 2006 Location: Oak Harbor, WA Posts: 1,719	and typically UPS nor FEDEX will accept a handgun for shipment to a non-FFL (even to yourself), so good luck. Best bet is to fly with it, usually there is no hassle at all. Also, since it is being shipped to an out of state non-FFL (yes, even yourself), you must, by Federal law, inform the carrier of the shipment containing the firearm, in writing. I've got no idea how to do that.

September 6, 2009, 06:24 AM	#10
45Gunner Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,902	I don't know the law but recently had to ship a gun to the manufacturer for a repair and other service. I placed it in the hard case it came in, unloaded of course, and then put that into a FEDEX box, and dropped it at a pickup center. No Problem. The gun manufacturer returned my gun via UPS. No FFL involved on my end to send or receive. It only makes sense that you can ship your firearm to yourself as long as there is someone to sign for it. __________________ 45Gunner May the Schwartz Be With You. NRA Instructor NRA Life Member

September 6, 2009, 10:44 AM	#11
NavyLT Junior member Join Date: January 25, 2006 Location: Oak Harbor, WA Posts: 1,719	How about obtaining a secure storage area and keeping guns at both locations and nor worrying about transporting them back and forth? Since you don't drive back and forth, do you keep vehicles at both locations? Locked in the vehicles a possibility?

September 7, 2009, 02:31 AM	#13
GringoGrande Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2009 Location: Sandusky, Ohio Posts: 131	NavyLT: I was thinking of leaving them at a gun shop there or the police station. I would feel uneasy of leaving guns in a storage locker for 4-5 months. I know some gun clubs have storage facilities as well. Here in Sandusky I have grown kids that live at home so I do keep many here. It is the fla location I am more concerned about. I am going to try the shipping them to myself this week. I will report back how it went. My brother drives with his, but he is younger than I am and can take those longer road trips. I can barely sit in a car long enough just top goto our cabin in PA and back in a car. 45gunner: Nothing about current firearms laws makes any sense to me, what seems logical to me, turns out to be damn near the opposit of what the laws are. __________________ If you don't stand behind our troops, then how about you standing in front of them. Next time you see a vet or active duty USA Military person, just say thank you, they will know what it is for.

September 7, 2009, 07:14 AM	#14
blume357 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 3,943	You should be fine with shipping them to yourself, with that said... I would still check them while flying if for no other reason your local TSA folks at the airport seem to need the training..... Out of all the choices given, I kind of like the idea of having guns at both locations.... there has to be a way to keep a few secure in Florida. I look more into that while down their this time.

September 7, 2009, 10:23 AM	#15
NavyLT Junior member Join Date: January 25, 2006 Location: Oak Harbor, WA Posts: 1,719	The police handling YOUR guns for any reason is a bad idea!

September 7, 2009, 01:34 PM	#16
shooter_from_show-me Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 231	^^^what he said __________________ When the government fears the people, you have liberty. When the people fear the government, you have tyranny. ~ Thomas Jefferson NRA Life Member

September 8, 2009, 03:31 AM	#17
GringoGrande Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2009 Location: Sandusky, Ohio Posts: 131	Ok..... friday I UPS'd two psitols to myself overnite, I will be there today and my daughter is already there. UPS's accepted them as long as they were sent over nite, damn $37.00. They did tell me that many people send firearms to themselves in other states, she pointed out that many competition shooters do this. My flight should be there in Tampa by 11:30am from Cleveland where I am driving to to fly out of with my brother. I will report on what I find down there as a way of secure storage. Catch ya all later..... time to get to the airport. Wow, gee guys, I was a cop...... you think I cannot trust them ??? sheeesh Personally local cops I trust, it is the State and Feds that kind of spook me on anything having to do with firearms and the general public. I have seen way too much happen over the last 20 years. __________________ If you don't stand behind our troops, then how about you standing in front of them. Next time you see a vet or active duty USA Military person, just say thank you, they will know what it is for.

September 8, 2009, 07:42 AM	#18
blume357 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 3,943	Safe flight and happy trails Gringo... I don't know that I saw it in any of your previous post... where in Florida? I've got some friends down there that might could help with storage. One friend on the Gulf cost has a storm room with about 500 guns in it, I think.

September 8, 2009, 08:21 AM	#19
goodspeed(TPF) Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Location: WI Posts: 1,162	Thanks for the update. __________________ It's a trick. Get an axe. http://www.thepiratefleet.com/index.shtml

September 10, 2009, 12:09 AM	#20
raftman Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,890	$37? Really? Last time I sent a pistol overnight (it was to an FFL, not to myself) it was $60.

September 10, 2009, 05:50 AM	#22
blume357 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 3,943	I think the brand of airline has very little to do with it.... the two times I flew and had to check in a firearm the attendant at the ticket counter / check in just called airport security (TSA) and they are the ones that deal with the firearm. when flying out from my hometown the TSA agent inspected the firearm and container... when flying back from Reno I got ready to show them and the guy didn't even want to look... now down the conveyer belt who knows what they did. Don't think the lock you put on the case means anything to the TSA, I think they can open any type of lock you put on. You get to Florida yet Gator?

September 11, 2009, 08:45 AM	#24
blume357 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 3,943	I don't have a lot of experience with it, but the time I flew to Reno the TSA agent taped/secured the firearm declaration card to the outside of my locked carry case (lock was a basic master lock, not TSA keyed) when I got to my hotel in Reno and opened my luggage and carry case the firearm declaration tag was inside the case. Also, my checked luggage bag with the cased gun had one of those new fangled TSA locks that has a red flag indicator to show if someone has unlocked the lock other than you... the flag was not showing... but I had one of those "for your protection your luggage has been inspected by the TSA" inside.

September 11, 2009, 10:54 AM	#25
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,804	My son flew with his 1911 last month S&W. Washington to Arizona. Gun in case, case locked. He was there, declared gun, remained available while TSA arrived, opened case, yada, yada, locked it when they were through. Case went into his luggage. Arrived Tuscon, no trouble. If you are not there, they will cut your lock, then they will not put your gun on the plane (because they cut the lock), so be there when you check it in, and stay there until they are all done. Then lock it, and keep the key. Yes, its a hassle, but you can still do it, and be legal. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

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