Primer confusion

Budman2 · October 12, 2007, 01:45 PM

I'm still new to reloading, and frankly, I'm in that phase where I'm reading more than doing. At this point, I understand that there are different sizes of primer... Large Rifle, Small Rifle, CCI 500, 550, and 300.... I get that you gotta get the right size for the hole!

But, is there really any discernable difference in primer brand? I figure, you buy these in a box of 1,000 and therefore for the next 1,000 rounds.. at least there gonna shoot the same. Buy cheap, but from a reliable manufactuer.. Any recommendations or other thoughts?

Oh yea, I load for my 270 rifle, but want to start for a 45ACP and maybe 38/357 too.

Linear Thinker · October 12, 2007, 01:59 PM

Bud,
Search the archives for this board, this is a VERY popular topic. Executive summary:

There are 4 common "sizes" of Boxer primers, and several "types" of each.

Size 1: Small pistol/Small rifle. Same diameter and height.
Size 2: Large pistol
Size 3: Large rifle (same diameter as LP but taller).
Size 4: 50BMG

The first 3 sizes come in regular and magnum versions. The magnums typically have 20% more brisance (spark) than non-magnums. Some powders need magnum primers for consistent ignition - check the load data.

Then there are bench-rest varieties of all of the above. Costing more $$, they are made to tighter tolerances, important to match shooters.

Then there are "Military" versions of the small- and large-rifle primers, with harder cups to prevent slam-fires.

Did I miss anything?

Oh, back to your specific question: The differences are minor, the primers are fungible across makes. When switching brands, you may need to back your loads down to avoid pressure surprises - this is a universal advise when changing any ingredient in a load.
Winchester primers are known to be hotter than other makes, Federals have the softest cups.

LT

rwilson452 · October 12, 2007, 02:10 PM

Ok, Large Rifle, Small rifle. Large pistol, Small pistol. All these are different sizes. Large rifle and pistol primer are of the same diameter but of a different depth. same again for small rifle and pistol. same diameter but different depth.
Pistol primers being shorter than rifle primers. So basicly you have four cup sizes. but its whats inside that counts..

Magnum primers are "hotter" than standard primers ( more bang). Each manufacturer has generally different sensitivity than the other . Federals are considered the most sensitive. where CCI are considered the least sensitive. Mil. spec primers are the least sensitive. By sensitive I mean what it takes to make them go bang. I believe winchester doesn't make a magnum rifle primer so to speak but their large rifle primer has a compound that makes it burn better but not necessarily more explosive. the substance inside the primer is propriatary and a trade secret. There are finite differences between the different companies primers and they ain't talking except to say theirs are better. each company has a different name for their primers. Example: a smal rifle primer. in a winchester product it is a WSR primer. in CCI it's a 400 primer. the only time you need to really be concerned about the difference is when working up at max or minimum load values changing primers can have an effect on accuracy but it's usually very small. IF your make your loads at or near max and change mfg. back off and work back up.

kenneth owens · October 12, 2007, 02:20 PM

I still think color coding primers is the way to go,I know they color code inside the cup,why not color code the outside??? yellow-sm pistol, red- lg pistol. well, you get the picture.

Budman2 · October 12, 2007, 02:25 PM

Again, the forum comes thru. Now, I understand -- get the right size! And, they aren't so expensive that it really makes a big impact on the cost per round. Really appreciate the thoughtful note. Thanks

Wildalaska · October 12, 2007, 02:29 PM

If you google "primer brisance" you will get a bunch of threads, including this

http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_t..._reference.htm

WildenjoyAlaska ™

I use 210s and 210ms myself

Linear Thinker · October 12, 2007, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Large rifle and pistol primer are of the same diameter but of a different depth. same again for small rifle and pistol. same diameter but different depth.
Pistol primers being shorter than rifle primers. So basicly you have four cup sizes.

Not so. Small pistol and small rifle primers are dimensionally identical: 0.175" diameter, 0.110" height
Large rifle and pistol primers share the diameter: 0.210", but not the height.
LT

rwilson452 · October 12, 2007, 02:47 PM

Aw, Wild, I was tring to KISS this he seemd confused enough without getting into "primer brisance".

BigJimP · October 12, 2007, 03:51 PM

The other responses have given you the specs on sizes, etc - but Federal primers are a little soft - and as such, you may want to check with the mfg of the press you are using - and they may not recommend Federal primers ( as an example, Dillon does not recommend using them ). There are some scary reports of presses blowing up using Fed primers - so I'd be cautious there. But in general, if you seat them gently, not overly aggressively, you can use Federal primers. If you mash one into a pocket - it will probably go off - that would be a bad thing and there are reports out there that it may cause a chain reaction of igniting the other primers you have in the press. If I was using Federal primers, I would wear a face mask/safety shield vs just regular safety glasses.

Personally, I use Winchester or CCI primers. CCI's are my primary - and I've used them for well over 40 years now. CCI is generally considered "not the best" in terms of quality control, but I've never had a problem with them.

castnblast · October 12, 2007, 04:19 PM

I prefer CCI large rifle primers also. You don't have to worry about them going bang in the press. When I used to shoot IPSC style shooting 12+ years ago, I used CCI pistol in my 1050. You don't want those things going bang when you're loading at a rate of 1000/hr.

BigJimP · October 12, 2007, 06:56 PM

Not to mention, if they went bang in the press ......I'd have to dump the urine out of both shoes ... and at least change my socks ...and it would scratch up the press something fierce (not the way to spend a leisurly evening loading ...).

I wear safety glasses when I load / but I can't imagine having a single primer go off / let alone having a chain reaction kaboom ..... damn what a scary mess that would be.

October 12, 2007, 01:45 PM	#1
Budman2 Member Join Date: April 16, 2006 Location: JAX Posts: 33	Primer confusion I'm still new to reloading, and frankly, I'm in that phase where I'm reading more than doing. At this point, I understand that there are different sizes of primer... Large Rifle, Small Rifle, CCI 500, 550, and 300.... I get that you gotta get the right size for the hole! But, is there really any discernable difference in primer brand? I figure, you buy these in a box of 1,000 and therefore for the next 1,000 rounds.. at least there gonna shoot the same. Buy cheap, but from a reliable manufactuer.. Any recommendations or other thoughts? Oh yea, I load for my 270 rifle, but want to start for a 45ACP and maybe 38/357 too.

October 12, 2007, 01:59 PM	#2
Linear Thinker Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2007 Location: Blue State, NE US Posts: 202	Bud, Search the archives for this board, this is a VERY popular topic. Executive summary: There are 4 common "sizes" of Boxer primers, and several "types" of each. Size 1: Small pistol/Small rifle. Same diameter and height. Size 2: Large pistol Size 3: Large rifle (same diameter as LP but taller). Size 4: 50BMG The first 3 sizes come in regular and magnum versions. The magnums typically have 20% more brisance (spark) than non-magnums. Some powders need magnum primers for consistent ignition - check the load data. Then there are bench-rest varieties of all of the above. Costing more $$, they are made to tighter tolerances, important to match shooters. Then there are "Military" versions of the small- and large-rifle primers, with harder cups to prevent slam-fires. Did I miss anything? Oh, back to your specific question: The differences are minor, the primers are fungible across makes. When switching brands, you may need to back your loads down to avoid pressure surprises - this is a universal advise when changing any ingredient in a load. Winchester primers are known to be hotter than other makes, Federals have the softest cups. LT Last edited by Linear Thinker; October 12, 2007 at 07:02 PM.

October 12, 2007, 02:20 PM	#4
kenneth owens Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2006 Posts: 355	color coded I still think color coding primers is the way to go,I know they color code inside the cup,why not color code the outside??? yellow-sm pistol, red- lg pistol. well, you get the picture.

October 12, 2007, 02:25 PM	#5
Budman2 Member Join Date: April 16, 2006 Location: JAX Posts: 33	Thanks Again, the forum comes thru. Now, I understand -- get the right size! And, they aren't so expensive that it really makes a big impact on the cost per round. Really appreciate the thoughtful note. Thanks

October 12, 2007, 02:47 PM	#8
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	"primer brisance" Aw, Wild, I was tring to KISS this he seemd confused enough without getting into "primer brisance".

October 12, 2007, 02:10 PM	#3
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	Ok, Large Rifle, Small rifle. Large pistol, Small pistol. All these are different sizes. Large rifle and pistol primer are of the same diameter but of a different depth. same again for small rifle and pistol. same diameter but different depth. Pistol primers being shorter than rifle primers. So basicly you have four cup sizes. but its whats inside that counts.. Magnum primers are "hotter" than standard primers ( more bang). Each manufacturer has generally different sensitivity than the other . Federals are considered the most sensitive. where CCI are considered the least sensitive. Mil. spec primers are the least sensitive. By sensitive I mean what it takes to make them go bang. I believe winchester doesn't make a magnum rifle primer so to speak but their large rifle primer has a compound that makes it burn better but not necessarily more explosive. the substance inside the primer is propriatary and a trade secret. There are finite differences between the different companies primers and they ain't talking except to say theirs are better. each company has a different name for their primers. Example: a smal rifle primer. in a winchester product it is a WSR primer. in CCI it's a 400 primer. the only time you need to really be concerned about the difference is when working up at max or minimum load values changing primers can have an effect on accuracy but it's usually very small. IF your make your loads at or near max and change mfg. back off and work back up.

October 12, 2007, 02:29 PM	#6
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	If you google "primer brisance" you will get a bunch of threads, including this http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_t..._reference.htm WildenjoyAlaska ™ I use 210s and 210ms myself

October 12, 2007, 03:51 PM	#9
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	The other responses have given you the specs on sizes, etc - but Federal primers are a little soft - and as such, you may want to check with the mfg of the press you are using - and they may not recommend Federal primers ( as an example, Dillon does not recommend using them ). There are some scary reports of presses blowing up using Fed primers - so I'd be cautious there. But in general, if you seat them gently, not overly aggressively, you can use Federal primers. If you mash one into a pocket - it will probably go off - that would be a bad thing and there are reports out there that it may cause a chain reaction of igniting the other primers you have in the press. If I was using Federal primers, I would wear a face mask/safety shield vs just regular safety glasses. Personally, I use Winchester or CCI primers. CCI's are my primary - and I've used them for well over 40 years now. CCI is generally considered "not the best" in terms of quality control, but I've never had a problem with them.

October 12, 2007, 04:19 PM	#10
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	I prefer CCI large rifle primers also. You don't have to worry about them going bang in the press. When I used to shoot IPSC style shooting 12+ years ago, I used CCI pistol in my 1050. You don't want those things going bang when you're loading at a rate of 1000/hr. __________________ VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter

October 12, 2007, 06:56 PM	#11
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Not to mention, if they went bang in the press ......I'd have to dump the urine out of both shoes ... and at least change my socks ...and it would scratch up the press something fierce (not the way to spend a leisurly evening loading ...). I wear safety glasses when I load / but I can't imagine having a single primer go off / let alone having a chain reaction kaboom ..... damn what a scary mess that would be.