Mixed Results after todays reloads

verti89 · June 20, 2009, 07:08 PM

My dad and I jusgt finished testing our reloads. We loaded .45 and .40, the .40s went flawlessly. However our .45s had us scratching our heads. Since we are noobs I wanted to bring our issue to the pros.

a couple weeks ago we finished our very first reloads. 4.7gr of Red Dot behind some 200 gr. hornady XTP HPs. Those shot flawlessly and had us riding high.

today we loaded up some wadcutters, and came crashing back to earth. We used 4.0 gr of the same red dot behind our 200gr jacketed swc's. Our OAL was between 1.265 and 1.27 which according to our books was under the max oal of 1.275 for the .45. We went to fire them through our 3 guns (2 identical XDs and 1 Springfield 1911) and had issues. First in the XDs they would fire fine but were having trouble ejecting and/or loading the next cartridge. Sometimes the fired shot would not eject at all, sometimes it would eject fine but the next cartridge wouldn't chamber fully. It was almost every single shot that was having issues when fired through each of the Xds. The 1911 was a bit more forgiving but probably 3 total times per mag there were issues which is still way too high for any sort of dependability. On a side not the cases we did fire had a black streak on them that I think was due to them being light loads and not completely sealing off.

Our first thought was that the cartridges were too long so we went back to the table to set them down a bit further. We got them down to about 1.228 OAL which was almost identical to the factory rounds. These still had problems every time thru the Xds but were much better in the 1911 with it only failing once in 3 mags.

We decided to test a bit more. We loaded them with the previously loaded HPs that were firing fine. The result was that if the HP was fird before the new wadcutters it would have the same issues ejecting and/or chambering the next round. If the Hps were loaded after the wadcutters again they would not chamber correctly. But if we loaded a magazine with only the HPs it worked flawlessly. So basically we are baffled because it seems that any combination of ammo involving the new wadcutters had serious issues.

The two things that we thought it might be ended up not being realistic. The length thing was accounted for and made to match the factory ammo in OAL. If it were a pressure issue due to the light load it seems that they would still chamber fine following one of the HPs.

On a side note the brass was an assortment and the primers used were CCI.

Please offer any advice you might have or if you need any more info I will do my best to answer it thanks.

rwilson452 · June 20, 2009, 07:26 PM

First off, Pull the barrel from your 1911 and drop one in the barrel. don't force it just let it drop in. the round should be even or just slightly below the tang.

I have a picture but don't know how to put it up.

Some XD's Like mine absolutely positively do not like SWC bullets.

Quote:

Mixed Results after todays reloads
My dad and I jusgt finished testing our reloads. We loaded .45 and .40, the .40s went flawlessly. However our .45s had us scratching our heads. Since we are noobs I wanted to bring our issue to the pros.

a couple weeks ago we finished our very first reloads. 4.7gr of Red Dot behind some 200 gr. hornady XTP HPs. Those shot flawlessly and had us riding high.

today we loaded up some wadcutters, and came crashing back to earth. We used 4.0 gr of the same red dot behind our 200gr jacketed swc's. Our OAL was between 1.265 and 1.27 which according to our books was under the max oal of 1.275 for the .45. We went to fire them through our 3 guns (2 identical XDs and 1 Springfield 1911) and had issues. First in the XDs they would fire fine but were having trouble ejecting and/or loading the next cartridge. Sometimes the fired shot would not eject at all, sometimes it would eject fine but the next cartridge wouldn't chamber fully. It was almost every single shot that was having issues when fired through each of the Xds. The 1911 was a bit more forgiving but probably 3 total times per mag there were issues which is still way too high for any sort of dependability. On a side not the cases we did fire had a black streak on them that I think was due to them being light loads and not completely sealing off.

Our first thought was that the cartridges were too long so we went back to the table to set them down a bit further. We got them down to about 1.228 OAL which was almost identical to the factory rounds. These still had problems every time thru the Xds but were much better in the 1911 with it only failing once in 3 mags.

We decided to test a bit more. We loaded them with the previously loaded HPs that were firing fine. The result was that if the HP was fird before the new wadcutters it would have the same issues ejecting and/or chambering the next round. If the Hps were loaded after the wadcutters again they would not chamber correctly. But if we loaded a magazine with only the HPs it worked flawlessly. So basically we are baffled because it seems that any combination of ammo involving the new wadcutters had serious issues.

The two things that we thought it might be ended up not being realistic. The length thing was accounted for and made to match the factory ammo in OAL. If it were a pressure issue due to the light load it seems that they would still chamber fine following one of the HPs.

On a side note the brass was an assortment and the primers used were CCI.

Please offer any advice you might have or if you need any more info I will do my best to answer it thanks.

verti89 · June 20, 2009, 08:42 PM

K I will try that, though I have to admit as of yet I cannot figure out how to get my barrel completely out of my 1911. I have only disassembled it twice for cleaning though.

It would be really unfortunate if its just the gun doesnt like the SWC bullets because we have about 900 more of them....

CrustyFN · June 20, 2009, 08:47 PM

Here you go rwilson, good picture.

Jim Watson · June 20, 2009, 08:53 PM

It didn't come with instructions?

Go to "disassembly" in the left menu at:
http://www.m1911.org/m1911dt.htm

Rounds must chamber freely. As illustrated the case head should fetch up flush with or slightly below the barrel hood when loading semiwadcutters.

Do you taper crimp? As a separate step?
How about the ones you seated deeper, did that scrape up a ring of lead at the case mouth?

Foreign pistols are not really built for semiwadcutters. If they feed, great, but you cannot count on it. You can probably straighten out your 1911 but the XD may not cooperate.

verti89 · June 20, 2009, 09:57 PM

We are using the Lee dies and the bullet seating die does a taper crimp, but we do not do it as an additional step. When we seated them further there was no ring of lead around the outside of the case, so it wasnt shaving it.

As far as instructions to remove the barrel. I know how to take the slide and spring off per the included instructions and can then get the brush at least all the way thru the barrel. But I cannot seem to get the barrel out completely on its own. I will check that site out though thanks.

Just checked out that site...im a moron the bushing comes off I guess i read to fast when I read the instructions...anyways thanks for the help

Nnobby45 · June 20, 2009, 11:21 PM

There are several important dimensions. The OAL is one of them. So is the case mouth diameter after crimping. For lead, .468 or .469 is good. For jacketed, .471 or .472.

The OAL can affect feeding from mags. if it's too long. Doesn't seem to be the problem in your case. Just to be sure, FULLY load up a mag. and see if they thumb out without a hitch.

You should be able to dianose the problem easily enough by using your bbl. as a gage, as has already been indicated. I personally don't like flush with bbl. hood because some may be a little high.

The rounds should "plop" right in slightly below flush, and fall right out. Some lead bullets may require a SLIGHT push (but no more than that) to go below flush. Jkt'd or plated should not.

The_Vigilante · June 21, 2009, 07:45 PM

From what I have heard and read SWC's and XD45's don't get along and there really isn't much you can do about it. Google XD.45 and SemiWad cutters for more info.

Huntbear · June 21, 2009, 08:37 PM

I had a similar problem when I changed to a lighter recoil spring on my Colt. The slide would not close completely on light target handloads, but worked fine on full power loads. I changed the spring back to the factory spring and it fixed the problem.

Russ5924 · June 22, 2009, 10:32 AM

There are some pistols that just don't like SWC. I would try something else

verti89 · June 22, 2009, 10:43 AM

Yea that is what it is sounding like...too bad I have about 900 more SWC bullets... guess I can either try to sell them locally or just hold onto them and eventually get a .45 revolver.

RidgwayCO · June 22, 2009, 04:23 PM

That right there might be the BEST rationalization I've ever heard for getting a new gun!

And remember, rationalization is more important than SEX. Don't believe me? When was the last time you went a week without a rationalization? (concept courtesy of the movie "The Big Chill").

Russ5924 · June 22, 2009, 06:07 PM

When buying new reloading components to try always buy the smallest amount. Then if they don't work you are not out much

verti89 · June 22, 2009, 06:41 PM

Yea typically that is something we try to do, but I just didn't even consider that the wadcutters would totally fail like that. Live and learn I guess.

rwilson452 · June 22, 2009, 08:25 PM

If your mechanically inclined you might try polishing the ramp on the 1911 as a last result. I would suggest for the XD stick with full power loads and round nose or round nose flat point 230 gr pills. especially if the XDs are quite new say under 1000 rounds down the tube.

June 20, 2009, 07:08 PM	#1
verti89 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Posts: 157	Mixed Results after todays reloads My dad and I jusgt finished testing our reloads. We loaded .45 and .40, the .40s went flawlessly. However our .45s had us scratching our heads. Since we are noobs I wanted to bring our issue to the pros. a couple weeks ago we finished our very first reloads. 4.7gr of Red Dot behind some 200 gr. hornady XTP HPs. Those shot flawlessly and had us riding high. today we loaded up some wadcutters, and came crashing back to earth. We used 4.0 gr of the same red dot behind our 200gr jacketed swc's. Our OAL was between 1.265 and 1.27 which according to our books was under the max oal of 1.275 for the .45. We went to fire them through our 3 guns (2 identical XDs and 1 Springfield 1911) and had issues. First in the XDs they would fire fine but were having trouble ejecting and/or loading the next cartridge. Sometimes the fired shot would not eject at all, sometimes it would eject fine but the next cartridge wouldn't chamber fully. It was almost every single shot that was having issues when fired through each of the Xds. The 1911 was a bit more forgiving but probably 3 total times per mag there were issues which is still way too high for any sort of dependability. On a side not the cases we did fire had a black streak on them that I think was due to them being light loads and not completely sealing off. Our first thought was that the cartridges were too long so we went back to the table to set them down a bit further. We got them down to about 1.228 OAL which was almost identical to the factory rounds. These still had problems every time thru the Xds but were much better in the 1911 with it only failing once in 3 mags. We decided to test a bit more. We loaded them with the previously loaded HPs that were firing fine. The result was that if the HP was fird before the new wadcutters it would have the same issues ejecting and/or chambering the next round. If the Hps were loaded after the wadcutters again they would not chamber correctly. But if we loaded a magazine with only the HPs it worked flawlessly. So basically we are baffled because it seems that any combination of ammo involving the new wadcutters had serious issues. The two things that we thought it might be ended up not being realistic. The length thing was accounted for and made to match the factory ammo in OAL. If it were a pressure issue due to the light load it seems that they would still chamber fine following one of the HPs. On a side note the brass was an assortment and the primers used were CCI. Please offer any advice you might have or if you need any more info I will do my best to answer it thanks.

June 20, 2009, 08:47 PM	#4
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	Here you go rwilson, good picture. __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

June 21, 2009, 07:45 PM	#8
The_Vigilante Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2008 Location: Far West Texas Posts: 200	Mixed Results after todays reloads From what I have heard and read SWC's and XD45's don't get along and there really isn't much you can do about it. Google XD.45 and SemiWad cutters for more info. __________________ The_Vigilante Keeping the streets safe! A man can never own enough guns!

June 22, 2009, 10:32 AM	#10
Russ5924 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Posts: 1,874	There are some pistols that just don't like SWC. I would try something else __________________ Russ5924

June 22, 2009, 06:07 PM	#13
Russ5924 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Posts: 1,874	When buying new reloading components to try always buy the smallest amount. Then if they don't work you are not out much __________________ Russ5924

June 20, 2009, 08:42 PM	#3
verti89 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Posts: 157	K I will try that, though I have to admit as of yet I cannot figure out how to get my barrel completely out of my 1911. I have only disassembled it twice for cleaning though. It would be really unfortunate if its just the gun doesnt like the SWC bullets because we have about 900 more of them....

June 20, 2009, 08:53 PM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	It didn't come with instructions? Go to "disassembly" in the left menu at: http://www.m1911.org/m1911dt.htm Rounds must chamber freely. As illustrated the case head should fetch up flush with or slightly below the barrel hood when loading semiwadcutters. Do you taper crimp? As a separate step? How about the ones you seated deeper, did that scrape up a ring of lead at the case mouth? Foreign pistols are not really built for semiwadcutters. If they feed, great, but you cannot count on it. You can probably straighten out your 1911 but the XD may not cooperate.

June 20, 2009, 09:57 PM	#6
verti89 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Posts: 157	We are using the Lee dies and the bullet seating die does a taper crimp, but we do not do it as an additional step. When we seated them further there was no ring of lead around the outside of the case, so it wasnt shaving it. As far as instructions to remove the barrel. I know how to take the slide and spring off per the included instructions and can then get the brush at least all the way thru the barrel. But I cannot seem to get the barrel out completely on its own. I will check that site out though thanks. Just checked out that site...im a moron the bushing comes off I guess i read to fast when I read the instructions...anyways thanks for the help

June 20, 2009, 11:21 PM	#7
Nnobby45 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2004 Posts: 3,150	There are several important dimensions. The OAL is one of them. So is the case mouth diameter after crimping. For lead, .468 or .469 is good. For jacketed, .471 or .472. The OAL can affect feeding from mags. if it's too long. Doesn't seem to be the problem in your case. Just to be sure, FULLY load up a mag. and see if they thumb out without a hitch. You should be able to dianose the problem easily enough by using your bbl. as a gage, as has already been indicated. I personally don't like flush with bbl. hood because some may be a little high. The rounds should "plop" right in slightly below flush, and fall right out. Some lead bullets may require a SLIGHT push (but no more than that) to go below flush. Jkt'd or plated should not.

June 21, 2009, 08:37 PM	#9
Huntbear Junior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Posts: 13	I had a similar problem when I changed to a lighter recoil spring on my Colt. The slide would not close completely on light target handloads, but worked fine on full power loads. I changed the spring back to the factory spring and it fixed the problem.

June 22, 2009, 10:43 AM	#11
verti89 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Posts: 157	Yea that is what it is sounding like...too bad I have about 900 more SWC bullets... guess I can either try to sell them locally or just hold onto them and eventually get a .45 revolver.

June 22, 2009, 04:23 PM	#12
RidgwayCO Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2008 Location: Western Colorado Posts: 244	That right there might be the BEST rationalization I've ever heard for getting a new gun! And remember, rationalization is more important than SEX. Don't believe me? When was the last time you went a week without a rationalization? (concept courtesy of the movie "The Big Chill").

June 22, 2009, 06:41 PM	#14
verti89 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Posts: 157	Yea typically that is something we try to do, but I just didn't even consider that the wadcutters would totally fail like that. Live and learn I guess.

June 22, 2009, 08:25 PM	#15
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	If your mechanically inclined you might try polishing the ramp on the 1911 as a last result. I would suggest for the XD stick with full power loads and round nose or round nose flat point 230 gr pills. especially if the XDs are quite new say under 1000 rounds down the tube. __________________ USNRET '61-'81