Remington New brass?

alwayspackin1 · August 30, 2010, 01:03 PM

I have typically used Winchester brass when I am buying new unfired brass, but i was looking into buying Remington brass this time around, due to better availability.

I have always had good results from Winchester, but i was going to get the general consensus on Remy brass before i ordered it.

thanks in advance for any advice

DiscoRacing · August 30, 2010, 01:04 PM

I use alot of RP in .223... with just as good of results as with win.

demigod · August 30, 2010, 01:16 PM

R-P .223 brass is one of my favorites. I love finding once fired Rem brass at the range.

sc928porsche · August 30, 2010, 01:31 PM

I dont do benchrest compettition, so the wihchester, remington and star work well for me.

FrankenMauser · August 30, 2010, 01:58 PM

My personal preference between the two waivers, due to quality control changes (comes and goes, as the years pass). Right now, I would definitely put Remington above Winchester. All the recent Winchester brass I have bought (last 3 years), looked like it was made by a bicycle repairman, using rocks and a wooden mallet to form it, in a thatch hut, on an Indonesian island, and smuggled to the U.S. in a shipping container full of gravel and anvils. (And that's not addressing horribly unbalanced case wall thicknesses, and case mouths that can be lop-sided by more than 0.050"!)

Right now, Remington is definitely the better brass.

Often, it's a toss up for out-of-the-box quality. However, Remington brass has always lasted longer for me than Winchester (any of the stamps, W-W, Super-X, etc), and the current quality issues push Winchester below S&B and PMC in my list of preferred head stamps (and I hate PMC's off-center and under-sized flash holes - but they know how to keep case wall thickness even, and case mouths as square as is expected).

**Unclenick** · August 30, 2010, 02:12 PM

Remington is outsourcing brass and bullets overseas in many instances, so the quality seems to have become catch as catch can. I don't know if Winchester is doing the same, but the last new brass I bought of theirs (.30-06, last year) was on par with past brass.

Assuming all brass is made to the maker's drawings, Winchester pistol brass typically has thicker necks and lasts for more reloadings. In .45 ACP, for example, I still won't even pick up free R-P brass at the range, as the thin mouths case-harden so fast and become springy enough to cease to resize adequately in my equipment, and then they can't hold onto a bullet. That's tolerable loading singly, as you can stop and check the size after resizing, and pitch out offenders then, but in a progressive press it stops the action, so I just don't even want to put them in the machine.

Rifle brass is another matter. There, Winchester is usually lighter and has more case capacity, so you may need to reduce loads developed in Winchester for use in Remington. Remington tends to be close to military spec brass in .30-06 and is inbetween Winchester and Military brass in .308. In .223, Winchester, Remington, and military brass is all pretty close, so it doesn't seem to matter there. I came to prefer Remington for .30-06 for the Garand when I couldn't get Lake City because it let me use the loads I developed in Lake City brass. In the .30-06 bolt guns I favor Winchester for its little bit of extra capacity (almost a grain and a half extra water capacity) and about the same for .308, which is good for long range.

In general, because of the .308 situation, I reduce Winchester brass rifle loads by about 5% and work back up in other brands of cases.

dahermit · August 30, 2010, 03:44 PM

Back in the 60's, Winchester .44 spl. brass had issues with inconsistent thickness of the case rims. In the 2000's, Winchester still has issues with inconsistent thickness of case rims.

Sevens · August 31, 2010, 09:11 AM

If we are talking rifle brass, I have no worthwhile opinion.

If the component brass you buy is DIFFERENT than the brass you get from new factory ammo, I also have nothing to help.

If we are going on the quality of the brass in pistol/handguns rounds from factory ammo then Winchester kicks the ever loving crap out of Remington.

Remington factory pistol brass is the thinnest I can find by any manufacturer in the case mouth. It doesn't seem to be bad brass and it doesn't seem to have a shorter life than the others, but what I have found is that you can't get the same amount of came mouth tension with jacketed bullets on the slim side when you use R-P stamped pistol brass. Seems to be a tad worse with their nickel plated pistol brass.

In semi-auto handguns, this is crucial because poor case mouth tension can lead to unintended bullet setback when the round is violently jacked in to the chamber.

Outside of A-Merc, R-P is by far my least favorite pistol brass because of this issue. I'd rather have Magtech/CBC, S&B, Federal, Fiocchi, or anything else that regularly makes folks' "unwanted" lists.

I tend to use my R-P pistol brass for cast lead bullet loads... where I know the bullet is a thousandth bigger, giving me a hedge against the weak case mouth tension.

demigod · August 31, 2010, 09:31 AM

Interesting comments on the R-P pistol brass. I've never had any problems using it in 45acp.

FC (Federal) brass (specifically in 9mm) is the only pistol brass I try to dump straight into the recycler. Thin case mouth walls and poor case mouth tension in the past is why I still can that brass. 9mm is so easy to get that you can be picky about what you decide to keep.

**Unclenick** · August 31, 2010, 09:43 AM

Interesting that what you describe for Federal is exactly my experience with Remington in .45 ACP. I won't even load lead bullets into Remington because the lubrication makes it possible to push the bullets into the case with my thumb. I first noticed this issue using a Lyman carbide die I got back in the early 80's, IIRC. I would get something like two or three load cycles before it became an issue. Current die dimensions may have tightened a bit, but I haven't bothered to try.

I've never noticed an issue with Federal .45 ACP, at least not for target loads. The stuff is soft enough that it never seems to get springy. I don't run 9 mm, so I can't comment on that.

Jimmy10mm · August 31, 2010, 09:51 AM

I was on Midway or maybe it was Cabella's website the other day looking at 10mm brass. Starline was a lot cheaper than Winchester. Is Starline of a good quality ? Is it USA made ?

Edit; Just went to the Starline website and I see they are made in Missouri.

flyguy958 · August 31, 2010, 10:18 AM

I have had no issues with Starline brass. Great customer service and a very good product. Made in the states too.

CowTowner · August 31, 2010, 10:58 AM

I'll throw a thumbs up for Starline. It never has disappointed me for either my 10mm or my 41 Mag loads.

Xfire68 · August 31, 2010, 11:06 AM

Quote:

I have typically used Winchester brass when I am buying new unfired brass, but i was looking into buying Remington brass this time around, due to better availability.

I have always had good results from Winchester, but i was going to get the general consensus on Remy brass before i ordered it.

thanks in advance for any advice

What caliber? What are you using it for? Hunting, Target?

demigod · August 31, 2010, 12:42 PM

Quote:

I won't even load lead bullets into Remington because the lubrication makes it possible to push the bullets into the case with my thumb

Ah! I'm only using jacketed/plated bullets. My FC 9mm brass issue was partially due to a weird resizing die. FC was the only brass that I could push bullets back with my fingers.

I replaced the resizing die and all flavors of brass would hold a bullet, but I still am leary of FC in 9mm.

Sevens · August 31, 2010, 04:49 PM

Hey demigod, if you look at all the current FC headstamped brass, you'll find that it's pretty much exactly the same as anything marked "CCI", "Speer" or "Blazer." ATK has them all being built by the same equipment (my assumption, anyway). You can see the similarity in the case head, which seems to be ever so slightly concave... it's extruded brass, so I've read.

The point I'm trying to make it... your FC embargo may continue, but I'll bet you can make a distinction at the bench between the old FC and the current FC, which had a small dot on either side of the "FC" on the case head.

And if you don't make a distinction, you should probably scrap all your new brass that says, "CCI", "Speer" or "Blazer" on it, too.

The way I can tell I've got a piece of R-P pistol brass on my press? Simple -- nothing I have in my supply feels the same on the mouth flaring stage. R-P offers the least resistance, by far, and it's easily felt at the press handle.

TXGunNut · August 31, 2010, 09:37 PM

Big fan of RP brass but in recent years have been sorting it by weight and trimming new brass after the first sizing. Deburring the flash hole takes time as well. Love the Starline brass for my BPCR stuff and .45 Colt. Have a few WW cases that I use for 35 Rem and can't see any difference between them and the loads using RP cases. Kinda curious about Lapua, may try them when I need more 30-06 brass.
I shoot component and factory loaded RP rifle brass, Sevens. Haven't noticed a difference.
Unclenick, just checked a couple of 100 ct bags of RP brass from Cabelas. Only thing interesting is the text stating that the contents were packaged by Black Hills Shooters' Supply. Any idea which cases they're outsourcing?

alwayspackin1 · August 31, 2010, 10:43 PM

Sorry Xfire...

should have been more specific.

I am speaking mostly in terms of .223 rifle brass, but i have also bought some Winchester 38spl and 9mm brass.

demigod · September 1, 2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Hey demigod, if you look at all the current FC headstamped brass, you'll find that it's pretty much exactly the same as anything marked "CCI", "Speer" or "Blazer." ATK has them all being built by the same equipment (my assumption, anyway). You can see the similarity in the case head, which seems to be ever so slightly concave... it's extruded brass, so I've read.

Yeah. The brass I have is from old stock of freezer bags in my garage. I haven't messed with any current production ATK FC 9mm brass.

Blacklabelz · September 4, 2010, 12:34 PM

I've used both new Win and Rem brass in .45, .40, .38, and .223.

I can't tell the difference. They are both great.

wncchester · September 4, 2010, 01:21 PM

"I've used both new Win and Rem brass...I can't tell the difference. They are both great."

Add Federal and I agree. There seems to be as much difference between lots of the same brand as between brands. At there worst, they are all plenty good for me. And I ain't real easy to please.

Fed is a bit softer and expands the primer pockets faster in high intensity loads but if it's loaded "normally" it lasts longer than others for me.

August 30, 2010, 01:03 PM	#1
alwayspackin1 Member Join Date: April 27, 2009 Location: Southeast Arkansas Posts: 99	Remington New brass? I have typically used Winchester brass when I am buying new unfired brass, but i was looking into buying Remington brass this time around, due to better availability. I have always had good results from Winchester, but i was going to get the general consensus on Remy brass before i ordered it. thanks in advance for any advice __________________ *The glass is not half full, nor is it half empty. You simply have twice as much glass as you need.01/01/09*

August 30, 2010, 01:04 PM	#2
DiscoRacing Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: milton, wv Posts: 3,640	I use alot of RP in .223... with just as good of results as with win. __________________ Desert Eagle Alliance Group Launcher Extraordinaire ______ ----Get Busy Live'n.....Or....Get Busy Die'n......Red -------They call me Dr. Bob,,,, I have a PhD in S&W

August 30, 2010, 01:31 PM	#4
sc928porsche Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Location: now living in alabama Posts: 2,433	I dont do benchrest compettition, so the wihchester, remington and star work well for me. __________________ No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.

August 30, 2010, 01:58 PM	#5
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	My personal preference between the two waivers, due to quality control changes (comes and goes, as the years pass). Right now, I would definitely put Remington above Winchester. All the recent Winchester brass I have bought (last 3 years), looked like it was made by a bicycle repairman, using rocks and a wooden mallet to form it, in a thatch hut, on an Indonesian island, and smuggled to the U.S. in a shipping container full of gravel and anvils. (And that's not addressing horribly unbalanced case wall thicknesses, and case mouths that can be lop-sided by more than 0.050"!) Right now, Remington is definitely the better brass. Often, it's a toss up for out-of-the-box quality. However, Remington brass has always lasted longer for me than Winchester (any of the stamps, W-W, Super-X, etc), and the current quality issues push Winchester below S&B and PMC in my list of preferred head stamps (and I hate PMC's off-center and under-sized flash holes - but they know how to keep case wall thickness even, and case mouths as square as is expected). __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

August 30, 2010, 02:12 PM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Remington is outsourcing brass and bullets overseas in many instances, so the quality seems to have become catch as catch can. I don't know if Winchester is doing the same, but the last new brass I bought of theirs (.30-06, last year) was on par with past brass. Assuming all brass is made to the maker's drawings, Winchester pistol brass typically has thicker necks and lasts for more reloadings. In .45 ACP, for example, I still won't even pick up free R-P brass at the range, as the thin mouths case-harden so fast and become springy enough to cease to resize adequately in my equipment, and then they can't hold onto a bullet. That's tolerable loading singly, as you can stop and check the size after resizing, and pitch out offenders then, but in a progressive press it stops the action, so I just don't even want to put them in the machine. Rifle brass is another matter. There, Winchester is usually lighter and has more case capacity, so you may need to reduce loads developed in Winchester for use in Remington. Remington tends to be close to military spec brass in .30-06 and is inbetween Winchester and Military brass in .308. In .223, Winchester, Remington, and military brass is all pretty close, so it doesn't seem to matter there. I came to prefer Remington for .30-06 for the Garand when I couldn't get Lake City because it let me use the loads I developed in Lake City brass. In the .30-06 bolt guns I favor Winchester for its little bit of extra capacity (almost a grain and a half extra water capacity) and about the same for .308, which is good for long range. In general, because of the .308 situation, I reduce Winchester brass rifle loads by about 5% and work back up in other brands of cases. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

August 30, 2010, 01:16 PM	#3
demigod Junior member Join Date: March 13, 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 1,129	R-P .223 brass is one of my favorites. I love finding once fired Rem brass at the range.

August 30, 2010, 03:44 PM	#7
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	Back in the 60's, Winchester .44 spl. brass had issues with inconsistent thickness of the case rims. In the 2000's, Winchester still has issues with inconsistent thickness of case rims.

August 31, 2010, 09:11 AM	#8
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	If we are talking rifle brass, I have no worthwhile opinion. If the component brass you buy is DIFFERENT than the brass you get from new factory ammo, I also have nothing to help. If we are going on the quality of the brass in pistol/handguns rounds from factory ammo then Winchester kicks the ever loving crap out of Remington. Remington factory pistol brass is the thinnest I can find by any manufacturer in the case mouth. It doesn't seem to be bad brass and it doesn't seem to have a shorter life than the others, but what I have found is that you can't get the same amount of came mouth tension with jacketed bullets on the slim side when you use R-P stamped pistol brass. Seems to be a tad worse with their nickel plated pistol brass. In semi-auto handguns, this is crucial because poor case mouth tension can lead to unintended bullet setback when the round is violently jacked in to the chamber. Outside of A-Merc, R-P is by far my least favorite pistol brass because of this issue. I'd rather have Magtech/CBC, S&B, Federal, Fiocchi, or anything else that regularly makes folks' "unwanted" lists. I tend to use my R-P pistol brass for cast lead bullet loads... where I know the bullet is a thousandth bigger, giving me a hedge against the weak case mouth tension. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 31, 2010, 09:31 AM	#9
demigod Junior member Join Date: March 13, 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 1,129	Interesting comments on the R-P pistol brass. I've never had any problems using it in 45acp. FC (Federal) brass (specifically in 9mm) is the only pistol brass I try to dump straight into the recycler. Thin case mouth walls and poor case mouth tension in the past is why I still can that brass. 9mm is so easy to get that you can be picky about what you decide to keep.

August 31, 2010, 09:43 AM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Interesting that what you describe for Federal is exactly my experience with Remington in .45 ACP. I won't even load lead bullets into Remington because the lubrication makes it possible to push the bullets into the case with my thumb. I first noticed this issue using a Lyman carbide die I got back in the early 80's, IIRC. I would get something like two or three load cycles before it became an issue. Current die dimensions may have tightened a bit, but I haven't bothered to try. I've never noticed an issue with Federal .45 ACP, at least not for target loads. The stuff is soft enough that it never seems to get springy. I don't run 9 mm, so I can't comment on that. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

August 31, 2010, 09:51 AM	#11
Jimmy10mm Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2010 Location: Greenacres, FL Posts: 933	I was on Midway or maybe it was Cabella's website the other day looking at 10mm brass. Starline was a lot cheaper than Winchester. Is Starline of a good quality ? Is it USA made ? Edit; Just went to the Starline website and I see they are made in Missouri. Last edited by Jimmy10mm; August 31, 2010 at 09:55 AM. Reason: more info

August 31, 2010, 10:18 AM	#12
flyguy958 Senior Member Join Date: June 27, 2009 Location: SC Posts: 200	I have had no issues with Starline brass. Great customer service and a very good product. Made in the states too.

August 31, 2010, 10:58 AM	#13
CowTowner Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2007 Location: Cowtown of course! Posts: 1,747	I'll throw a thumbs up for Starline. It never has disappointed me for either my 10mm or my 41 Mag loads. __________________ NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, Home Firearms Safety, Pistol and Rifle Instructor *“Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life......”* President John F. Kennedy

August 31, 2010, 04:49 PM	#16
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Hey demigod, if you look at all the current FC headstamped brass, you'll find that it's pretty much exactly the same as anything marked "CCI", "Speer" or "Blazer." ATK has them all being built by the same equipment (my assumption, anyway). You can see the similarity in the case head, which seems to be ever so slightly concave... it's extruded brass, so I've read. The point I'm trying to make it... your FC embargo may continue, but I'll bet you can make a distinction at the bench between the old FC and the current FC, which had a small dot on either side of the "FC" on the case head. And if you don't make a distinction, you should probably scrap all your new brass that says, "CCI", "Speer" or "Blazer" on it, too. The way I can tell I've got a piece of R-P pistol brass on my press? Simple -- nothing I have in my supply feels the same on the mouth flaring stage. R-P offers the least resistance, by far, and it's easily felt at the press handle. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 31, 2010, 09:37 PM	#17
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	Big fan of RP brass but in recent years have been sorting it by weight and trimming new brass after the first sizing. Deburring the flash hole takes time as well. Love the Starline brass for my BPCR stuff and .45 Colt. Have a few WW cases that I use for 35 Rem and can't see any difference between them and the loads using RP cases. Kinda curious about Lapua, may try them when I need more 30-06 brass. I shoot component and factory loaded RP rifle brass, Sevens. Haven't noticed a difference. Unclenick, just checked a couple of 100 ct bags of RP brass from Cabelas. Only thing interesting is the text stating that the contents were packaged by Black Hills Shooters' Supply. Any idea which cases they're outsourcing? __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

August 31, 2010, 10:43 PM	#18
alwayspackin1 Member Join Date: April 27, 2009 Location: Southeast Arkansas Posts: 99	Sorry Xfire... should have been more specific. I am speaking mostly in terms of .223 rifle brass, but i have also bought some Winchester 38spl and 9mm brass. __________________ *The glass is not half full, nor is it half empty. You simply have twice as much glass as you need.01/01/09*

September 4, 2010, 12:34 PM	#20
Blacklabelz Junior Member Join Date: September 16, 2008 Posts: 12	I've used both new Win and Rem brass in .45, .40, .38, and .223. I can't tell the difference. They are both great.

September 4, 2010, 01:21 PM	#21
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"I've used both new Win and Rem brass...I can't tell the difference. They are both great." Add Federal and I agree. There seems to be as much difference between lots of the same brand as between brands. At there worst, they are all plenty good for me. And I ain't real easy to please. Fed is a bit softer and expands the primer pockets faster in high intensity loads but if it's loaded "normally" it lasts longer than others for me.