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August 6, 2008, 07:23 AM | #1 |
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Single or Two Stage Trigger?
I recently purchased a DPMS AR10 in .260 cal.. I'm not impressed with the heavy and rough factory trigger. This is suppose to be a "long range" rifle but the trigger is any thing but a "long range" trigger. I want to replace it with an adjustable smooth, crisp trigger with no creep. The factory recommended the JP single stage LR-39 or the two stage TR-TS.
My question is, What's the difference between a single stage and a two stage trigger? Which would better suit my needs? |
August 6, 2008, 01:58 PM | #2 |
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A single stage trigger will feel like the trigger on any rifle: as you pull the trigger there will be no slack or creep, and when you squeeze the trigger a fraction of an inch the gun will fire. Some single-stage triggers are set at a higher pull weight to prevent accidental discharges, some as high as 6 lbs.
A two-stage trigger has a take-up or slack portion against mild spring resistance before you feel contact with the trigger mechanism. Once you feel contact, the pull weight is only 3-1/2 lbs and a small additional squeeze will fire the gun. Which one is better? I'm not sure. I shoot a Rock River Arms National Match A4 configuration AR15 (NM-A4) with a two-stage target trigger (supposedly RRA makes one of the best), and I like it a lot. I shoot with one guy who has a Jard single-stage trigger in his AR, and he says he likes it but always seems to be complaining about it. I fired his AR and it would take some getting used to after shooting a two-stage trigger as long as I have. You could talk to DPMS about having the trigger adjusted, or see a gunsmith. An aftermarket two-stage trigger will usually drop in, if you decide to go that route. Aftermarket triggers are available from Midway and brownells.
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August 6, 2008, 02:09 PM | #3 |
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The stages refer to ranges of the pull length of the trigger stroke. The resistance of a two stage varies w/ each stage. For instance it might be 4lbs for 3/4 of the length of the trigger pull and then 2lbs for the remainder. There should to be a distinct point where the pull weight transitions between the two.
Shooters will typically settle, take-up the first stage, and then apply gradually increasing pressure to the second until it breaks. But you'll encounter different definitions. Some people regard any take-up as a first stage, but to me that's just take-up. For a trigger to be two-stage, there needs to be some resistance in the first stage. Also, you can often adjust a two-stage to be come a one stage. The resistance should be constant throughout a one stage trigger pull, or at least not change abruptly. I've shot longer ranges with both a one and two stage and prefer the two stage, though I suspect that the benefit is largely psychological. |
August 6, 2008, 04:32 PM | #4 |
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trigger
Sir;
I, too, like two stage. On all of my personal DGRs (Mausers) I like two stage - so do combat soldiers! Harry B. |
August 7, 2008, 06:39 PM | #5 |
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I have three AR's, two with DCM two stage trigger lowers, and one with the standard single stage. the two stage trigger makes a big difference to me on the bench, but offhand shooting seems to be about the same.
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August 7, 2008, 08:06 PM | #6 |
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Thanks for the help.
Great information. Looks like a two stage may be the way I should go.
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August 8, 2008, 12:16 AM | #7 |
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http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store...3&cat=0&page=2
Once you go two-stage you'll never go back!
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August 8, 2008, 09:16 AM | #8 |
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Two-stage triggers were originally used in bolt action military rifles to allow a short, light second stage pull for accuracy while retaining the long pull considered necessary for safety and fire control in a military environment.
Since most high-power target shooting was promoted by the military, match rifles retained the two-stage "military" trigger, as did the first civilian sporting bolt actions. Later, sporting rifle manufacturers developed single stage triggers, although they often kept the two-stage for their match rifles. Jim |
August 8, 2008, 09:31 AM | #9 |
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I much prefer two-stage triggers on any firearm that will accomodate them.
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August 8, 2008, 08:19 PM | #10 |
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I would guess to say that an AR type of 2 stage trigger would be like the one on my Hawken black powder rifle in that you use the rear trigger to "get ready" to shoot and then just a touch on the front trigger actually shoots. Of course there is just a single trigger doing both? I have found it makes that dammed thing really accurate at leasst to 100 yds.
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August 8, 2008, 11:02 PM | #11 |
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I guess I'm the odd ball because I like single stage triggers especially on a target rifle. My Jewell is set in ounces, not pounds. No creep, no free play, no over travel.
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August 11, 2008, 09:21 AM | #12 |
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Add me to the list of those preferring a single-stage trigger. I use the JP trigger/hammer combo on my Bushy Shorty. Trigger pulls very much like the Timney triggers on my 700s. I don't like "takeup" in a trigger pull on a rifle. Trigger breaks @ around 3#, with no discernable creep or overtravel.
What combat soldiers prefer is largely irrelevant to the type of shooting that I do. |
August 11, 2008, 09:48 AM | #13 |
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Here is the Rock River Arms two-stage trigger for $88 shipped.
http://ar15sa.fatcow.com/store/miscparts.html Get it. You will never want to go back to a single stage trigger. |
August 12, 2008, 11:33 AM | #14 |
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Creature: Maybe I'm missing the obvious, but I don't see the Rock River brand name mentioned on that two-stage trigger.
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August 12, 2008, 01:28 PM | #15 |
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Interesting...that link no longer shows it as a Rock River Arms two-stage trigger.
So I called. It is, in fact, a genuine Rock River Arms 2-stage trigger. And the example that I purchased is a joy to shoot with. |
August 12, 2008, 01:43 PM | #16 |
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Thanks for the info. I'm contemplating a build, starting with a Stag lower. Really like my JP trigger/hammer combo, but, @ $88, that RRA sounds pretty good. I've bookmarked the vendor.
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August 12, 2008, 04:30 PM | #17 |
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The RRA two-stage that came w/ my NM A2 wasn't what I regard as a true two-stage. It had a long take-up to a single stage. Now RRA does specify that these are 'pre-adjusted', but I didn't see any convenient means of re-adjusting it.
Does the aftermarket unit have an adjustable first stage? The Geisselle, for instance, is a true two-stage. Both stages are adjustable, and can alternate weights. |
August 12, 2008, 05:45 PM | #18 |
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The RRA two-stage is definitely a two stage. A two-stage trigger doesn't need to be adjustable to be considered a two-stage trigger. It simply makes it an adjustable two-stage trigger!
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August 12, 2008, 08:36 PM | #19 |
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I agree that the adjustment isn't what defines the trigger, but mine has almost no resistance in the first 'stage' - e.g. it's difficult to get a reading when using a pull weight scale.
If that's a stage then long take-up could be considered a stage as well. |
August 12, 2008, 09:04 PM | #20 |
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I think a single stage trigger would be out of place on an AR. I have the Rock River 2 stage on my AR, it's not terribly light, but is super clean & crisp. I like that.
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August 13, 2008, 07:50 AM | #21 | |
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Quote:
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August 13, 2008, 06:16 PM | #22 | |
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Quote:
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August 14, 2008, 08:07 AM | #23 |
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I've been shooting military style rifles most of my life and that's what I'm used to. AR's, M1A's, MN, 91/93's, M1's, all have 2 stage. It's just ingrained in me to expect a 2 stage type pull when I pick one up.
Geez if I put a single stage on my AR I'd prolly ND it when trying to take up the slack! Single stage triggers prolly work fine in AR's. Truth is I've never shot a mil arm with a single stage trigger. I could prolly get used to it but my subconscious wouldnt be expecting it if it happened to be a stressful situation. If I tried one and liked it, I'd prolly have to change all my 2 stage's for singles. Now bolts and ss rifles are a different story, I expect them to be single stage. |
August 16, 2008, 09:27 AM | #24 |
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Thanks for the clarification, Edward. FWIW, my AR's not a "military rifle."
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