Personal defense flashlights?

fyrestarter · August 27, 2004, 04:03 PM

I was thinking of buying a new flashlight to replace my mini maglight, and I was looking at the LED models and such, but there's so damn many of them. The brand to buy seems to be Surefire, but like anything, a much touted brand is usually overrated and overpriced ($150 for a flashlight is a bit much). But I don't mind spending the money if it's really worth it.

For strictly a defense application, you know, something to stuff into the pocket on a cold winter's night along with my Colt Mustang, I'd like something that's at least 4" long, has some considerable heft to it, but not too heavy, uses regular batteries, none of that recharageble stuff, and has the on-switch located at the butt (the only thing I hated about the maglight was the twist-on feature). And I'm looking for bright -- searing gas pain bright. Are the LED models brighter and more reliable?

Seems like a lot of thought to put into something as pedestrian as a flashlight, but I figure any advantage is worth it. Any suggestions?

Erich · August 27, 2004, 04:17 PM

LED models are not as bright as the xenon bulb models. They just run a whole lot longer. You might want to go to candlepower forums and check it out.

(Edited: you know, I have no idea if there are new LED lights that are brighter than the xenon bulb models. I should say that in my limited experience with these lights, the LED models are not as bright - but I'm by no means an expert.)

JerryM · August 27, 2004, 06:55 PM

I also recommend Candlepower forums.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubb...reads.php?Cat=

I don't think you will find a light with all your requirements. I would recommend either the Pelican M6 Lithium (It is available in both xenon and LED) or the Streamlight TL2.

Here is a site for reviews.
http://flashlightreviews.home.att.ne...s_by_mfgrs.htm

http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/ledleft.htm

http://flashlightreviews.home.att.net/index1.html

There are a lot of lights available, and I think that you will end up with a light that uses lithium C123 batteries. They are expensive in Walmart, but are available for $1.00 each on the web.

Jerry

VaughnT · August 27, 2004, 10:09 PM

I have the Surefire 6P, w/ xenon bulb, and the Pelican M6 LED. Of the two, I use the Pelican far more often because the batteries last longer and the light is more than enough to pre-trip a vehicle or see into a dark corner. The tailcap is a bit weak in the design department, but it's still workable.

The Surefire is a great light, but the hype really gets to me. I can't think of anything I'd change about the light, though, and that's a good thing. Size is great for pocket carry, and they sure are bright!

I did customize the Pelican by adding a Surefire constant-on tailcap switch, and both lights have the Suarez finger ring modification which I find beats the lanyard hands-down.

You won't be sorry with either light, though if you want retina-burning capabilities, you really should look into the ultrabright Surefires.

fyrestarter · August 27, 2004, 11:25 PM

I can't believe there's a forum dedicated to discussing flashlights.

Then again, there's apparently a store solely for the purpose of selling ink cartridges.....

Thanks, BTW...

JerryM · August 28, 2004, 03:23 PM

fyrestarter,

I was also surprised at that. However, after being a member there, and spending more than I would admit for flashlights, I have to admit that flashlights are more interesting than one would think. Much more than printer ink.

Folks laugh at me and my flashlights, but when the lights go out it is another story.
My pastor was making fun of me, and I asked him for his car keys after a Sun night service when it was dark. He asked my why, and I told him that I was going to throw his and my keys out into the dark, and maybe into the dumster and let's see who would find his keys before daylight.

He admitted that there was "something about flashlights."

I have found that the small 1 AAA LED lights are very useful. I carry one in my pants pocket with my "red knife" and comb. I am surprised at how often I need a little light to look into some corner.
The Dorsey 1 AAA at Walmart is handy and only costs $6.00. I prefer the ARC AAA as it is smaller, and nicer, but it will run about $35.00 with postage. If you start frequenting that CPF site you will sooner or later decide that it is not too much money for a small light.

When you really get into it, when your wife is gone, you can go into the dark garage and shine your lights and say "WOW." When she gets home try to show her how bright the lights are, and of course she will think you are now crazy. Probably she is right, but then I can't test my handguns in the dark garage - without night sights and a flashlight. Even then it is somewhat risky.

Go to CPF and see if you don't "like light rather than darkness."

In a more serious vein, I believe that a bright light can be a help in a dark parking lot. Thugs don't like light, and in addition when the light, such as the PM6 is shined into their eyes they are temporarily blinded. That gives some time for what comes next, including flight, CS, or ?

Jerry

trapshooter · August 31, 2004, 06:12 PM

I'm real happy with my Surefire L4. But it takes the pricey batteries. (Which will last ten years in the box from DOM, they say). Works good. Hurts the eyes. (I had to see). Carried it all over Iraq, everywhere I went. I discovered that the maglight lens covers for the mini-maglight will work, but it gets hot, so extended use of the covers and color lenses isn't advised, but I used both red and blue at different times. You have to cut the rubber lens holder for the MM down by 50%, too, but they're cheap (relatively), and necessity is the mother of ......

No provision for attaching this model to a weapon, which may be desired later. It does have the butt-switch. I paid 130, list is 160.

JerryM · August 31, 2004, 06:49 PM

Trapshooter,

Are you buying your batteries from Surefire? I think they run about 12/$15. Battertstation has them for 1.25 and sometimes BOTACH has them for less than a dollar.

http://www.batterystation.com/index.html

http://www.botachtactical.com/
Battery station also has some good buys on Pelican M6 light both Xenon and Led. The best prices are for Candlepower Forus members.

Jerry

trapshooter · September 1, 2004, 07:19 AM

JerryM;

Actually, I'm still on the first box of batteries I bought with the light last January, but thanks for the info. This light should last a long time. There are lots of good PDL's out now, though, and fyrestarter will be able to find one that suits easily.

My own feeling is that I should have gotten a more versatile model (multi-colored LED, weapons-capable), but what the heck. It did what I wanted. Live and learn.

WESHOOT2 · September 4, 2004, 06:26 AM

I am very satisfied with my two Streamlight products; recommend.

Don Gwinn · September 6, 2004, 01:15 PM

I like my Streamlight too (Stinger XT--the aluminum body) but it's rechargeable. I don't really see the disadvantage in that, but to each his own. I do like the fact that it has "just enough" heft to be an improvised billy--it's about 6-8" long and made of aluminum.

I went through a phase where I would shine my lights through neighbors' dark windows or against their houses at night, from my backyard. I wasn't peeping, I just wondered what they thought of this sudden patch of more or less bright light from nowhere.

Quartus · September 6, 2004, 04:31 PM

Quote:

I wasn't peeping,

Uh huh. Okay...

Sure Don. We know you're one of the good guys.

Uh huh...

Schuey2002 · September 8, 2004, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Batterytstation has them for $1.25..

They also have BatteryStation brand (which seem to be just as good as SF batts), for a buck each. Clicky on the linky.

http://www.batterystation.com/cpf.htm

sageowl · October 19, 2004, 03:07 AM

If you're going to be shooting with it, get a Xenon light with lithium batteries. LEDs are great for lighting up an area if that's what you're looking for, I personally dont care for any of the ones I've used for force-option / shooting situations.

Just purchased a SureFire C2 Centurion (2x123A, 65 lumen) with optional P61 lamp (120 lumen). While I was convinced I would be discarding the 65 lumen head, I've actually not had a problem with it. Haven't gone out and compared distance of illumination yet but it did fine at the magical 7 yard mark. My only complaints about this light are its diameter (little bigger than I'd like) and that the rubber that interfaces with the open end of the belt clip gets stuck in the pocket.

If you're looking for something cheaper, you might look at the Dorcy Spyder. I got a two-pack from Costco for under $30 and have been pretty happy with them. While it lacks a clip (personal requirement for a light) and likes to roll around at the bottom of my pocket, its darn small and packs a great 120 lumen punch with good battery life.

Of course there's always the larger SureFires, like the old 9N and whatever its been replaced with. You might want to find a local gun shop that carries them and will let you play with them before buying. Just my $.02

August 27, 2004, 04:03 PM	#1
fyrestarter Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2004 Posts: 323	Personal defense flashlights? I was thinking of buying a new flashlight to replace my mini maglight, and I was looking at the LED models and such, but there's so damn many of them. The brand to buy seems to be Surefire, but like anything, a much touted brand is usually overrated and overpriced ($150 for a flashlight is a bit much). But I don't mind spending the money if it's really worth it. For strictly a defense application, you know, something to stuff into the pocket on a cold winter's night along with my Colt Mustang, I'd like something that's at least 4" long, has some considerable heft to it, but not too heavy, uses regular batteries, none of that recharageble stuff, and has the on-switch located at the butt (the only thing I hated about the maglight was the twist-on feature). And I'm looking for bright -- searing gas pain bright. Are the LED models brighter and more reliable? Seems like a lot of thought to put into something as pedestrian as a flashlight, but I figure any advantage is worth it. Any suggestions? __________________ "Get yourself a Glock and lose that nickel-plated sissy pistol." --Sam Gerard "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." --Thomas Jefferson

August 27, 2004, 06:55 PM	#3
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	I also recommend Candlepower forums. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubb...reads.php?Cat= I don't think you will find a light with all your requirements. I would recommend either the Pelican M6 Lithium (It is available in both xenon and LED) or the Streamlight TL2. Here is a site for reviews. http://flashlightreviews.home.att.ne...s_by_mfgrs.htm http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/ledleft.htm http://flashlightreviews.home.att.net/index1.html There are a lot of lights available, and I think that you will end up with a light that uses lithium C123 batteries. They are expensive in Walmart, but are available for $1.00 each on the web. Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

August 27, 2004, 10:09 PM	#4
VaughnT Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2000 Location: Western SC Posts: 663	I have the Surefire 6P, w/ xenon bulb, and the Pelican M6 LED. Of the two, I use the Pelican far more often because the batteries last longer and the light is more than enough to pre-trip a vehicle or see into a dark corner. The tailcap is a bit weak in the design department, but it's still workable. The Surefire is a great light, but the hype really gets to me. I can't think of anything I'd change about the light, though, and that's a good thing. Size is great for pocket carry, and they sure are bright! I did customize the Pelican by adding a Surefire constant-on tailcap switch, and both lights have the Suarez finger ring modification which I find beats the lanyard hands-down. You won't be sorry with either light, though if you want retina-burning capabilities, you really should look into the ultrabright Surefires. __________________ When Reason Fails.....

August 27, 2004, 11:25 PM	#5
fyrestarter Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2004 Posts: 323	I can't believe there's a forum dedicated to discussing flashlights. Then again, there's apparently a store solely for the purpose of selling ink cartridges..... Thanks, BTW... __________________ "Get yourself a Glock and lose that nickel-plated sissy pistol." --Sam Gerard "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." --Thomas Jefferson

August 28, 2004, 03:23 PM	#6
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	fyrestarter, I was also surprised at that. However, after being a member there, and spending more than I would admit for flashlights, I have to admit that flashlights are more interesting than one would think. Much more than printer ink. Folks laugh at me and my flashlights, but when the lights go out it is another story. My pastor was making fun of me, and I asked him for his car keys after a Sun night service when it was dark. He asked my why, and I told him that I was going to throw his and my keys out into the dark, and maybe into the dumster and let's see who would find his keys before daylight. He admitted that there was "something about flashlights." I have found that the small 1 AAA LED lights are very useful. I carry one in my pants pocket with my "red knife" and comb. I am surprised at how often I need a little light to look into some corner. The Dorsey 1 AAA at Walmart is handy and only costs $6.00. I prefer the ARC AAA as it is smaller, and nicer, but it will run about $35.00 with postage. If you start frequenting that CPF site you will sooner or later decide that it is not too much money for a small light. When you really get into it, when your wife is gone, you can go into the dark garage and shine your lights and say "WOW." When she gets home try to show her how bright the lights are, and of course she will think you are now crazy. Probably she is right, but then I can't test my handguns in the dark garage - without night sights and a flashlight. Even then it is somewhat risky. Go to CPF and see if you don't "like light rather than darkness." In a more serious vein, I believe that a bright light can be a help in a dark parking lot. Thugs don't like light, and in addition when the light, such as the PM6 is shined into their eyes they are temporarily blinded. That gives some time for what comes next, including flight, CS, or ? Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

August 27, 2004, 04:17 PM	#2
Erich Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA Posts: 2,543	LED models are not as bright as the xenon bulb models. They just run a whole lot longer. You might want to go to candlepower forums and check it out. (Edited: you know, I have no idea if there are new LED lights that are brighter than the xenon bulb models. I should say that in my limited experience with these lights, the LED models are not as bright - but I'm by no means an expert.)

August 31, 2004, 06:12 PM	#7
trapshooter Junior member Join Date: January 2, 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 902	I'm real happy with my Surefire L4. But it takes the pricey batteries. (Which will last ten years in the box from DOM, they say). Works good. Hurts the eyes. (I had to see). Carried it all over Iraq, everywhere I went. I discovered that the maglight lens covers for the mini-maglight will work, but it gets hot, so extended use of the covers and color lenses isn't advised, but I used both red and blue at different times. You have to cut the rubber lens holder for the MM down by 50%, too, but they're cheap (relatively), and necessity is the mother of ...... No provision for attaching this model to a weapon, which may be desired later. It does have the butt-switch. I paid 130, list is 160.

August 31, 2004, 06:49 PM	#8
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	Trapshooter, Are you buying your batteries from Surefire? I think they run about 12/$15. Battertstation has them for 1.25 and sometimes BOTACH has them for less than a dollar. http://www.batterystation.com/index.html http://www.botachtactical.com/ Battery station also has some good buys on Pelican M6 light both Xenon and Led. The best prices are for Candlepower Forus members. Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

September 1, 2004, 07:19 AM	#9
trapshooter Junior member Join Date: January 2, 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 902	JerryM; Actually, I'm still on the first box of batteries I bought with the light last January, but thanks for the info. This light should last a long time. There are lots of good PDL's out now, though, and fyrestarter will be able to find one that suits easily. My own feeling is that I should have gotten a more versatile model (multi-colored LED, weapons-capable), but what the heck. It did what I wanted. Live and learn.

September 4, 2004, 06:26 AM	#10
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Lithium I am very satisfied with my two Streamlight products; recommend. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

September 6, 2004, 01:15 PM	#11
Don Gwinn Staff Emeritus Join Date: March 9, 2000 Location: Virden, IL Posts: 5,917	I like my Streamlight too (Stinger XT--the aluminum body) but it's rechargeable. I don't really see the disadvantage in that, but to each his own. I do like the fact that it has "just enough" heft to be an improvised billy--it's about 6-8" long and made of aluminum. I went through a phase where I would shine my lights through neighbors' dark windows or against their houses at night, from my backyard. I wasn't peeping, I just wondered what they thought of this sudden patch of more or less bright light from nowhere. __________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don Gwinn: Chicago Gun Rights Examiner

October 19, 2004, 03:07 AM	#14
sageowl Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2004 Posts: 194	If you're going to be shooting with it, get a Xenon light with lithium batteries. LEDs are great for lighting up an area if that's what you're looking for, I personally dont care for any of the ones I've used for force-option / shooting situations. Just purchased a SureFire C2 Centurion (2x123A, 65 lumen) with optional P61 lamp (120 lumen). While I was convinced I would be discarding the 65 lumen head, I've actually not had a problem with it. Haven't gone out and compared distance of illumination yet but it did fine at the magical 7 yard mark. My only complaints about this light are its diameter (little bigger than I'd like) and that the rubber that interfaces with the open end of the belt clip gets stuck in the pocket. If you're looking for something cheaper, you might look at the Dorcy Spyder. I got a two-pack from Costco for under $30 and have been pretty happy with them. While it lacks a clip (personal requirement for a light) and likes to roll around at the bottom of my pocket, its darn small and packs a great 120 lumen punch with good battery life. Of course there's always the larger SureFires, like the old 9N and whatever its been replaced with. You might want to find a local gun shop that carries them and will let you play with them before buying. Just my $.02