Remington 700 .308 (Factory) - Page 2

CharlieDeltaJuliet · June 26, 2013, 05:27 PM

Actually weren't the Army 6400 mil and the USMC 6283?

Jimro · June 26, 2013, 07:53 PM

CharlieDeltaJuliet,

There are differences in the "Mildot" reticles used by the US Army and USMC, but that has to do with the dot shape, round vs. oval, and not the angle measured.

Last I checked USMC used 6400, it is NATO standard and all the USMC artillery guys get their training at Fort Sill, OK same as the Army guys. Standardizing fire support is damn important, although our guys have to learn the Soviet system in order to train Afghan Soldiers on the Soviet aiming system (even the ubiquitous 82mm system has the 6000 mil adjustments).

Jimro

WWWJD · June 26, 2013, 08:19 PM

Shot with a 20" 1:12 SPS .308. Stock barrel. Stock action. Nothing special other than accessories I've added. It's repeatable hot or cold bore.

175gr Sierra MatchKing, 43.0gr IMR4064, Federal Match Primer, Lapua cases, 2.795" OAL, .306 neck.

Keep trying with handloads?

CharlieDeltaJuliet · June 26, 2013, 09:16 PM

Thanks Jimro, I wasn't sure. I had read it. Some where I believe..

Edit: here is where I think I saw it. http://www.boomershoot.org/general/TruthMilDots.htm

Jimro · June 26, 2013, 09:49 PM

CharlieDeltaJuliet,

I stand corrected, there does seem to be an angular difference between the two reticles. Those infantry guys just have to be the odd men out. However the difference is insignificant compared to the dimensions of the dots and ovals.

ARMY: 3.375 moa multiplied by 1.047” x 10 = 35.3” @ 1000 yards
USMC: 3.438 moa multiplied by 1.047” x 10 = 36.0” @ 1000 yards

Both Army and USMC snipers have the goal of estimating to the tenth of a mil to get an accurate range estimation, and the difference between Arty and True is insignificant inside direct fire ranges. For the purpose of Artillery launching a projectile over 15 kilometers that difference becomes significant. Over a thousand yards the difference is a bit less than that, however for the purposes of direct fire by a sniper, not so much as you can see by the math.

So every sniper (Army B4 or USMC SS) whether they are using Army or USMC scopes is going to use the same range estimation formula, which is why the "mildot math" works no matter which reticle you happen to be using.

Jimro

CharlieDeltaJuliet · June 27, 2013, 08:24 AM

Jimro, I wouldn't take that website to heart. That's why I honestly trust the knowledge of people over the Internet... I get what you are saying about the "math". Years ago when I first started using a mil/mil scope I was made fun of. I was told it was too confusing and would never catch on, MOA adjustments were the way to go. Today all but one of my high powered rifles have mil/mil scopes on them.

I have always preferred a SFP scope too, so a mil/mil is perfect for that.

Bart B. · June 27, 2013, 04:15 PM

I'm sure glad we're not discussing precious and standard metals where there's two numbers of ounces in a pound; one's got 16 of 'em and the other's got 12.

How 'bout the length of a mile? 2500 yards, 5280 feet, one minute of latitude, 6081 feet or 1760 yards? There's miles with each number for different standards.

Marksinsoni · July 6, 2013, 01:11 PM

Its ok for a factory chambered rifle. Sometimes you need to break your rifle in, just like a new car. For 308, I would not trust naything other than a PTR, H&K, or a Spring Field Armory rifle. It could be the rifle too that you have but give it a few hundred more rounds before returning it.

Don't forget a lot depends on the ammo too. Buy LC or Seneca Armory brass ammo and you will be amazed how much the ammo makes the difference. SA is little cheaper than the LC. Also start with 147g ammo on your new rifle, not that it matters but cost wise I would rather break my rifle in using cheaper rounds than go for 168g high end rounds. Never use steel case ammo either.

June 26, 2013, 05:27 PM	#26
CharlieDeltaJuliet Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2012 Posts: 755	Actually weren't the Army 6400 mil and the USMC 6283? __________________ " The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government...." - Thomas Jefferson

June 26, 2013, 07:53 PM	#27
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	CharlieDeltaJuliet, There are differences in the "Mildot" reticles used by the US Army and USMC, but that has to do with the dot shape, round vs. oval, and not the angle measured. Last I checked USMC used 6400, it is NATO standard and all the USMC artillery guys get their training at Fort Sill, OK same as the Army guys. Standardizing fire support is damn important, although our guys have to learn the Soviet system in order to train Afghan Soldiers on the Soviet aiming system (even the ubiquitous 82mm system has the 6000 mil adjustments). Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

June 26, 2013, 08:19 PM	#28
WWWJD Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2011 Location: Central KY Posts: 552	Shot with a 20" 1:12 SPS .308. Stock barrel. Stock action. Nothing special other than accessories I've added. It's repeatable hot or cold bore. 175gr Sierra MatchKing, 43.0gr IMR4064, Federal Match Primer, Lapua cases, 2.795" OAL, .306 neck. Keep trying with handloads? __________________ *~Mark* NRA Endowment FTW

June 26, 2013, 09:16 PM	#29
CharlieDeltaJuliet Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2012 Posts: 755	Thanks Jimro, I wasn't sure. I had read it. Some where I believe.. Edit: here is where I think I saw it. http://www.boomershoot.org/general/TruthMilDots.htm __________________ " The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government...." - Thomas Jefferson

June 26, 2013, 09:49 PM	#30
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	CharlieDeltaJuliet, I stand corrected, there does seem to be an angular difference between the two reticles. Those infantry guys just have to be the odd men out. However the difference is insignificant compared to the dimensions of the dots and ovals. ARMY: 3.375 moa multiplied by 1.047” x 10 = 35.3” @ 1000 yards USMC: 3.438 moa multiplied by 1.047” x 10 = 36.0” @ 1000 yards Both Army and USMC snipers have the goal of estimating to the tenth of a mil to get an accurate range estimation, and the difference between Arty and True is insignificant inside direct fire ranges. For the purpose of Artillery launching a projectile over 15 kilometers that difference becomes significant. Over a thousand yards the difference is a bit less than that, however for the purposes of direct fire by a sniper, not so much as you can see by the math. So every sniper (Army B4 or USMC SS) whether they are using Army or USMC scopes is going to use the same range estimation formula, which is why the "mildot math" works no matter which reticle you happen to be using. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

June 27, 2013, 08:24 AM	#31
CharlieDeltaJuliet Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2012 Posts: 755	Jimro, I wouldn't take that website to heart. That's why I honestly trust the knowledge of people over the Internet... I get what you are saying about the "math". Years ago when I first started using a mil/mil scope I was made fun of. I was told it was too confusing and would never catch on, MOA adjustments were the way to go. Today all but one of my high powered rifles have mil/mil scopes on them. I have always preferred a SFP scope too, so a mil/mil is perfect for that. __________________ " The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government...." - Thomas Jefferson

June 27, 2013, 04:15 PM	#32
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	I'm sure glad we're not discussing precious and standard metals where there's two numbers of ounces in a pound; one's got 16 of 'em and the other's got 12. How 'bout the length of a mile? 2500 yards, 5280 feet, one minute of latitude, 6081 feet or 1760 yards? There's miles with each number for different standards.

July 6, 2013, 01:11 PM	#33
Marksinsoni Junior Member Join Date: July 3, 2013 Posts: 10	Its ok for a factory chambered rifle. Sometimes you need to break your rifle in, just like a new car. For 308, I would not trust naything other than a PTR, H&K, or a Spring Field Armory rifle. It could be the rifle too that you have but give it a few hundred more rounds before returning it. Don't forget a lot depends on the ammo too. Buy LC or Seneca Armory brass ammo and you will be amazed how much the ammo makes the difference. SA is little cheaper than the LC. Also start with 147g ammo on your new rifle, not that it matters but cost wise I would rather break my rifle in using cheaper rounds than go for 168g high end rounds. Never use steel case ammo either.