Is FFFFg good for anything?

awaveritt · June 18, 2012, 11:34 AM

I recently acquired a lb. of Goex FFFFg. Has anyone ever used this granulation in cap n ball or cartridge loading, or is it only useful as a flash pan primer?

BTW, this is from an old lot from when it was still made in Pennsylvania.

Rifleman1776 · June 18, 2012, 11:45 AM

It is primarily a pan primer for flintlocks.
However, it is successfully used in C&B revolvers.
But, personally, I would use only in better quality C&B revolvers. Some of the older El Cheapos are not always made with quality materials and the increased pressure might exceed what they can tolerate.
As far as age is concerned, if kept dry it will still be good centuries from now.

Jim Watson · June 18, 2012, 11:59 AM

I have heard of people doing black powder only duplexing with some fine-grained powder under the main charge of medium or coarse. Sounds like a lot of work for what you get... if anything.

duelist1954 · June 18, 2012, 12:24 PM

I always use it in .31 caliber C&B revolvers.

bedbugbilly · June 18, 2012, 02:40 PM

I use it for priming my flintlocks . . . a pound of it lasts a looooong time!

As stated by duelist . . . a lot of folks us it in the 31 cal. pocket pistols like the Wells Fargo Model, '49 Pocket, Pocket Remington, etc.

mykeal · June 18, 2012, 03:27 PM

Why use it in .31 cal revolvers and not .36 cal revolvers? What's the advantage, and how does the finer granulation create that advantage?

B.L.E. · June 18, 2012, 06:54 PM

I use it as a main charge for my muzzleloading derringer pistol. You use less powder so there is more barrel available to accerlerate the ball.

I use it sometimes in my ROA if I want maximum velocity with a round ball. I haven't chronographed it yet but Lyman claims 1036 fps with a 41 grain charge of Goex FFFFg. A 40 grain charge of FFFg only results in 917 fps.

I use Swiss NullB for priming flintlocks now. There used to be some Goex 7f going around but I haven't seen any for sale lately.

Al Den · June 18, 2012, 07:53 PM

Priming, especially matchlocks and wheelocks. I would NOT load pistols with it over a .22. Remember that velocity is exponential in the calculation for a bullet's energy.

Energy = (Mass/2) * (Velocity*Velocity)

A little velocity? That means alot more energy. That's pressure. That could be dangerous well beyond what looks like a small change in velocity.

freedom475 · June 18, 2012, 10:40 PM

I use 4f in my 44 Remingon 1858 with round balls for deer hunting. 25gr of 4f gives me 930fps...that is still slower than Pyrodex P but quite a bit faster than 3f which only yields 780fps. You can sure hear a difference in the muzzle report if you shoot it a lot.

I researched the use of 4f a lot and I even went over the testing data with a ballistics tech... his pressure testing did always show an increase in pressure but there was never any danger until the powder column reached +3" in length...When the powder column reaches 3 inches in length, bad things happen with 4ffff.

B.L.E. · June 19, 2012, 06:34 AM

Lyman did some pressure testing using a modified cap and ball revolver. 37 grains of powder 3f and 4f resulted in 7,420 and 7,940 LUP using Goex powders.
C&H 4f actually produced lower pressure than Goex 3f, 6820 LUP.

Looking at these pressures and considering the fact that a Ruger Old Army is essentially a Super Blackhawk converted to a cap and ball revolver, I'm not worried about it blowing up with 4f.

It's just the next smaller granulation of black powder, not dynamite.

noelf2 · June 19, 2012, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Why use it in .31 cal revolvers and not .36 cal revolvers? What's the advantage, and how does the finer granulation create that advantage?

Depending on the revolver, you usually can get more powder in a .36. For something like a baby dragoon in .31 the ffffg is supposed to give you a bit more power/velocity than fffg in such a small chamber. At least that's the theory. I don't have much use for ffffg. I use fffg in the flash pan and barrel of my flintlock rifle. I'm sure there's a difference in lock time, but I sure don't notice it.

robhof · June 19, 2012, 01:06 PM

I've used it in my ROA on many occasions, after originally running out of 3f at the range and having a priming horn of 4f, I tried it and it worked fine. I have used it many times since and also use it in my 31 Wells Fargo. The only difference besides a little more pressure is using more powder to fill the same space as the 3f.

June 18, 2012, 11:34 AM	#1
awaveritt Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2008 Location: Central Texas Posts: 259	Is FFFFg good for anything? I recently acquired a lb. of Goex FFFFg. Has anyone ever used this granulation in cap n ball or cartridge loading, or is it only useful as a flash pan primer? BTW, this is from an old lot from when it was still made in Pennsylvania.

June 18, 2012, 02:40 PM	#5
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	I use it for priming my flintlocks . . . a pound of it lasts a looooong time! As stated by duelist . . . a lot of folks us it in the 31 cal. pocket pistols like the Wells Fargo Model, '49 Pocket, Pocket Remington, etc. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

June 18, 2012, 10:40 PM	#9
freedom475 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2008 Location: Rocky Mountains of Montana Posts: 292	I use 4f in my 44 Remingon 1858 with round balls for deer hunting. 25gr of 4f gives me 930fps...that is still slower than Pyrodex P but quite a bit faster than 3f which only yields 780fps. You can sure hear a difference in the muzzle report if you shoot it a lot. I researched the use of 4f a lot and I even went over the testing data with a ballistics tech... his pressure testing did always show an increase in pressure but there was never any danger until the powder column reached +3" in length...When the powder column reaches 3 inches in length, bad things happen with 4ffff. __________________ Maker of Horse Tack and Cowboy Gear. www.7xleather.com Mister, why do you carry a 45? "Cause Sam Colt don't make a 46."

June 19, 2012, 01:06 PM	#12
robhof Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2007 Posts: 712	robhof I've used it in my ROA on many occasions, after originally running out of 3f at the range and having a priming horn of 4f, I tried it and it worked fine. I have used it many times since and also use it in my 31 Wells Fargo. The only difference besides a little more pressure is using more powder to fill the same space as the 3f.

June 18, 2012, 11:45 AM	#2
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	It is primarily a pan primer for flintlocks. However, it is successfully used in C&B revolvers. But, personally, I would use only in better quality C&B revolvers. Some of the older El Cheapos are not always made with quality materials and the increased pressure might exceed what they can tolerate. As far as age is concerned, if kept dry it will still be good centuries from now.

June 18, 2012, 11:59 AM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	I have heard of people doing black powder only duplexing with some fine-grained powder under the main charge of medium or coarse. Sounds like a lot of work for what you get... if anything.

June 18, 2012, 12:24 PM	#4
duelist1954 Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2011 Location: Central Pennsylvania Posts: 567	I always use it in .31 caliber C&B revolvers.

June 18, 2012, 03:27 PM	#6
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Why use it in .31 cal revolvers and not .36 cal revolvers? What's the advantage, and how does the finer granulation create that advantage?

June 18, 2012, 06:54 PM	#7
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	I use it as a main charge for my muzzleloading derringer pistol. You use less powder so there is more barrel available to accerlerate the ball. I use it sometimes in my ROA if I want maximum velocity with a round ball. I haven't chronographed it yet but Lyman claims 1036 fps with a 41 grain charge of Goex FFFFg. A 40 grain charge of FFFg only results in 917 fps. I use Swiss NullB for priming flintlocks now. There used to be some Goex 7f going around but I haven't seen any for sale lately.

June 18, 2012, 07:53 PM	#8
Al Den Junior member Join Date: April 28, 2012 Posts: 150	Priming, especially matchlocks and wheelocks. I would NOT load pistols with it over a .22. Remember that velocity is exponential in the calculation for a bullet's energy. Energy = (Mass/2) * (Velocity*Velocity) A little velocity? That means alot more energy. That's pressure. That could be dangerous well beyond what looks like a small change in velocity.

June 19, 2012, 06:34 AM	#10
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	Lyman did some pressure testing using a modified cap and ball revolver. 37 grains of powder 3f and 4f resulted in 7,420 and 7,940 LUP using Goex powders. C&H 4f actually produced lower pressure than Goex 3f, 6820 LUP. Looking at these pressures and considering the fact that a Ruger Old Army is essentially a Super Blackhawk converted to a cap and ball revolver, I'm not worried about it blowing up with 4f. It's just the next smaller granulation of black powder, not dynamite.