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Old December 31, 2011, 05:56 PM   #26
Amsdorf
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Just buy HXP ammo from CMP and be done with it. It is cheaper than reloading and you should not use commercial ammo in your M1, it is loaded hotter than standard M2 issue.

Nothing to be afraid of.

I just had mine out today and put seven rounds in a 1.5" group, from the bench, of course.

It's a fantastic rifle.

Enjoy.
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Old January 2, 2012, 07:54 PM   #27
Slamfire
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Quote:
Factory ammo wont cause that problem. Reloads do.

Not true. Assuming a mechanically correct rifle, that is no busted parts, then the primary cause of slamfires, in battery or out of battery, is primer sensitivity and firing pin inertia.

This mechanism, and a number of other mechanisms, have free floating firing pins. That firing pin is tapping that primer all the way down. If the primer is particularly sensitive and the firing pin has sufficient kinetic energy to ignite the primer, you will have a slamfire. Whether it is in battery or out of battery depends whether the locking lugs are engaged.

It is a prudent safety measure to use the least sensitive primer on the market.

Quote:
If its too long, (shoulder to base) it wont go in the chamber all the way. This could cause failure to fire, failure to eject, and makes it difficult to remove an unfired round from the chamber. AND, in worse cases slam fires.
This is very true. Fat and long cases are aggravating factors in Garand/M1a slamfires. In my opinion fat or overly long cases are dangerous in Garands/M1a’s. If that bolt has to de-accelerate to crunch fit the case to the chamber, that firing pin is hitting that primer at a maximum velocity, and the lugs may not be engaged.

That is why I consider it a prudent safety measure to use small base dies when sizing cases in these mechanisms and why I set up my dies with Wilson type gages and size to gage minimum. I want absolutely no delay to bolt closure. .



Read these accounts of shooter’s slamfires with factory ammunition, CCI #34 (the least sensitive primer on the market), federal primers (the most sensitive primer on the market) and decide if slamfires are a myth.

Due to a character length limit, I cannot post all my Garand slamfire accounts. There are more.


Quote:
Garand Slamfire with LC 69

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=264020


“While the M1 and M14/M1A do have the "web", slam fires are still possible and can be catastrophic. I was lucky enough to come through one with a GI Springfield M1 from the DCM about 20 years ago using LC 69 issue ammo. The rifle held together for the most part, but did fire out of battery on loading a single round in slow fire. If it had been in a rapid fire string, I most likely would not be typing this right now. The rear of the receiver from just aft of the serial number was blown off and the stock cracked with a big chunk blown out of it. The bolt was jammed into the back of the receiver and would not come forward. The op rod handle ripped the palm of my hand open, and you could read the head stamp of the case in reverse on my palm. The recovered empty case was about an inch long. Never did find the rear of the receiver. The DCM took the rifle back and never did tell me what they determined went wrong. They replaced it with a brand new, and I mean, brand new, never issued H&R.

If you shoot either the M1 or M14, I would highly suggest you either use a SLED with the M1 or load single rounds from the mag on the M1A. Reloads should use the harder primers, like CCI, and I check mine with a seating gage. ”


From Old Culver’s forum:

I opt for the #34. A number of my friends who shoot the Garand regularly use LR primers. One who specializes in ballistics for a large ammunition mfr says it is imperative to have the primer seated .005", no less but a std LR primer is safe.

The # 34 will not save you from the many mistakes that can be made with a Garand, but will add some insurance against death or severe injuries that can occur even when you have all the safety bases covered.

I started shooting the Garand in 1958 in service, was a unit armorer, have owned and fired Garands for close to 50 years.

One slam fire is enough to coax a person out of complacency. Fortunately, the bolt gouged into the receiver a third way back so my right hand and arm were the only recipients of countless tiny pieces of hot brass. Since I was old enough for the doctors not to worry about blood poisoning over time, they left the brass in the tissue.

The cartridge was a 'Garand safe' commercial match round. Two gunsmiths found nothing to indicate a problem with the rifle, but after checking the primers/seating depth surmised that the firing pin dimpled-fired the LR primer in the round.

That occurred in 1999 and since then I have fired over 8,000 rounds through several Garand's, all using CCI #34 and have not had any problems. I think the major authors/gunsmiths who specialize in the Garand will tell you to use the #34.

If you really get curious about primer seating depth, mic some Lake City milsurp, some commercial Match ammo and some of your own loads, if you load. If you have any of the LC, a quick visual will show you that the primers are seated quite a bit deeper than any commercial ammo. And they are mil-spec primers, less sensitive than std LR commercial primers.



Garand Slamfires with Federal American Eagle ammunition.


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=366406

dmftoy1
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Join Date: 11-17-03
Location: Lexington, IL
Posts: 1,947 FWIW if you're going to use commercial ammo (non-nato) I would not single load if you decide to do any service rifle matches as the softer primers (IMHO) are a greater risk of a slam fire. I was recently shooting next to a guy shooting Federal American Eagle 150 grain (30-06) in a Garand and he had a slam fire upon releasing the bolt. I think if you're loading from a magazine you're probably ok as the extra "drag" slows down the bolt slightly.

Just my .02

Regards,
Dave




2008 slamfire with Greek HXP 88 30-06 ammunition.
http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/reloa...ad=31735#31762

Re: M1 Garand / Hang fire ?
Levisdad <Send E-Mail> -- Tues 3 Jun 2008 8:54 am
Yep 1988, Lot hxp 88j001-002
I also had a slamfire out of this same lot a short time ago.
The slamfire was from closing the bolt using a two round clip. It was the second stage of rapid prone. I've fired 200 rds after that with out a problem. Until the two hangfires.


Slamfire with HXP 20 Feb 2010

http://www.thecmp.org/forums/showthr...?t=8784&page=2

Today, 09:03 AM
chevycrazy69
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 11


________________________________________
I have had one slamfire with a M1 garand. I was single loading during the sighters portion of a NRA high power match. Sure scared the crap out of me. I put the garand down and finished the match with my AR. I was using HXP ball. I have no idea what caused the slam fire. It has made me much more careful in how fast I let the bolt forward during single loading. I have fired hundreds of rounds (both reloads and ball) in that garand since without a single problem. I have used CCI 34 primers in all my garand reloads since. Do I feel it is needed, no. But I am a design engineer and like to take a "belt and suspender" approach to my safety. I do use winchester small rifle primers in my AR and have for many thousands of rounds. I wish I knew if that particular HXP round had a high primer or not.


http://handgunsandammo.proboards.com...ay&thread=9424



M1 Garand woes...
« Thread Started on May 2, 2010, 4:39am »
________________________________________
Well, today I got to attend a super-awesome marksmanship clinic on how to improve our positions for highpower shooting using sling support. I learned *a lot* The big take away was to really practice and stick to the fundamentals and get those things down.

The icing on the cake was to be a course of fire. I was using my treasured M1 Garand rifle and 1980 HXP Greek M2 150gr. ball ammunition. During the slow fire prone I was putting individual cartridges in the chamber, and then closing the bolt. During this exercise, I had an out of battery cartridge detonation. Confused and shocked me a bit, but fortunately the rifle was pointed down range, and the fired cartridge case jumped out backwards, sailed past me and hit me in the arm/torso/leg area. The primer was pimpled out and extruded a bit, but otherwise everything held together. The diagnosis was that the firing pin may have become elongated and may need replacing. I hope it is something simple. I switched to firing an unfamiliar M1 rifle, and encountered the frustration of not really knowing where it hit, and having to make adjustments on the fly. Then I had five cartridges and a magazine jump out of the rifle half-way after the third shot was fired. Then I shot an off-hand string, which was all over the paper, and I realized belatedly that the gas cylinder and the attached sights were loose and free to slide fore and aft!

So it was frustrating, to say the least. I've literally never had any issue or problem with an M1 apart from a cartridge case buckling and causing a stoppage once, and i stopped using that brand of ammo and never had a repeat. But today was clearly not my day.

Read more: http://handgunsandammo.proboards.com...#ixzz1268Lr7Uw

Garand Slamfires with Greek Ammunition

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7446022

Yesterday, 07:53 PM
#6

ArchAngelCD
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Join Date: November 25, 2006
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 9,272 Almost forgot to mention this, I bought 6 cans of Greek M1 ammo from CMP. In the second can I opened I actually had 3 slam-fires from 3 different clips. Didn't happen with ammo in the first can, didn't happen again with the rest of the ammo from that can or the next 2 cans of ammo I used. (192 rounds per can, 768 total rounds) Go figure, never happened to me with my reloads using standard CCI and Winchester primers as well as CCI #34 primers but I got 3 with ammo specifically loaded for the Garand by a government arsenal!

Garand Slamfire with Federal Primers

http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/reloa...mes;read=31870


Soft Primers Easy Slamfire? http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...Number=1321745

I suppose that this reply will show age on my part, but here goes. I carry a scar on my right palm from 13 stitches due to a slam fire back in the 80's. The rifle was a Match Grade M-1 Garand. Shooting NRA highpower requires 22 shots slow fire from 200 yds in the first stage. Loading a Garand single shot is no monumental task, but here is how it all happened.
While shooting the offhand stage, I was at my 6th shot for record with everything going fine. I slid #6 into the chamber, depressed the follower to allow the bolt to run home, and turned loose of the op rod. The bolt moved forward until it hit the rear of the follower and stopped. This is where i made my mistake. Rather than using my thumb to pop the op rod handle, I opted to bump it with the palm of my hand. Upon closing and partially locking into battery, the firing pin tapped the primer and ignited it. The op rod handle slammed into my palm and opened it up like a sardine can. Wrapped up the hand, went to the saw bones, and 13 stitches later I a fixed man.
That year I personally witnessed 2 other slam fires in matches. All with M-1 garands, and all using Federal 210M primers. One of the other guys has a scar identical to mine, the other person was smarter and got his meat hook out of the way. I notified Federal at the time of my accident to see if they had changed anything in their primer cups. They wanted me to send my rifle back for inspection, but I declined since I was shooting matches with it. Later that year I see an article in American Rifleman about how they had thickened their primer cups due to this problem.
I've never heard of slam fires on M-1A's, M-14's, or Ar's, but feel that it's allways a possibility. After my incident, I learned to allways bump the op rod with my thumb, palm up. That way all meat is out of the way.
You can readily tell if a Garand has ever slam fired. When it happens, it blows the windage knob clear off the sight and removes the top corner of the right locking lug recess in the receiver. I hope I've cleared this up for some. Kevin
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Garand Slamfire with Winchester Primers
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=39841

July 12th, 2010, 07:18 PM #16

Drmsparks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambo
I had a Slam-fire occur with my Garand when I was using Winchester Primers. The Cup Metal is to soft in those for use in Military Rifles. I now use the CCI #34 and haven't had that problem since.
Ditto. We have had a rash of slamfires (and blown primers) with the hornady garand match ammo. According to Hornady they were winchester primers.


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Garand Slamfire with Federal Primers

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...hlight=federal

Mine was once more than nine years ago and it rattled my faith in the old girl for sure - I mean it's a GARAND!

It was the first round of a full clip and the rifle closed all the way (as far as I could tell) so the only damage was to my trust in things. The round went downrange safely - even hit my target backer although I hadn't set into aiming the shot. It fed the next round just fine which was also Federal primed and didn't fire that one. I unloaded the rifle.

I set that rifle aside for the day as I wasn't sure what had happened. Another shooter asked me about the primer used and told me for the first time I'd heard it that Federal primers were too sensitive to use in semi-auto rifles. I didn't know any better and still am not sure of it but I've never had one slamfire using Winchester or CCI priming. I know that one incident isn't enough to substantiate a blanket condemnation but seeing you say it struck home for me.

There didn't seem to be anything wrong with the rifle and that's been proved out over a couple thousand rounds since, so I've taken it on faith and not used a Federal primer in any of my Garand rifles since.

It's a Springfield Armory, 1-55 date barrel but it isn't original to the receiver, though it came from CMP on another receiver that I converted to 7.62. It measures like a new one and has three "P" stamps, one "T" stamp, the small "m" and "A217B" on it. A couple of people have thought that it was a barrel designated for NM use, but I don't know any of that. It IS a good shooting barrel though.

I only know that nothing about the barrel or the receiver (so far as I can tell)contributed to that slamfire episode. To play it safe I took a little cut to take the headspace out to just short of my "No-Go" gauge because it had felt a little resistant closing on my 'Go' gauge and I thought maybe that could have brought the slamfire. It was probably just my worrying.

I use an old set of RCBS dies, hand prime with a Lee Auto-prime (or whatever it's called) to be sure of my primer set. The round was good but it had Federal No.210 priming and not being able to find another reason for that slamfire I switched to Winchester primers for the rest of my loading for the caliber.
It's been a lot of years since I shot high power matches so now I'm content to shoot CMP ammo, the Greek stuff these days


Garand Slamfires with Federal Primers
01-07-2009, 04:55 PM
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________________________________________
I had a slam fire in a M1. feel free to disreguard this post because few shooters have first hand knowledge, and even fewer have had one. It only happens to others so why worry, except if you are using federal match (very accrate) primers in a gas gun, You are playing russian roulette. My slam fire was in the mid 1980's. It was with a Federal match primer. I got very involved in this and found 17 cases of M1 slam fires with one common factor, ALL WERE WITH FEDERAL MATCH PRIMERS.


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DCM Garand slamfires out of battery with LC69 ammo

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-178109.html

AK103K
January 21st, 2006, 05:17 PM
My right hand got tore up pretty good when my DCM Garand went hand grenade. I'm just glad it happened when I was single loading it, we never found the rear of the receiver, which I have a feeling would have ended up in my head. The worst part of the whole thing was, it happened in New Jersey and trying to convince the people at the hospital that it wasnt a "gun shot" wound and no need to bring the police into it.


AK103K
January 21st, 2006, 09:03 PM
I believe it slam fired. The recovered case was missing the front half, which leads me to believe it fired out of battery. The ammo was DCM issued GI Lake City 69 and not commercial 30-06 or reloads. I sent it back to Anniston and they never did tell me what they thought the cause was. They did send me a brand new H&R though. I still shoot M1's, but I no longer load single rounds by allowing the bolt to go home on its own, and anymore, I usually use a SLED. I also only use CCI primers when I do reload, for both my M1 and M1A's, and I also mike the primers.

edit to add: I dont believe that the M1 and M1A's firing pins can protrude or reach the primer, due to a slotted bridge in the receiver, that wont allow the tail of the firing pin by until the bolt is closing or closed.

Garand Slamfires with issue ball and NM ammunition

http://forum.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=251078

11-23-2009, 12:23 PM
lowflash
Member Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 233

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRPfan
I've only read about first-hand slam fires (not hearsay) on the Internet a couple of times. There are two problems with this. First, we believe what we read on the Internet, and while a lot of good info is out there, so is a lot of misinformation. Also, we cannot get any kind of statistical information for how often slamfires happen.
Three slam fires with M1 rifles:
1964 ITR Camp Geiger NC International Harvester Mfgr M1 with issue ball ammunition, 1968 Gitmo Marine Marksmanship Instructor for Sailors using M1 rifles converted 7.62 Nato with issued 7.62mm Match XM118 Lot LC 12010, and a M1 Springfield match conditioned by Clint Fowler in 7.62 Nato ammunition .308 Federal Match. All three rifles were examined and found to be with in specification.



A friend who is a very experienced highpower competitor and reloader wrecked his match grade M1 Garand using the same handloads he had used for years when the rifle slam fired out of battery. Bent his op-rod, blew extractor/ejector out of bolt and rounded the receiver locking lug recess about 1/8" showing the bolt lug (thankfully) had barely entered the recess but was not fully in battery at the time the slamfire occurred. He received a cut on the forehead and had somewhat of a problem with his trigger control for a while thereafter. Fortunately, the rifle, and his shooting ability have since been restored.

Upon examination of the remaining lot of ammo, we found that the rounds did not have sufficient headspace (clearance) in his snug, match chamber. He had loaded this batch of ammo using the same (full length) die setting as always. Remember, all previous lots had measured OK. The problem stemmed from the fact that this particular lot of brass had been fired at least 8 times and had work hardened. His dies had been set to give proper headspace with once fired brass and he failed to check headspace on this lot after loading. The harder brass springs back more than softer brass after sizing which resulted in oversized (for his chamber)rounds.

Regards,
hps



Garand Slamfire with CCI #34 primer
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=35116
08-25-2008, 06:46 AM
#17

B747
Boolit Man



Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 125 Also, keep in mind that the Garand has a floating firing pin that will at the very least make an indent mark on the primer if you release the bolt from all the way back.

I've had a slam-fire on mine even with a CCI #34 military style primer with the hard shell is supposed to help prevent that. When single round loading I now drop the bolt from about half way closed to keep bolt closing speed down.

A slam fire is always a bad deal --- if it occurs out of breach lock, really bad things will happen.

Wally
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Old January 2, 2012, 10:10 PM   #28
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Geez, Slamfire....just posting the links would've worked fine, you didn't have to copy and paste it all!
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Old January 2, 2012, 10:14 PM   #29
Tempest 455
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I almost exclusively breech load a single round into my Garands and never had a slam fire. That's with both M2 ball and off the shelf ammo.
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Old January 3, 2012, 07:50 AM   #30
AK103K
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Just because you havent had a slamfire, doesnt mean one isnt in your future. I think how you single load can make a big difference.

If youre placing the round firmly into the chamber and riding the bolt down onto it, then locking the bolt with the heel of your hand, the chances of it happening are about nil.

Just pop a round loosely into the chamber and let the bolt fly, and I think youre increasing your odds a good bit.

The M1 was designed to feed from a clip and not be singly loaded. A SLED allows you to do so without fiddling with a clip. They do entail some fiddling themselves, but thats mostly with installation/removal.

Slamfires are not something that happens very often, but you should be aware of the problem and understand why it occurs. If you reload, you need to exercise more care and pay close attention to your methods and check a few things other guns dont normally need as close attention to.
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Old January 3, 2012, 09:12 AM   #31
MythBuster
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If you are careful about single loading you are less likely to have a slam fire single loading as you are firing semi auto.

When I single load a round and pull the round back out of the chamber there is not even a trace of a firing pin mark on the round.

There is always a dimple on the primer on a round fed into the chamber loading from the clip.
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Old January 3, 2012, 10:21 AM   #32
AK103K
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"If you are careful" is the key phrase here. Not everyone is, or thinks what they are doing is wrong.

A lot of us were taught to just pop the round into the chamber and let the bolt fly. Ive seen it done this way probably a million plus times over the years, and with no problem what so ever.

The dimple in the primer is just the nature of the beast with these, and other type rifles. AR's do it too. 99.99% of the time, with issue ammo, its nothing to worry about. With handloads, using improper techniques and/or components, and it can be an issue. Of course, this is all assuming there are no mechanical problems with the gun itself either.

The rifle was designed to feed from the clip (or mag) and doing so, eliminates most of the possibility of the round having problems you can encounter single loading if youre "not careful" .

My gun did "double" a couple of times during the rapid fire stage. It was a new (to me) gun and I thought it was me and didnt give it much thought, as it can happen with these rifles. After the brass was recovered later, and there were a couple of cases with the necks blown out, it became obvious something else was going on. I was lucky enough it happened in the slow fire stage, if it had been during the rapid fire stage, I probably wouldnt be typing this now.
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Old January 3, 2012, 11:19 AM   #33
Slamfire
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Quote:
Geez, Slamfire....just posting the links would've worked fine, you didn't have to copy and paste it all!
I copy the link and the text. Links will become non functional over time and it is too much work to constantly verify, so at least the text will be there.

Jouster took all of its old pages down, for example, so by retaining pictures and text, I kept a record of issues important to me.

Besides, you can post a link and people don't follow. I have done that many a time in a thread and found subsequent posters never looked.
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Old January 3, 2012, 11:35 AM   #34
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Quote:
A lot of us were taught to just pop the round into the chamber and let the bolt fly. Ive seen it done this way probably a million plus times over the years, and with no problem what so ever.
The year the CMP stopped issuing LC ammunition at Camp Perry for the Garand match, might have been 2001, we were issued Federal in a nice CMP box.

I shot in the afternoon and on the "load command", for standing, everyone heard a rifle slamfire. Blam! My hut mate was near the rifle in question and said it slamfired.

A bud who shot in the morning said they had so many slamfires that "they like never got the match going".

These were all in battery slamfires or we would have heard of injuries and the ambulance would have been on the range.

Federal was used in 2002 the ammunition was not as hot and they must have used less sensitive primers.

I am sure slamfires occur during the standing stage after first round down range, but once the shooting starts, you cannot distinguish slamfires from the regular rounds.

I have had a slamfire in the AR during the standing stage and the shooter on relay two had his AR slamfire when I was scoring him. I was using WSR and he was using Federal Match. We both dropped a round in the chamber and hit the bolt release. Blam!

My bud told me in Dec he had another slamfire with Federals in his AR and now he lowers the bolt with the charging handle and hits the forward assist. He also no longer uses Federals in his AR, they are just too sensitive.

I lower the AR bolt half way and let go of the charging handle. In fact that is what I do with the Garand. I believe that lowering the forward speed of the bolt really reduces the chance of a primer initated slamfire, plus I am using CCI #34's.
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Old January 3, 2012, 04:51 PM   #35
Slamfire
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Quote:
Seems like every time I take it out I hear from some old gun nut that it MUST be fed the right ammo that MUST use a certain grain bullet, that MUST use a certain type of powder, and MUST NOT have a muzzle velocity of over 2,700 fps. This is usually followed by a story about a friend of a friend who had some horrible instance that resulted in anything from a bent op rod to a trip to the local hospital.
Seems to be good advice to me.

These rifles were type classified in 1936 with ammunition that is positively mild, compared today’s commercial ammunition. You over accelerate the mechanism, and that early CMP Garand Match Federal ammunition did that too, you will have malfunctions. The Korea War era retired Marine (remember once a Marine always a Marine!) that I was scoring, his like new Garand malfunctioned with the CMP ammunition. It jumped the clip during prone rapid. The old Devil Dog was so disgusted he just picked up his gear and left.

So you have to be cognizant of port pressures and bullet weight. The right powders with the right burn rate (think IMR 4895) and bullets less than or equal to 175 grains, velocities 2700 fps or less with 150’s, and for the 175’s, see that box?, that is as fast as you should go with 175’s.



Lets talk about damage to the rifle. The bolt rebounds off the receiver heel. These rifles have been in service since 1936, some of them went through WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and others have been shot so much at Boot Camp that they have lots and lots of rounds through them. Old actions can develop cracks on the sidewalls through metal fatigue. You put enough rounds through one of these things and it will crack. That may be 30,000 rounds of service rifle ammunition, I have an idea of the service life of M14’s, from a Government report, I assume the M1 is similar. Now, lets say you put some heavy bullets, like 190’s and slow powder, like IMR 4350, that bolt is going to rebound off that receiver heel real hard. The fatigue life will be less.

If you have one of those absolutely new SA’s and HRA’s that the CMP is selling for a grand, it may take a long time to crack a receiver heel. But what about one that has already been rebarreled a number of times? Does it make sense to shoot hot loads in them?

I have a couple of pictures of cracked receivers. Cracked receivers are not exactly falling from the sky like snow flakes, but guess what, they happen. The first set were from a Gunbroker Auction. The seller never said what it took to crack the receiver.









This was posted on the old jouster site, the text and pictures are gone, except for the copies I kept.
This guy had his receiver crack withHXP69, CMP Greek ammunition.



Like the guys who hot load M1891’s, M1893’s, and shoot Spanish M1916 conversions in 308 Win, hey its your rifle, do what you want.

Its a free world, believe what you want.
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Last edited by Slamfire; January 4, 2012 at 09:28 AM.
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Old January 4, 2012, 04:29 PM   #36
AK103K
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Not to add to the scare, but this just showed up on THR...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn0KB...layer_embedded


She mentions using "newer" ammo, whatever that means. There was a malfunction of some sort just prior to the failure.
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Old January 4, 2012, 05:39 PM   #37
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Odd that it took so many posts until Slamfire got it right:
It's not how ""hot"" the round is, it's the port pressure. If the pressure at the gas port is too low, the rifle will not function.
Too high, and you can bend the op rod.
That is why reloaders use only a few powders for the M1, 4895 being the original.

And slamfires have to do with:
Primer cup thickness
Primer seating depth (a high primer is a real problem)
Firing pin legnth,
and method of loading - ever notice how much slower the bolt moves when loading from a clip than when you just chamber a round and let it fly forward.

I wonder how often the recoil springs where changed in the M1's that cracked? I recall seeing one that was 3" shorter than a new spring. I'll bet that was tough on the receiver.
I have been shooting M1's for 50 years, with caution. In fact, I have been shooting the same M1 for 50 years!
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Old January 4, 2012, 05:55 PM   #38
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So bottomline...if I get an M1A SOCOM 16 will I have problems shooting commercial ammo/modern hunting rounds? I don't plan on reloading and want to be able to shoot both surplus and commercial hunting ammo.
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Old January 5, 2012, 12:20 AM   #39
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See post #11 of this thread

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=473555

The M1A has a shorter op-rod than the M1, and the gas system is a little different. However, the bolt is identical to the M1 Garand. So, perhaps the bent op rod is less likely, but slamfires are still a concern.

IMO, if you shoot factory .308 in a M1A, you won't have case resizing or high primer issues. That leaves single round loading, which should be done from a magazine or use some other practice to slow bolt velocity.

Also, if you shoot 190gr bullets, you might want to check on an adjustable gas plug for the M1A

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/699...eel-parkerized

You don't read about them as often as the M1 Garand type, but they exist, and for the same purpose.

Bottom line (borrowing your phrase) - Gas guns aren't as forgiving of load variation as other actions.
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Old January 5, 2012, 11:03 AM   #40
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Slamfires should be a concern for any weapon with a free floating firing pin.

That includes AR15, AR10's, FAL's, M1 Carbines, SKS, AK47's, MAS 49 series, and the Tavor. There are probably a lot more I just cannot think of them.

Any weapon with a free floating firing pin can slamfire given a sensitive primer.

It is rare, but slamfires happen. They happen more often with commercial primers because shooters are unhappy when their ill maintained and ancient blunderbusses refuse to fire. You can find all the hate threads towards Russian primers, because Russian primers tend to be insensitive. Fine for shooting the Makarov pistol (another firearm with a free floating firing pin) but horrible with old handguns and handguns with weak striker mechanisms. So American manufacturer's have responded by giving us the most sensitive primers on earth. And occasionally, one goes off.


Tavor 21 Slamfire video on youtube.

Notice how many rounds the guy fires. If he had a mechanical problem he would have recurring slamfires, but he did not. When you see the slamfire, notice that the finger is not on the trigger. He was running Federal American Eagle (federal primers) and Winchester ammo. Winchester redesigned their primers in 1999 to make them more sensitive.

This weapon slamfired in battery. The risk with Garands and M1a’s, is that they have often slamfired out of battery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu8Dwj7Ey8k
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Old January 5, 2012, 11:33 AM   #41
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So I have a Mosin-Nagant (floating pin)? which I have been shooting last year (love it) and about to order an M1 Garand.

With proper ammo, occasional recreational use, do I have to be concerned with this slamfire issue.

You all have me scared now to buy one.

The rifle seems like a jem of a gun with much history attached and I want one before they are all gone.

Last edited by bitttorrrent; January 6, 2012 at 12:02 AM.
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Old January 5, 2012, 02:42 PM   #42
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Quote:
Quote:
Not to add to the scare, but this just showed up on THR...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn0KB...layer_embedded


She mentions using "newer" ammo, whatever that means. There was a malfunction of some sort just prior to the failure.
Awsome...

Does anyone know exactly what happened? In the comments she seems to imply that maybe the bolt didn't go back to battery.
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Old January 5, 2012, 03:15 PM   #43
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No, apparently, their still trying to hash it out.
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Old January 5, 2012, 05:00 PM   #44
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Ammo for Garand Milsurp.

I am ignorant of the reloading criteria for the this question. I bought a refurbished Garand and was in the same quandary.........as far as what ammo to use. I came upon another thread (milsurps.com) which explained the issue and suggested which to use and I quote.

"Gus Fisher, who is a retired USMC armourer and currently services rifles for the National Match competitions at Camp Perry, Ohio. Gus's advice was to use the American Eagle FMJ 150-gr. load, which he has used frequently with no problems. His other preferred load was the Federal Gold Match 168-gr. FMJBT load, which was designed for the Garand but is very expensive. He had no opinion on the Remington-UMC or Winchester 150-gr. loads.

The crux of the matter here is the burning speed of the powder. The American Eagle, as well as the Winchester and UMC loads, equals the ballistics for those companies' 150-gr. hunting loads, which seem to use powder of the wrong burning speed for the Garand. However, Gus Fisher acknowledged that the American Eagle was a bit hotter than the military loads, but still caused no problems such as bent op rods, etc. He had no opinion on the Remington-UMC or Winchester 150-gr. loads.
This quote was from a 2007 thread so it may be dated and there may be other ammo manufactures that have stepped forward to service this niche.


I have used the American Eagle FMJ 150gr and have had zero problems......though I have only put about 100 rounds down range.
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Old January 5, 2012, 08:15 PM   #45
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Mossin Nagant (floating pin)?
I don't have a MN, but I believe they are a fairly typical "Mauser-like" action, with a spring-loaded striker that is held in a cocked position by the trigger mechanism after the bolt is lowered.

This is different from the firing pin found in the M1 Garand, M1A (M14 variant) and AR15. These firing pins are not spring-loaded and are, therefore, termed "floating".
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Old January 6, 2012, 12:44 PM   #46
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High primers can be set off in any rifle - just make sure all the primers are set flush or slightly below. "Can" meaning that, if you work the bolt really hard and fast, in theory you could set one off. With a M/N, the ergonomics are such that it is extreamly unlikely.

Don't overthink this stuff - if the primers are at/below flush, load 'em up and have fun!
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