do you ccw fmj?

[Wildalaska]

Dont forget this paragraph which basically states that in New Jersey you need to give up your wallet to anyone who asks. So even if you have a CCW permit, then you still cant use deadly force in most situations...

Thats not what it says. Read it again. And have you read the case law?

WildhmmmmAlaska TM

[JohnH1963]

Dont need to read it. All I know is that its hard to buy a pistol in NJ, impossible to get a CCW and if you let a round fly from that pistol then you better hire the OJ Simpson defense team.

[Playboypenguin]

I am a JHP kind of guy, but I have considered alternating rounds in my carry guns with FMJ.

I do not ever think I will need added penetration, but any of us that have had the pleasure of shooting up old cars can really see why FMJ could be attractive if you needed that extra penetration.

[Hard Ball]

Yes, if its .45ACP because "They all fall to Hard Ball."

[Wildalaska]

Dont need to read it. All I know is that its hard to buy a pistol in NJ, impossible to get a CCW and if you let a round fly from that pistol then you better hire the OJ Simpson defense team.

I see. Well don't let reality get in the way of your beliefs then.

WildicarryfmjinsomegunsAlaska TM

[JohnH1963]

Thanks to youtube and a bunch of bored guys with lots of time on their hands, we can see first hand the results of fmj and hollow point.

Notice how the FMJ goes right through the jug and doesn't seem to knock the jug over. Goes in one end and out the other without upsetting it. The jug could probably be reused with some tape on the holes. Your body is mostly water so can you imagine that fmj going right through the victim and then hitting an innocent?

The hollow-point knocks over the jug and tears it apart making it unusable.

Clearly, the hollow-point is what you want to carry because it indeed has more knock-down power and will upset the tissue a lot more. Its much safer as the bullet has less of a chance of ripping through the victim and killing innocents.

Also, if a man is charging at you. The FMJ isnt going to stop him as well as the hollowpoint. 2-3 FMJs is like 2-3 stabs with an icepick. It will hurt like hell, but it may not stop a charging angry man. Where as 2-3 hollowpoints is going to do a lot more damage and most likely stop that angry man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB2qNYC8AJE

[Wildalaska]

Also, if a man is charging at you. The FMJ isnt going to stop him as well as the hollowpoint.

really? Charge at me then. Let me load up my Colt Defender with ball

WildiforoneseeanyonepointingagunatmeimnotgoingtocarewhathesgotinitAlaska TM

[Brit]

British and Canadian Military 9mm, weighs in at 115-116g, and trots along at 1250FPS plus, out of a Glock 17. Only time I would carry it, third of three magazines.

It punches right through a torso of a big man, front to back, side to side.

You do not get by with a band aid solution most times.

If you feel you live in an area that is dangerous to your health whilst being unarmed. Move. A person who is not afraid of work can find a job.

[VHinch]

Originally Posted by JohnH1963

Clearly, the hollow-point is what you want to carry because it indeed has more knock-down power and will upset the tissue a lot more. Its much safer as the bullet has less of a chance of ripping through the victim and killing innocents

I don't personally carry FMJ. If I just had to, I would not feel underarmed at all, but there are better options out there. That being said, shooting milk jugs and shooting people are two entirely different things. You stand a much greater risk of hitting an innocent bystander by missing your target entirely than you do by overpenetrating your target. I would much rather see someone carrying FMJ that they have actually trained with than buying one box of the latest, greatest JHP and carrying it having no idea how it performs in their weapon.

[Deaf Smith]

I would much rather see someone carrying FMJ that they have actually trained with than buying one box of the latest, greatest JHP and carrying it having no idea how it performs in their weapon.

Amen. I've always felt I'd rather shoot 1000 rounds and keep 10 in the gun than shoot 10 for practice and keep 1000 rounds.

Skill is so much more important than bore size (within reason) or JHP .vs. FMJ or whatever.

[JohnH1963]

The previous youtube video proves that fmj and hollowpoint have different characteristics when they strike objects. The FMJ goes right through the waterjugs, but leaves them intact where you can place tape over the holes and they will still hold water. The hollowpoints blow the jugs apart.

This youtube video is about the battle of Fallujah in which fmj was exclusively used. Look at the part about Sgt Kasal who withstood grenades and several rounds to the legs. He lost 60% of his blood, but still was able to live and fight.

Kasal is one example of a person who was determined to fight. If you come up against someone similiar to Kasal then you better be carrying hollowpoints. You want to blow your attacker apart versus going through them.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv-jzCxv23Y

[VHinch]

Originally Posted by JohnH1963

If you come up against someone similiar to Kasal then you better be carrying hollowpoints. You want to blow your attacker apart versus going through them.

Other than certain underpenetrating rounds (.32 comes to mind, as it's what my wife carries), JHP is superior in a defensive encounter to FMJ. No one is arguing that point with you. What JHP rounds do not do however, is turn your weapon into some magical death ray, despite what you've learned from the movies. I won't ask how many gunshot wounds you've actually seen, as the answer is obvious.

[kitkat]

If you plan on having to shoot into vehicles or barriers to kill than FMJ's will do that job. I once shot up a old pick up at my place. It was a 66 dodge ram 1/2 ton that had been in a roll over so it was more than toasted. I was shooting FMJ 45 auto at the bed of the truck which went through both sheets of meatal on one side and dented the other side or sometimes penitrated the first sheet on the other side of the box. I fired 357 sigs through it and they went through one side but never penetrated the other side of the box. 223 FMJ's cleared everything.

I carry Fedral HST 9mm

[antsi]

Generally prefer JHP.

When I carry .380, I use FMJ because I think penetration may be marginal with JHPs in this caliber. Also, my .380 functions better with FMJ.

That said, I only carry my .380 about 1-2% of the time.

Just my opinion, but I believe it is optimal to carry a caliber that has good penetration and good expansion with JHPs. If circumstances dictate I carry a caliber with marginal power, I prefer to ensure good penetration and give up on expansion.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Blow your attacker apart? Well then, I'd better buy a surplus 5" 38 cal turret from an Iowa class and tow it behind my Corolla.

We are seeing a stream of rather silly rhetoric from folks who need to read up a bit. There are professional level books on wounds. I don't recall seeing anyone blown up from a handgun round.

[Rich Miranda]

Owning a weapon in NJ is hard.

Obtaining a CCW is almost impossible.

JohnH1963 is absolutely correct. I lived there and legal gun ownership is all but impossible.

Wait a minute! If it's so difficult to legally buy guns, then how are the many murders in Camden and Newark, NJ being perpetrated?

Oh, and in my Ruger P90, I use only FMJ because I don't have a JHP that will reliably feed through it. The flat part of the bullet gets stuck on the feed ramp (I think that's the right term). I have only tried one brand so I'll have to try others. Anyway, I do not actually use my P90 as a CCW (come on, it's a 2x4!). I mainly use it as a car gun when I travel (in addition to its primary job as HD gun). I also have my trusty wheelgun with .357 JHPs loaded. Either way, I'm confident that if I hit the target, the threat will be diminished to a survivable level.

[Kline605]

JHP all the time, Speer Gold Dot in .40 cal to be exact.