1851 Navy - Page 2

Smokin_Gun · September 12, 2008, 12:04 AM

Quote:

they are not
worth the money, a steel frame will out last you, but a
brass frame will streeeeeeech on you, but thats my op

I'm jus' curious to know how you tested your theory? How many Brass Frame Colts or Rems have you owned and wore out? If you have, how many rounds or years did it take you?
I know how long they do last with proper loads and care. I'd jus' like to know how your findings differ?

Thanx,

SG

bprevolver · September 29, 2008, 11:12 AM

There has been much confusion about what is called an “Augusta” replica revolver. Uberti or no one else has ever made a replica of the Confederate Augusta revolver. The original Augusta revolvers were copies of the Colt 1851 Navy with steel frames and 12 cylinder stops. What Uberti produced was a brass frame Griswold & Gunnison with Dragoon style barrel(half round). Other manufacturers produced a brass frame revolver with an Octagon barrel. This is what is referred to as the Augusta revolver by Blue Book, just one of numerous questionable entries. The nearest revolver to this brass frame, octagon barrel, 1851 Navy type revolver is the Confederate Schneider & Glassick. To be historically correct it would have to have a plain cylinder(no engraving) and in .36cal. They were produced in .44cal. as well. Some of the manufacturers of the Schneider & Glassick are Pietta, Armi San Marco, Armi San Paolo, and Investarms. There are many, many of these revolvers in all variations distributed by distributors who marked their guns. This is was makes them collectable.

mykeal · September 29, 2008, 02:11 PM

Ok, now I'm confused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'bprevolver"

Other manufacturers produced a brass frame revolver with an Octagon barrel. This is what is referred to as the Augusta revolver by Blue Book, just one of numerous questionable entries.

Is your point that the Blue Book erroneously named the Uberti brass framed .44 cal half round barrel, or that Uberti misnamed their product? Or that Blue Book listed other manufacturer's products under the Uberti name? Just what are you saying here? Is the Blue Book entry under Uberti correct as to the Griswold and Gunnison product?

bprevolver · October 5, 2008, 03:51 PM

Uberti made replicas of the brass frame Griswold & Gunnison Confederate revolver, Dragoon style half round barrel. They did not make a brass frame Schneider & Glassick octagon barrel revolver. This is what Blue Book refers to as an Augusta revolver.

Fingers McGee · October 31, 2008, 11:25 PM

Here's an Augusta being auctioned in Dec:

http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...=45&iid=227179

This thred got me curious, so I got my copy of Firearms of the Confederacy out and did a little memory refreshing.

FM

GNLaFrance · November 3, 2008, 01:05 AM

Can the frame be battered and "stretched" by shooting full-power loads (and oversize balls will help too)? Sure it can. The real question is, are you willing to spend the copious amounts of time and money for lead, powder and caps, and the time cleaning and maintaining it in shooting condition, to fire the thousands of rounds needed to get it to that point? I doubt it. The frame battering and stretching is certainly possible, but for all practical purposes no one needs to worry about it. For $75 you got a good deal and a nice fun gun. Pay no attention to the gloom-and-doomers. Enjoy it!

mykeal · November 3, 2008, 06:00 AM

It certainly does NOT take 'thousands of rounds'. And it's not 'gloom and doom' to warn against abuse.

poko · November 3, 2008, 10:02 AM

Smokin Gun, I sent you a PM.

Smokin_Gun · November 3, 2008, 05:23 PM

Poko where's that thread you speak of???

SG

CSA Schnieder & Glassick

My new custom made SGsHawk by Thumper, one a the Old Coots at voy.com/60048/ our Blacksmith of the bunch.

poko · November 3, 2008, 05:38 PM

SG, sent you an email of the post.

long rider · November 3, 2008, 06:58 PM

Well put mykeal, this france does not have much knowledge
on bp pistols, i think we all know that a brass frame pistol
will not out last a steel frame, that was my point, and it
does not take countless rounds to put it out of shape,
i put two brass frame revolvers out of shape by only 25grns
bp and 454 rb, all i was saying that a steel frame will out last
a brass frame, steel is worth the xtra bucks for years of fun

Smokin_Gun · November 3, 2008, 07:00 PM

2008-09-06, 02:42 AM

Oquirrh, I got a 2001 [BP] Pietta .44 brasser $125 shipped and an Armi San Paolo(ASP) before the name changed to Euroarms 1986[AP] 5" 1851 Navy .36 $150 shipped. Good condition.

Others too just ask,

SG

.44 Pietta
[IMG]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/09-03-08BOArmsport 1551 Navy .44 steel $160 shipped

1862 Police .36 5.5"bbl $250 shipped

All are in good stasy.

SG

ABOVE^^^^^

Thank you Admin

GNLaFrance · November 3, 2008, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykeal

It certainly does NOT take 'thousands of rounds'.

Fine, then let me modify that to, "It takes several times more rounds than your typical shooter will put through a typical BP revolver." Happy now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykeal

And it's not 'gloom and doom' to warn against abuse.

Movement of the goalposts noted.

Hawg · November 4, 2008, 05:18 AM

I don't know how many rounds it would take. Never fooled with one. Never saw one or a pic of one with a stretched frame but I have seen pics of a few of them with the imprint of the cylinder ratchet deeply imbedded in the recoil shield. Don't know how many rounds it took or the loads used but it's enough to keep me away from any .44 with a brass frame. There must be a logical reason why no original .44's were made with brass frames and I suspect it's because they knew they wouldn't hold up.

Hoss Fly · November 4, 2008, 07:35 PM

Wat Hawg said- Stay away from brass framed 44's UNLESS you'll just shoot it ocasionally with lite - moderate loads

pohill · November 4, 2008, 09:31 PM

This is the recoil shield on an older Spiller & Burr that I have. I have no idea what kind of a load was used or for how long to do this damage (and this is only .36) The 2nd pic is a High Standard Griswold & Gunnison .36. I use 15 grs of BP.

timgd · November 4, 2008, 09:55 PM

I don't know about stretching a brass frame but I destroyed a wedge and deformed the slot in a steel framed .36 cal with heavy loads.

September 29, 2008, 11:12 AM	#27
bprevolver Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 141	Augusta Revolver or Schneider & Grassick? There has been much confusion about what is called an “Augusta” replica revolver. Uberti or no one else has ever made a replica of the Confederate Augusta revolver. The original Augusta revolvers were copies of the Colt 1851 Navy with steel frames and 12 cylinder stops. What Uberti produced was a brass frame Griswold & Gunnison with Dragoon style barrel(half round). Other manufacturers produced a brass frame revolver with an Octagon barrel. This is what is referred to as the Augusta revolver by Blue Book, just one of numerous questionable entries. The nearest revolver to this brass frame, octagon barrel, 1851 Navy type revolver is the Confederate Schneider & Glassick. To be historically correct it would have to have a plain cylinder(no engraving) and in .36cal. They were produced in .44cal. as well. Some of the manufacturers of the Schneider & Glassick are Pietta, Armi San Marco, Armi San Paolo, and Investarms. There are many, many of these revolvers in all variations distributed by distributors who marked their guns. This is was makes them collectable.

October 5, 2008, 03:51 PM	#29
bprevolver Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 141	Uberti Brass Frame Revolvers Uberti made replicas of the brass frame Griswold & Gunnison Confederate revolver, Dragoon style half round barrel. They did not make a brass frame Schneider & Glassick octagon barrel revolver. This is what Blue Book refers to as an Augusta revolver.

October 31, 2008, 11:25 PM	#30
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Augusta Revolver listed in Rock Island Auction Here's an Augusta being auctioned in Dec: http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...=45&iid=227179 This thred got me curious, so I got my copy of Firearms of the Confederacy out and did a little memory refreshing. FM __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

November 3, 2008, 01:05 AM	#31
GNLaFrance Member Join Date: June 29, 2008 Location: Near Baltimore, the Soviet Socialist Democratic People's Republic of Maryland Posts: 81	Can the frame be battered and "stretched" by shooting full-power loads (and oversize balls will help too)? Sure it can. The real question is, are you willing to spend the copious amounts of time and money for lead, powder and caps, and the time cleaning and maintaining it in shooting condition, to fire the thousands of rounds needed to get it to that point? I doubt it. The frame battering and stretching is certainly possible, but for all practical purposes no one needs to worry about it. For $75 you got a good deal and a nice fun gun. Pay no attention to the gloom-and-doomers. Enjoy it! __________________ Guy N. LaFrance Collector of Curios & Relics, Maryland Designated Collector Maryland Shall Issue, GOA, NRA, SAF, JPFO Grand Army of the Frontier, National Congress of Old West Shootists

November 3, 2008, 05:23 PM	#34
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Poko where's that thread you speak of??? SG CSA Schnieder & Glassick My new custom made SGsHawk by Thumper, one a the Old Coots at voy.com/60048/ our Blacksmith of the bunch. __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

November 3, 2008, 06:00 AM	#32
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	It certainly does NOT take 'thousands of rounds'. And it's not 'gloom and doom' to warn against abuse.

November 3, 2008, 10:02 AM	#33
poko Member Join Date: December 16, 2007 Posts: 22	Smokin Gun, I sent you a PM.

November 3, 2008, 05:38 PM	#35
poko Member Join Date: December 16, 2007 Posts: 22	SG, sent you an email of the post.

November 3, 2008, 06:58 PM	#36
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	Well put mykeal, this france does not have much knowledge on bp pistols, i think we all know that a brass frame pistol will not out last a steel frame, that was my point, and it does not take countless rounds to put it out of shape, i put two brass frame revolvers out of shape by only 25grns bp and 454 rb, all i was saying that a steel frame will out last a brass frame, steel is worth the xtra bucks for years of fun __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

November 3, 2008, 07:00 PM	#37
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Please Delete My post in 51 Navy 2008-09-06, 02:42 AM Oquirrh, I got a 2001 [BP] Pietta .44 brasser $125 shipped and an Armi San Paolo(ASP) before the name changed to Euroarms 1986[AP] 5" 1851 Navy .36 $150 shipped. Good condition. Others too just ask, SG .44 Pietta [IMG]http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/Smokin_Gun/09-03-08BOArmsport 1551 Navy .44 steel $160 shipped 1862 Police .36 5.5"bbl $250 shipped All are in good stasy. SG ABOVE^^^^^ Thank you Admin __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php Last edited by Smokin_Gun; November 3, 2008 at 07:04 PM. Reason: 2008-09-06, 02:42 AM

November 4, 2008, 05:18 AM	#39
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,193	I don't know how many rounds it would take. Never fooled with one. Never saw one or a pic of one with a stretched frame but I have seen pics of a few of them with the imprint of the cylinder ratchet deeply imbedded in the recoil shield. Don't know how many rounds it took or the loads used but it's enough to keep me away from any .44 with a brass frame. There must be a logical reason why no original .44's were made with brass frames and I suspect it's because they knew they wouldn't hold up.

November 4, 2008, 07:35 PM	#40
Hoss Fly Junior member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: East Texas Posts: 849	Wat Hawg said- Stay away from brass framed 44's UNLESS you'll just shoot it ocasionally with lite - moderate loads

November 4, 2008, 09:31 PM	#41
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	This is the recoil shield on an older Spiller & Burr that I have. I have no idea what kind of a load was used or for how long to do this damage (and this is only .36) The 2nd pic is a High Standard Griswold & Gunnison .36. I use 15 grs of BP.

November 4, 2008, 09:55 PM	#42
timgd Member Join Date: July 14, 2008 Location: SF bay area Posts: 85	I don't know about stretching a brass frame but I destroyed a wedge and deformed the slot in a steel framed .36 cal with heavy loads.