Surviving Disaster: Mall Shooting - Full episode - Page 2

jon_in_wv · October 17, 2009, 09:56 AM

I TRIED to watch it. It was a bit out there for me. I do agree I would rather see that than the, "lie there and play dead" tactic that most people seem to try. IT didn't work well in VT. Personally, I think most people should just run like the wind. Chances are if I'm at the mall I'm with my daughter. We are going to run, if we are cornered THEN I'll fight. Like a good citizen I do carry a concealed weapon. Did he mention CCW in his show?

I did see where his "silencer" covered the entire front sight then he gives a speech about sight alignment and sight picture. Also, if the scenario is that there is an ACTIVE shooter, who cares about the silencer? Why would a gunshot tip off the other bad guys when they have apparently been actively shooting? I probably missed something, I only watched bits and pieces.

Dragon55 · October 17, 2009, 10:34 AM

Yes the time it took to make the silencer which interrupts sight picture was a huge waste of time.

With the power off I can't believe they kept trying to get to the freight elevator which WOULD NOT have had power... except on TV.

I'm kind of selfish I guess but I would rather make my way on my own instead of in a group.

jon_in_wv · October 17, 2009, 02:57 PM

One thing to remember in almost any building is that most non-load bearing walls are simply sheetrock and its a simple matter to break from one room to another. This may help you circumvent locked doors or to access outer doors or hallways.

KLRANGL · October 18, 2009, 11:29 AM

Im still trying to get over the fact that the AKs changed from blank firers for the action scenes, to airsofts for the "discussion" scenes... that always irks me for some reason...

I think we need to realize that there will never really be a show that could capture everything you could do in a scenario such as this. First off, it needs to be dramatized so people will watch it. Second, there is never enough time in one episode to cover it all...
Shows like this are just fun to watch with your buddies at night with some beers, and to pick up the occasional tip.
I mean, I was certainly entertained

Double Naught Spy · October 18, 2009, 12:42 PM

I apparently didn't have enough beers.

Naterstein · October 18, 2009, 03:41 PM

I hate these threads.

Mannlicher · October 18, 2009, 06:59 PM

In the mall, or out and about, I carry. If more folks did, there would be a lot less mall crime.

Metford · October 18, 2009, 08:01 PM

Yeah, I picked up on the airsoft guns. You had one burly laminated stock in one scene, and a shiny plastic one in the next. They also thanked Airsoft GI in the credits.

Glenn E. Meyer · October 19, 2009, 10:10 AM

Actually, playing dead worked for some people at VT. One guy who charged Cho was shot to pieces.

That being said, I've made myself clear on banning carry at schools, malls, etc.

I've set my recorder for this when it comes on again. Can't wait.

jon_in_wv · October 19, 2009, 05:48 PM

Some yes, but he did shoot several that were playing dead, and then quit playing. I can't help but think if they had ran thy might have faired better. I would rather die on my feet trying.

Double Naught Spy · October 20, 2009, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Some yes, but he did shoot several that were playing dead, and then quit playing. I can't help but think if they had ran thy might have faired better. I would rather die on my feet trying.

He also shot some that were fully ambulatory and trying to move about.

As Glenn noted, some played dead and survived, some completely unscathed. Contrary to what you might think, playing dead is a form of trying where you try to not look like an immediate target that needs to be shot. Many of those people were playing dead because they were trapped in their classrooms. I guess you might have a chance to survive by running laps around the inside of the classroom as Cho took shots at you as you tried to avoid being shot, but the tactic may or may not have been any better than playing dead.

Klebold and Harris apparently made a point out of shooting those who ran.

Charles Whitman made a point out of shooting those who were moving about, including those helping downed people. He also shot those who were attempting to hide from him. He apparently did not repeatedly shoot those that were down, however.

There are many strategies to survive a shooting. Each has its benefits and each has its detractions. Hiding in plain sight by playing dead so as to not draw attention to yourself is one way to try to succeed. Of course, if you are trapped inside a building with a frustrated shooter such as Cho or the Luby's shooter, then you may wish to pursue other options.

123kiwi · October 20, 2009, 01:56 AM

And now Gecko45 doesnt seem like such a crazy

smince · October 21, 2009, 08:33 AM

I watched the episode again. It appears watching it in slow motion, that the sight tower just may be slightly above the make-shift 'silencer'. I'm not 100% sure, though.

One of the commentators in this episode, John Giduk, said if you are in this situation, you need to transfer your hatred for anyone you've ever had to the terrorist to make killing them easier. Maybe my mindset is different (I hope so, anyway), but if someone is trying to kill me and my family, I'm not going to need to transfer hatred to them.

I going to transfer my rounds to them

ezenbrowntown · October 21, 2009, 01:51 PM

Most of what I saw wrong has already been covered, so I won't repeat myself. What I found odd, was the moving down the hall and the "sniper" didn't see them. Where the hell was he watching? LOL. Secondly, even if a "silencer" was required (which it wasn't), sending a guy out in the middle of the aisle, making his shoes squeak and bringing back a rustling shopping bag, is a quick way to get shot.

We discussed this in another forum, and I'll say what I said over there. My first objective would be to hide. Even I was armed, I'm getting cover and hiding. Unloading at one armed gunman will just draw attention of the other gunmen. Hiding isn't always the best scenario, but in this case it's perfect. Large mall, dimly lit. Unless you set the place on fire, you probably aren't going to find me. The only way I'm going after the gunman is if they are close enough to find me or someone I love. We used to scare each other when I worked for a large retail store after the store closed. Even with people looking for you, you're going to be really hard to find if you ever played hide and seek as a kid.

Let's assume you do somehow end up with a rifle (also unlikely). I wouldn't be headed back through the middle of the mall. I'd go back to that chained door they couldn't get through earlier. Granted a single rifle round may not take off a lock, but I bet a 20 to 30 round magazine of that AK would do the trick just fine. The only way I'm going out in the middle of that mall is if the rest of the mall is on fire.

MLeake · October 21, 2009, 02:01 PM

... with regard to the lock, check out a Mythbusters episode about Hollywood and firearms. One of the tests they do is to use handguns, a shotgun, and a .30-06 against padlocks and door locks.

The handguns didn't do the trick.

The 12ga slug and the .30-06 both blew the crap out of the locks, and the door frames.

Safety note: The Mythbusters crew stuck the weapon barrels through holes in a big, plexi-glass wall in order to shoot the locks. IE they were shielded against shrapnel. May not be an option in the mall scenario, but do realize stuff may blow back your way. (Still, beats getting trapped with 9 or 10 armed BG's).

ezenbrowntown · October 21, 2009, 02:12 PM

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot5_3.htm

In regards to the lock. Had this same discussion in the other forum. A rifle will penetrate a lock. One round will not disengage the lock, but I'd be willing to bet with 20 or 30 I can make shredded cheese of that lock.

armoredman · October 21, 2009, 02:22 PM

And, in referance, just a few minutes ago CNN ran a story about a terror suspect arrested who was planning an attack on a US mall. How interesting the CNN "expert", in between ranting "assault weapons" are too easy to get in the US, he made mention a mall is full of "thousands of unarmed people".

October 17, 2009, 09:56 AM	#26
jon_in_wv Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2004 Posts: 670	I TRIED to watch it. It was a bit out there for me. I do agree I would rather see that than the, "lie there and play dead" tactic that most people seem to try. IT didn't work well in VT. Personally, I think most people should just run like the wind. Chances are if I'm at the mall I'm with my daughter. We are going to run, if we are cornered THEN I'll fight. Like a good citizen I do carry a concealed weapon. Did he mention CCW in his show? I did see where his "silencer" covered the entire front sight then he gives a speech about sight alignment and sight picture. Also, if the scenario is that there is an ACTIVE shooter, who cares about the silencer? Why would a gunshot tip off the other bad guys when they have apparently been actively shooting? I probably missed something, I only watched bits and pieces. __________________ Why has INTEGRITY become such a rare commodity?

October 17, 2009, 10:34 AM	#27
Dragon55 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Location: East Tennessee Posts: 811	Yes the time it took to make the silencer which interrupts sight picture was a huge waste of time. With the power off I can't believe they kept trying to get to the freight elevator which WOULD NOT have had power... except on TV. I'm kind of selfish I guess but I would rather make my way on my own instead of in a group. __________________ sailing ... A way to spend lots of money and go real S L O W

October 17, 2009, 02:57 PM	#28
jon_in_wv Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2004 Posts: 670	One thing to remember in almost any building is that most non-load bearing walls are simply sheetrock and its a simple matter to break from one room to another. This may help you circumvent locked doors or to access outer doors or hallways. __________________ Why has INTEGRITY become such a rare commodity?

October 18, 2009, 11:29 AM	#29
KLRANGL Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2008 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 958	Im still trying to get over the fact that the AKs changed from blank firers for the action scenes, to airsofts for the "discussion" scenes... that always irks me for some reason... I think we need to realize that there will never really be a show that could capture everything you could do in a scenario such as this. First off, it needs to be dramatized so people will watch it. Second, there is never enough time in one episode to cover it all... Shows like this are just fun to watch with your buddies at night with some beers, and to pick up the occasional tip. I mean, I was certainly entertained __________________ And it's Killer Angel... as in the book

October 18, 2009, 12:42 PM	#30
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	I apparently didn't have enough beers. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

October 18, 2009, 03:41 PM	#31
Naterstein Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2009 Location: Central KY Posts: 151	I hate these threads.

October 18, 2009, 06:59 PM	#32
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,209	In the mall, or out and about, I carry. If more folks did, there would be a lot less mall crime. __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan

October 18, 2009, 08:01 PM	#33
Metford Junior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 9	Yeah, I picked up on the airsoft guns. You had one burly laminated stock in one scene, and a shiny plastic one in the next. They also thanked Airsoft GI in the credits.

October 19, 2009, 10:10 AM	#34
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Actually, playing dead worked for some people at VT. One guy who charged Cho was shot to pieces. That being said, I've made myself clear on banning carry at schools, malls, etc. I've set my recorder for this when it comes on again. Can't wait. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

October 19, 2009, 05:48 PM	#35
jon_in_wv Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2004 Posts: 670	Some yes, but he did shoot several that were playing dead, and then quit playing. I can't help but think if they had ran thy might have faired better. I would rather die on my feet trying. __________________ Why has INTEGRITY become such a rare commodity?

October 20, 2009, 01:56 AM	#37
123kiwi Member Join Date: March 23, 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 85	And now Gecko45 doesnt seem like such a crazy

October 21, 2009, 08:33 AM	#38
smince Junior member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Location: Northeast Alabama Posts: 2,580	I watched the episode again. It appears watching it in slow motion, that the sight tower just may be slightly above the make-shift 'silencer'. I'm not 100% sure, though. One of the commentators in this episode, John Giduk, said if you are in this situation, you need to transfer your hatred for anyone you've ever had to the terrorist to make killing them easier. Maybe my mindset is different (I hope so, anyway), but if someone is trying to kill me and my family, I'm not going to need to transfer hatred to them. I going to transfer my rounds to them Last edited by smince; October 21, 2009 at 09:30 PM.

October 21, 2009, 01:51 PM	#39
ezenbrowntown Member Join Date: October 21, 2008 Posts: 51	Most of what I saw wrong has already been covered, so I won't repeat myself. What I found odd, was the moving down the hall and the "sniper" didn't see them. Where the hell was he watching? LOL. Secondly, even if a "silencer" was required (which it wasn't), sending a guy out in the middle of the aisle, making his shoes squeak and bringing back a rustling shopping bag, is a quick way to get shot. We discussed this in another forum, and I'll say what I said over there. My first objective would be to hide. Even I was armed, I'm getting cover and hiding. Unloading at one armed gunman will just draw attention of the other gunmen. Hiding isn't always the best scenario, but in this case it's perfect. Large mall, dimly lit. Unless you set the place on fire, you probably aren't going to find me. The only way I'm going after the gunman is if they are close enough to find me or someone I love. We used to scare each other when I worked for a large retail store after the store closed. Even with people looking for you, you're going to be really hard to find if you ever played hide and seek as a kid. Let's assume you do somehow end up with a rifle (also unlikely). I wouldn't be headed back through the middle of the mall. I'd go back to that chained door they couldn't get through earlier. Granted a single rifle round may not take off a lock, but I bet a 20 to 30 round magazine of that AK would do the trick just fine. The only way I'm going out in the middle of that mall is if the rest of the mall is on fire.

October 21, 2009, 02:01 PM	#40
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	ezenbrowntown... ... with regard to the lock, check out a Mythbusters episode about Hollywood and firearms. One of the tests they do is to use handguns, a shotgun, and a .30-06 against padlocks and door locks. The handguns didn't do the trick. The 12ga slug and the .30-06 both blew the crap out of the locks, and the door frames. Safety note: The Mythbusters crew stuck the weapon barrels through holes in a big, plexi-glass wall in order to shoot the locks. IE they were shielded against shrapnel. May not be an option in the mall scenario, but do realize stuff may blow back your way. (Still, beats getting trapped with 9 or 10 armed BG's).

October 21, 2009, 02:12 PM	#41
ezenbrowntown Member Join Date: October 21, 2008 Posts: 51	http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot5_3.htm In regards to the lock. Had this same discussion in the other forum. A rifle will penetrate a lock. One round will not disengage the lock, but I'd be willing to bet with 20 or 30 I can make shredded cheese of that lock.

October 21, 2009, 02:22 PM	#42
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,299	And, in referance, just a few minutes ago CNN ran a story about a terror suspect arrested who was planning an attack on a US mall. How interesting the CNN "expert", in between ranting "assault weapons" are too easy to get in the US, he made mention a mall is full of "thousands of unarmed people".