new sight for innacurate revolver?

skeetman02 · August 22, 2016, 11:25 PM

after recently receiving a rock island (armscor) m200, i had an issue with it shooting nearly a foot to the left. unfortunately for me, the sights are nonadjustable. this revolver does not have any rails for sights, however i wondered if it would be possible to attach any form of sight to it. if there's anything i could do i would appreciate any ideas. thanks.

TimSr · August 23, 2016, 07:30 AM

At what distance?

Are you an experienced shooter?

Are you shooting from a rest?

Has another skilled shooter verified your results?

If the gun is that far off at typical pistol range distances (50ft or less) then either something is wrong with it, and it needs to go back to the mfg, or there is a problem with the way you are shooting or sighting.

skeetman02 · August 23, 2016, 10:49 AM

the distance i shot wen i noticed the flaw was 50 feet away, however to check if it was just me, as I am not heavily experienced in the handgun category, i fired from a rest at 10 yards onto paper and sure enough it was the revolver. I also had another shooter use the firearm, and the revolver still shot far to the left. The revolver was just sent back to the manufacturer, but i don't have much hope on them fixing it. So if the problem persists, I would still appreciate any suggestions. thanks.

DPris · August 23, 2016, 11:15 AM

The barrel could possibly be turned slightly to correct windage, cheapest way.

The rear sight groove in the top-strap could be milled on one side to the opposite direction the gun's shooting.

I'm not aware of any practical way to "attach" a sight to it.
Denis

Driftwood Johnson · August 23, 2016, 02:26 PM

Howdy

I wish you had asked here before you sent it back.

You mention you are not 'heavily experienced in the handgun category'.

Are you right handed? It is very common for an inexperienced handgun shooter to push the shots to the left. It usually means too much finger on the trigger. The proper way to shoot a handgun is by pulling the trigger with the pad of the trigger finger. It is usually more comfortable, and feels more natural to pull the trigger by putting it in the crease of the first joint of the trigger finger. This usually winds up pushing the gun to the left, which is where the shots wind up. Using the pad of the finger allows the shooter to pull the trigger more straight back without pushing the gun to the side.

Even if you gave it to another shooter to try, if he is not used to handguns with non-adjustable sights, he may be making the same mistake. Shooters who are used to adjustable sights often compensate for poor trigger technique by adjusting the rear sight to the right to compensate for pushing the gun to the left. The first time they shoot a handgun with fixed sights, they often push the shots to the left.

rebs · August 23, 2016, 03:35 PM

If the rear sight in in a dove tail you can drift it over and see if that corrects the POI.

DPris · August 23, 2016, 04:31 PM

It isn't.
Denis

reddog81 · August 23, 2016, 05:22 PM

Anything is possible with enough money however i'm going to guess any quality modification is going to cost much more than that gun is worth.

I'd try starting at 7 yards and practicing until you get 100% comfortable with the trigger. There's a decent chance the trigger is heavier than you're used to and pulling shots.

SIGSHR · August 24, 2016, 02:38 PM

There used to be the "Wondersight" for 4 & 5 screw S&Ws, the sight attached using the screw hole at the top of the side plate, yours would probably have to be drilled and tapped. Charlie Askins mentioned making a tool to adjust the front sights of the Colt New Service 38 Specials issued to the Border Patrol though he gave no details. As others have stated the barrel probably needs to be turned slightly.

Driftwood Johnson · August 24, 2016, 06:56 PM

Howdy Again

Turning the barrel slightly is a good solution on a Colt Single Action Army, or replicas, because the barrel is a straight tube with nothing but the threads holding it in place, and there is no ejector housing or stud on the underside of the barrel.

I am not familiar with the revolver in question, but from photos on the web it appears to be a rough copy of a Colt double action revolver, with an extractor rod housing forged onto the underside of the barrel. Not an ideal barrel for turning. On top of that, in the photos I saw, it appears the barrel is pinned. So unless you want to pay somebody to weld some metal where the pin is, and redrill for a pin, which would be pretty difficult to get lined up properly, turning the barrel is not an option.

Besides, I am betting that the inaccuracy is because of inexperience with fixed sight revolvers, and not the fault of the gun.

DPris · August 24, 2016, 09:28 PM

If turning the barrel isn't feasible, milling a very slight amount of material to widen the topstrap sight channel in the opposite direction the gun's shooting to would be the next bet.

Or possibly a babbit.
I wouldn't put much money into that gun, but if the factory can't fix it for you, then you'll need to decide whether to spend some on it, or live with it as it is.
Denis

g.willikers · August 25, 2016, 08:46 AM

It could be the barrel itself, too.
I once had a .22 rifle that just about shot around corners.
Either the barrel wasn't straight or the rifling wasn't.
Can't remember which as it was decades ago.
At fifteen yards I had to aim far to the right to hit anything.
Just a thought.

T. O'Heir · August 26, 2016, 12:24 PM

"...sent back to the manufacturer..." Armscor is in The Philippines. Highly unlikely their U.S. shop will do anything. Certainly won't put an adjustable sight on unless you give 'em money.
However, it's entirely doable. The M200 is a Smith clone. Requires milling to do it. That will most likely cost more than the $275 MSRP.
50 feet is a long way. What did it do at 20?
Look at this before you do anything dramatic. http://www.targetshooting.ca/docs/Pi...t_Analysis.pdf

TimSr · August 26, 2016, 02:22 PM

I just got one for my son's birthday gift. We haven't tried it yet. They are a Colt clone, kind of, but not exactly. The grips are interchangeable, and that's about it.

The trigger pull, both single and double action is really nice. OP said another shooter got same results. Rear sight is milled in like my snub.

jdscholer · August 26, 2016, 08:28 PM

Seems like I read a post by a guy who worked at a S&W service center where they would simply use a lead hammer blow to tweak the barrel/frame.

Anyone else hear of this? jd

DPris · August 26, 2016, 11:07 PM

The babbit I mentioned earlier.

Common practice in the old days.
Denis

TimSr · August 29, 2016, 09:19 AM

We test drove my son's M200 yesterday. It shot about 3" left at 50'. We can live with that. It also shot high, but we can adjust that with ammo.

skeetman02 · September 17, 2016, 09:34 PM

I finally received the revolver back recently this week, which they had replaced, and to my disappointment the m200 shot even worse. Instead of a consistent tight grouping to the left, it had shot everywhere. I did try some of the suggestions you guys have mentioned, bu to no avail. I guess my onl thing would be to check out the auto loaders. Thanks for the support

Lavan · September 18, 2016, 12:36 AM

Re: lead hammer.
Yes! Back in the 60s a S&W guy attended many police shoots and corrected almost ANY problem with that hammer.
Actually he used lead bars.
Amazing how quickly he could analyse the problem and know exactly where to strike.
Timing took him maybe 3 whacks..

Boncrayon · September 19, 2016, 04:23 PM

You do not need a new sight! It's not the revolver, it is your trigger pull jerk that sends it to the left 7:00 side (if you are left-handed). Try cocking your hammer, and squeezing the trigger with follow through after each fire. You need a full breath of oxygen before each shot, letting out your breath and holding it before you fire. You grip needs to be firm and your thumbs need to be parallel (pointed forward) and LOW on the frame to prevent blast injury to your thumb. Do not cross your thumbs!

August 22, 2016, 11:25 PM	#1
skeetman02 Junior Member Join Date: August 22, 2016 Location: midland, MI Posts: 6	new sight for innacurate revolver? after recently receiving a rock island (armscor) m200, i had an issue with it shooting nearly a foot to the left. unfortunately for me, the sights are nonadjustable. this revolver does not have any rails for sights, however i wondered if it would be possible to attach any form of sight to it. if there's anything i could do i would appreciate any ideas. thanks.

August 25, 2016, 08:46 AM	#12
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	It could be the barrel itself, too. I once had a .22 rifle that just about shot around corners. Either the barrel wasn't straight or the rifling wasn't. Can't remember which as it was decades ago. At fifteen yards I had to aim far to the right to hit anything. Just a thought. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

August 26, 2016, 12:24 PM	#13
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...sent back to the manufacturer..." Armscor is in The Philippines. Highly unlikely their U.S. shop will do anything. Certainly won't put an adjustable sight on unless you give 'em money. However, it's entirely doable. The M200 is a Smith clone. Requires milling to do it. That will most likely cost more than the $275 MSRP. 50 feet is a long way. What did it do at 20? Look at this before you do anything dramatic. http://www.targetshooting.ca/docs/Pi...t_Analysis.pdf __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

August 26, 2016, 08:28 PM	#15
jdscholer Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Jefferson State Posts: 1,197	Seems like I read a post by a guy who worked at a S&W service center where they would simply use a lead hammer blow to tweak the barrel/frame. Anyone else hear of this? jd __________________ "We're all dummies, just in different ways." Old Okie Philosopher

September 19, 2016, 04:23 PM	#20
Boncrayon Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2008 Posts: 920	new sight for inaccurate revolver? You do not need a new sight! It's not the revolver, it is your trigger pull jerk that sends it to the left 7:00 side (if you are left-handed). Try cocking your hammer, and squeezing the trigger with follow through after each fire. You need a full breath of oxygen before each shot, letting out your breath and holding it before you fire. You grip needs to be firm and your thumbs need to be parallel (pointed forward) and LOW on the frame to prevent blast injury to your thumb. Do not cross your thumbs!

August 23, 2016, 07:30 AM	#2
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	At what distance? Are you an experienced shooter? Are you shooting from a rest? Has another skilled shooter verified your results? If the gun is that far off at typical pistol range distances (50ft or less) then either something is wrong with it, and it needs to go back to the mfg, or there is a problem with the way you are shooting or sighting.

August 23, 2016, 10:49 AM	#3
skeetman02 Junior Member Join Date: August 22, 2016 Location: midland, MI Posts: 6	the distance i shot wen i noticed the flaw was 50 feet away, however to check if it was just me, as I am not heavily experienced in the handgun category, i fired from a rest at 10 yards onto paper and sure enough it was the revolver. I also had another shooter use the firearm, and the revolver still shot far to the left. The revolver was just sent back to the manufacturer, but i don't have much hope on them fixing it. So if the problem persists, I would still appreciate any suggestions. thanks.

August 23, 2016, 11:15 AM	#4
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	The barrel could possibly be turned slightly to correct windage, cheapest way. The rear sight groove in the top-strap could be milled on one side to the opposite direction the gun's shooting. I'm not aware of any practical way to "attach" a sight to it. Denis

August 23, 2016, 02:26 PM	#5
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy I wish you had asked here before you sent it back. You mention you are not 'heavily experienced in the handgun category'. Are you right handed? It is very common for an inexperienced handgun shooter to push the shots to the left. It usually means too much finger on the trigger. The proper way to shoot a handgun is by pulling the trigger with the pad of the trigger finger. It is usually more comfortable, and feels more natural to pull the trigger by putting it in the crease of the first joint of the trigger finger. This usually winds up pushing the gun to the left, which is where the shots wind up. Using the pad of the finger allows the shooter to pull the trigger more straight back without pushing the gun to the side. Even if you gave it to another shooter to try, if he is not used to handguns with non-adjustable sights, he may be making the same mistake. Shooters who are used to adjustable sights often compensate for poor trigger technique by adjusting the rear sight to the right to compensate for pushing the gun to the left. The first time they shoot a handgun with fixed sights, they often push the shots to the left.

August 23, 2016, 03:35 PM	#6
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	If the rear sight in in a dove tail you can drift it over and see if that corrects the POI.

August 23, 2016, 04:31 PM	#7
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	It isn't. Denis

August 23, 2016, 05:22 PM	#8
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	Anything is possible with enough money however i'm going to guess any quality modification is going to cost much more than that gun is worth. I'd try starting at 7 yards and practicing until you get 100% comfortable with the trigger. There's a decent chance the trigger is heavier than you're used to and pulling shots.

August 24, 2016, 02:38 PM	#9
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	There used to be the "Wondersight" for 4 & 5 screw S&Ws, the sight attached using the screw hole at the top of the side plate, yours would probably have to be drilled and tapped. Charlie Askins mentioned making a tool to adjust the front sights of the Colt New Service 38 Specials issued to the Border Patrol though he gave no details. As others have stated the barrel probably needs to be turned slightly.

August 24, 2016, 06:56 PM	#10
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy Again Turning the barrel slightly is a good solution on a Colt Single Action Army, or replicas, because the barrel is a straight tube with nothing but the threads holding it in place, and there is no ejector housing or stud on the underside of the barrel. I am not familiar with the revolver in question, but from photos on the web it appears to be a rough copy of a Colt double action revolver, with an extractor rod housing forged onto the underside of the barrel. Not an ideal barrel for turning. On top of that, in the photos I saw, it appears the barrel is pinned. So unless you want to pay somebody to weld some metal where the pin is, and redrill for a pin, which would be pretty difficult to get lined up properly, turning the barrel is not an option. Besides, I am betting that the inaccuracy is because of inexperience with fixed sight revolvers, and not the fault of the gun.

August 24, 2016, 09:28 PM	#11
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	If turning the barrel isn't feasible, milling a very slight amount of material to widen the topstrap sight channel in the opposite direction the gun's shooting to would be the next bet. Or possibly a babbit. I wouldn't put much money into that gun, but if the factory can't fix it for you, then you'll need to decide whether to spend some on it, or live with it as it is. Denis

August 26, 2016, 02:22 PM	#14
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	I just got one for my son's birthday gift. We haven't tried it yet. They are a Colt clone, kind of, but not exactly. The grips are interchangeable, and that's about it. The trigger pull, both single and double action is really nice. OP said another shooter got same results. Rear sight is milled in like my snub.

August 26, 2016, 11:07 PM	#16
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	The babbit I mentioned earlier. Common practice in the old days. Denis

August 29, 2016, 09:19 AM	#17
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	We test drove my son's M200 yesterday. It shot about 3" left at 50'. We can live with that. It also shot high, but we can adjust that with ammo.

September 17, 2016, 09:34 PM	#18
skeetman02 Junior Member Join Date: August 22, 2016 Location: midland, MI Posts: 6	I finally received the revolver back recently this week, which they had replaced, and to my disappointment the m200 shot even worse. Instead of a consistent tight grouping to the left, it had shot everywhere. I did try some of the suggestions you guys have mentioned, bu to no avail. I guess my onl thing would be to check out the auto loaders. Thanks for the support

September 18, 2016, 12:36 AM	#19
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,716	Re: lead hammer. Yes! Back in the 60s a S&W guy attended many police shoots and corrected almost ANY problem with that hammer. Actually he used lead bars. Amazing how quickly he could analyse the problem and know exactly where to strike. Timing took him maybe 3 whacks..