How do manufacturers replace defective guns?

[Rovert]

Not sure if this is the right section, but here goes.

What happens when you send an improperly functioning gun to the manufacturer for repair, and they need to either replace the frame, or the whole gun?

Is there an ATF form or defined procedure they follow to record a serial number replacement or substitution? If it's a gun that was recently purchased (within the last 60 days) would another NCIC check be required?

Just curious, because I have a gun in the shop for nearly three weeks, and if they can't do something about getting it back to me in a month's time, I have half a mind to insist that they just replace it with a new one.

Thanks in advance!

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[pete2]

Ruger replaced my CMD, the gun had to go to a dealer and it has to be transferred just the same as when you buy a gun, 4473 etc. I had to pay the fee of course.

[Ralgha]

Federal law allows guns to be shipped directly between the manufacturer and the consumer for repair or replacement, either direction. Some states may be more restrictive. I've received a replacement Beretta directly at my doorstep, it was great.

[carguychris]

18 USC § 922(a)(2)(A) allows a FFL to return a "replacement firearm of the same kind and type" to a non-licensed person (my emphasis underlined).

(a) It shall be unlawful—

(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that—

(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector...

Per 27 CFR § 478.124(a), no Form 4473 is required when sending a replacement firearm to the same non-licensed person who initially sent in a damaged firearm for "the sole purpose of repair". This allows the replacement to be sent directly to a non-licensed person with no FFL transfer.

(a) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer shall not sell or otherwise dispose, temporarily or permanently, of any firearm to any person, other than another licensee, unless the licensee records the transaction on a firearms transaction record, Form 4473: Provided, That a firearms transaction record, Form 4473, shall not be required to record the disposition made of a firearm delivered to a licensee for the sole purpose of repair or customizing when such firearm or a replacement firearm is returned to the person from whom received.

IIRC a licensed manufacturer is also allowed to destroy a defective or damaged frame that they originally manufactured, and then manufacture an equivalent new frame with the same serial number as a replacement, but I'm having trouble tracking down the legal citation. Stay tuned.

[44 AMP]

IIRC a licensed manufacturer is also allowed to destroy a defective or damaged frame that they originally manufactured, and then manufacture an equivalent new frame with the same serial number as a replacement, but I'm having trouble tracking down the legal citation.

I am in agreement and also don't know the exact spot in the law.

The maker can replace the frame/receiver (ser# part) reapply the original ser#, and legally, it is still the same gun.

There is also a legal provision allowing a repair shop to move the serial # (reapply it in a different location on the gun) if the work to be done would damage/obscure the number in its original location.

I have a gun in the shop for nearly three weeks...

Lots of factors in play here, shipping time, what exactly is wrong with the gun, shop workload, etc. Unless you have some agreement (in writing, hopefully) about turn around time for the repair, you don't have a strong case to demand it be done in what is a convenient time frame, for you.

[NoSecondBest]

I've received replacement handguns from the manufacturer along with a letter detailing what transpired and their disposition of the gun. I took that to the pistol permit clerk in my county and simply took the old gun off my permit and added the new one. It was pretty simple. The new gun came directly to me since I'd sent the defective one back to the manufacturer myself. That was a few years back, but I did it a few times.

[rwilson452]

Here in PA they ship it directly to you as there is no registration list maintained by the state nor are firearms listed on our License to Carry a firearm.

[Doyle]

Here in PA they ship it directly to you as there is no registration list maintained by the state nor are firearms listed on our License to Carry a firearm.

ONLY if they repair the original firearm. If they replace it then the replacement must go through an FFL.

[str8tshot]

I had a replacement gun for a recent purchase. The new gun had to go to a FFL, only because the replacement was a different model. If it had been the same model, they would have sent it straight to me.

[NoSecondBest]

ONLY if they repair the original firearm. If they replace it then the replacement must go through an FFL.

Must be something new. I've received two replacement guns and they came directly to me. Both handguns with different serial numbers. No FFL involved.

[Doyle]

Ruger sent me a replacement and they said they were required to go through an FFL by federal law.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by Doyle

Ruger sent me a replacement and they said they were required to go through an FFL by federal law.

Was it exactly "the same kind and type"? See the excerpt from 18 USC § 922(a)(2)(A) that I posted earlier.

Sometimes, the broken firearm is a long-discontinued model and the parts needed for the repair were used up years ago, or—as is the case with several well-known Rugers—the particular model is considered unsafe or flawed by the manufacturer, and their policies call for it to be replaced with a newer model or heavily modified. In these cases, the manufacturer may not want to end up in a spitting match with the ATF regarding whether the substantially dissimilar replacement gun is "the same kind and type", and is requiring a FFL transfer for CYA purposes.

[Doyle]

Was it exactly "the same kind and type"? See the excerpt from 18 USC § 922(a)(2)(A) that I posted earlier.

No, it was a later model. I just did some looking in the law and couldn't find anything that talked about a "same model rule". There seems to be conflicting application here.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by Doyle

There seems to be conflicting application here.

I can't find any case law or ATF rulings or guidance regarding whether "the same kind and type" per 18 USC § 922(a)(2)(A) means the exact same model or merely a gun of similar configuration and caliber.

I can understand why Ruger would use the more conservative interpretation of the provision in the absence of any definitive guidance.

[Elkins45]

When I blew up my Glock 20 I sent the whole gun back to Glock. What came back to me was 2/3 of my old gun and a new frame with a different serial number. The Glock guy that called me about it told me they reported the original gun to the ATF as distroyed and replaced by the new SN--or something like that.

The gun was sitting on my porch in a brown cardboard box when I came home from work one day. I wasn't sure what it was until I saw the Smyrna, GA return address.

[Gary L. Griffiths]

FWIW, when I wore out the frame on my Kel-Tec P-32 years ago, Kel-Tec replaced it with a new frame with the same serial #.

[guncrank]

Mr carguychris is correct no 4473/FFL is needed for a replacement firearm from a FFL to owner.

Even with a different serial number.