Crimp Grove in Jacketed Bullets

renaissance7697 · March 2, 2006, 08:41 AM

I have been reloading for years...but
I had always used Hard Cast Lead for Pistols (revolvers)..
and Jacketed for Automatics.

I am used to hard cast Lead bullets with definitive and unmistakeable "crimp grooves" (I have always roll crimped my revolver reloads into these grooves)
The Jacketed bullets I used for my automatic loads did not have (or need) crimp grooves because I Taper Crimped them.

I have of late; wandered into the world of "Magnum".
Starting with .44 Magnum (Ruger Super Redhawk w Leupold 4x)

I have been looking in vain for semi-jacketed bullets in 44 Magnum [ 240 grains for a start] with (what I recognize as) crimp grooves for my pistol.

Because they are Magnum and are likely to be going fairly fast ( => 1000 fps); I wanted jacketed to reduce leading.

I see pictures of some (Magnatech and Remington) that appear to have one or more (two in the case of Magnatech) "Knurled Bands" around the semi-jacket ( I guess these are what are often refered to as "soft Point jacketed")

Is this ( the knurled bands) what you are supposed to roll your crimp into?
If more then one.....which one ??

You DO roll crimp into the bullets for Magnum revolver reloads - don't you ??

Am I going to find the same situation when I start looking for .357 Magnum bullets?

I am also going to reload some .44 S&W Special for the Redhawk.
I had intended to use the same 240 semi jacket Bullet ( If I ever find one).

While I am at it....
Is there one single powder "reasonable" to use for the entire range of reloads...
Low end .44 S&W Special ...to HIgh End....and then on through Low end .44 Magnum... up to High End .44 Magnum ??

TIA

Sport45 · March 2, 2006, 09:11 AM

I have of late; wandered into the world of "Magnum".
Starting with .44 Magnum (Ruger Super Redhawk w Leupold 4x)
Nice. I could never handle the wobble magnification of a 4x handgun scope though. I've shot a 2x and that was plenty for me.

I have been looking in vain for semi-jacketed bullets in 44 Magnum [ 240 grains for a start] with (what I recognize as) crimp grooves for my pistol.

Because they are Magnum and are likely to be going fairly fast ( => 1000 fps); I wanted jacketed to reduce leading.
Jacketed is the safe bet, but many shoot cast at velocities to 1400fps.

I see pictures of some (Magnatech and Remington) that appear to have one or more (two in the case of Magnatech) "Knurled Bands" around the semi-jacket ( I guess these are what are often refered to as "soft Point jacketed")

Is this ( the knurled bands) what you are supposed to roll your crimp into?
If more then one.....which one ??
Bullets with two crimp grooves allow them to be used in different cartridges. One groove in this case would be used for .44special while the other is used for .44mag. Use the one that gives the correct overall length. This is common also for 30 caliber bullets which can be used in .30-06 and .308

You DO roll crimp into the bullets for Magnum revolver reloads - don't you ??
Certainly. But only crimp enough to prevent bullet jump. Overcrimp reduces brass life and doesn't help accuracy. Slower powders like H-110 require a firm crimp for good ignition.

Am I going to find the same situation when I start looking for .357 Magnum bullets?
Probably, but 38 caliber bullets seem to be available in many more flavors.

I am also going to reload some .44 S&W Special for the Redhawk.
I had intended to use the same 240 semi jacket Bullet ( If I ever find one).
No problem with that. With fast powders like Titegroup you can load .44special in .44mag brass without problem. Just start a half-grain or so above minimum to compensate for extra case capacity. Expect them to hit way above point of aim at any distance as the slower bullet will ride the bore for more of your recoil reaction.

While I am at it....
Is there one single powder "reasonable" to use for the entire range of reloads...
Low end .44 S&W Special ...to HIgh End....and then on through Low end .44 Magnum... up to High End .44 Magnum ??
No. The .44special loads will need a fast powder (Titegroup, WW231, WST, Bullseye, to name a few). Low end .44mag loads can be had with a fast powder, but the real boomers with heavy bullets will require a slow powder. H-110, WW296, and Lil'gun are top performers for this. A medium-fast powder like Unique might be used for all, but is is a compromise. Heck, you can find a load for Unique for just about every handgun cartridge, but it is not the best load in many.

TIA
I hope this was of some help.

Leftoverdj · March 2, 2006, 09:39 AM

Beautiful job, Sport.

The double cannelures, as Sport said, allow for the use of the same bullet in different cartridges. They also give some flexibility for guns with unusual cylinder or chamber length. Some carbines for pistol calibers allow the bullets to be seated far forward for a substantial increase in case capacity and performance.

It's also been claimed that cannelures can be used to control expansion. I'm not a bullet designer and cannot claim that as a fact, but I have recovered enough bullets that were expanded only forward of a cannelure to suspect that may be true.

renaissance7697 · March 2, 2006, 10:05 AM

Thank you for your:
To the point and thorough answer to ALL of my questions !!

Sport45 · March 2, 2006, 11:08 AM

You're welcome. I'm far from expert with the magnum loads. I sold my 7.5" SBH in .44mag because it just wasn't fun to shoot in full magnum mode and the sights wouldn't adjust down far enough to allow .44spcl loads. I'm sure somebody with more magnum reloading experience will chime in soon to help with the big bang loads.

Northeast Bullet sells cast bullets at reasonable prices and free shipping if you want to go that route. Slug the bore and cylinder throats and select a bullet about .0005" larger than the throats. This won't work if the throats are smaller than the bore which is not uncommon with Rugers. You can contact Northeast through their website and they are very helpful in helping select hardness and lube for your application. The site says they are starting to deal in jacketed bullets, but I don't know what selection they have.

Back when I loaded jacketed bullets in handgun I bought a lot from Montana Gold. They had good prices and free shipping. Graf's and Midway are good places to buy in small quantity to try different bullets. Graf's has a flat rate shipping fee of $3.75 which is very good.

Is this the bullet you are looking for?

March 2, 2006, 08:41 AM	#1
renaissance7697 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2001 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 203	Crimp Grove in Jacketed Bullets I have been reloading for years...but I had always used Hard Cast Lead for Pistols (revolvers).. and Jacketed for Automatics. I am used to hard cast Lead bullets with definitive and unmistakeable "crimp grooves" (I have always roll crimped my revolver reloads into these grooves) The Jacketed bullets I used for my automatic loads did not have (or need) crimp grooves because I Taper Crimped them. I have of late; wandered into the world of "Magnum". Starting with .44 Magnum (Ruger Super Redhawk w Leupold 4x) I have been looking in vain for semi-jacketed bullets in 44 Magnum [ 240 grains for a start] with (what I recognize as) crimp grooves for my pistol. Because they are Magnum and are likely to be going fairly fast ( => 1000 fps); I wanted jacketed to reduce leading. I see pictures of some (Magnatech and Remington) that appear to have one or more (two in the case of Magnatech) "Knurled Bands" around the semi-jacket ( I guess these are what are often refered to as "soft Point jacketed") Is this ( the knurled bands) what you are supposed to roll your crimp into? If more then one.....which one ?? You DO roll crimp into the bullets for Magnum revolver reloads - don't you ?? Am I going to find the same situation when I start looking for .357 Magnum bullets? I am also going to reload some .44 S&W Special for the Redhawk. I had intended to use the same 240 semi jacket Bullet ( If I ever find one). While I am at it.... Is there one single powder "reasonable" to use for the entire range of reloads... Low end .44 S&W Special ...to HIgh End....and then on through Low end .44 Magnum... up to High End .44 Magnum ?? TIA __________________ An Armed Society, Is a Polite Society.

March 2, 2006, 09:11 AM	#2
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	I have of late; wandered into the world of "Magnum". Starting with .44 Magnum (Ruger Super Redhawk w Leupold 4x) Nice. I could never handle the wobble magnification of a 4x handgun scope though. I've shot a 2x and that was plenty for me. I have been looking in vain for semi-jacketed bullets in 44 Magnum [ 240 grains for a start] with (what I recognize as) crimp grooves for my pistol. Because they are Magnum and are likely to be going fairly fast ( => 1000 fps); I wanted jacketed to reduce leading. Jacketed is the safe bet, but many shoot cast at velocities to 1400fps. I see pictures of some (Magnatech and Remington) that appear to have one or more (two in the case of Magnatech) "Knurled Bands" around the semi-jacket ( I guess these are what are often refered to as "soft Point jacketed") Is this ( the knurled bands) what you are supposed to roll your crimp into? If more then one.....which one ?? Bullets with two crimp grooves allow them to be used in different cartridges. One groove in this case would be used for .44special while the other is used for .44mag. Use the one that gives the correct overall length. This is common also for 30 caliber bullets which can be used in .30-06 and .308 You DO roll crimp into the bullets for Magnum revolver reloads - don't you ?? Certainly. But only crimp enough to prevent bullet jump. Overcrimp reduces brass life and doesn't help accuracy. Slower powders like H-110 require a firm crimp for good ignition. Am I going to find the same situation when I start looking for .357 Magnum bullets? Probably, but 38 caliber bullets seem to be available in many more flavors. I am also going to reload some .44 S&W Special for the Redhawk. I had intended to use the same 240 semi jacket Bullet ( If I ever find one). No problem with that. With fast powders like Titegroup you can load .44special in .44mag brass without problem. Just start a half-grain or so above minimum to compensate for extra case capacity. Expect them to hit way above point of aim at any distance as the slower bullet will ride the bore for more of your recoil reaction. While I am at it.... Is there one single powder "reasonable" to use for the entire range of reloads... Low end .44 S&W Special ...to HIgh End....and then on through Low end .44 Magnum... up to High End .44 Magnum ?? No. The .44special loads will need a fast powder (Titegroup, WW231, WST, Bullseye, to name a few). Low end .44mag loads can be had with a fast powder, but the real boomers with heavy bullets will require a slow powder. H-110, WW296, and Lil'gun are top performers for this. A medium-fast powder like Unique might be used for all, but is is a compromise. Heck, you can find a load for Unique for just about every handgun cartridge, but it is not the best load in many. TIA I hope this was of some help. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter. Last edited by Sport45; March 2, 2006 at 10:52 AM.

March 2, 2006, 10:05 AM	#4
renaissance7697 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2001 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 203	For Sport45 Thank you for your: To the point and thorough answer to ALL of my questions !! __________________ An Armed Society, Is a Polite Society.

March 2, 2006, 11:08 AM	#5
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	You're welcome. I'm far from expert with the magnum loads. I sold my 7.5" SBH in .44mag because it just wasn't fun to shoot in full magnum mode and the sights wouldn't adjust down far enough to allow .44spcl loads. I'm sure somebody with more magnum reloading experience will chime in soon to help with the big bang loads. Northeast Bullet sells cast bullets at reasonable prices and free shipping if you want to go that route. Slug the bore and cylinder throats and select a bullet about .0005" larger than the throats. This won't work if the throats are smaller than the bore which is not uncommon with Rugers. You can contact Northeast through their website and they are very helpful in helping select hardness and lube for your application. The site says they are starting to deal in jacketed bullets, but I don't know what selection they have. Back when I loaded jacketed bullets in handgun I bought a lot from Montana Gold. They had good prices and free shipping. Graf's and Midway are good places to buy in small quantity to try different bullets. Graf's has a flat rate shipping fee of $3.75 which is very good. Is this the bullet you are looking for? __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter. Last edited by Sport45; March 2, 2006 at 02:47 PM.

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March 2, 2006, 09:39 AM	#3
Leftoverdj Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2004 Posts: 934	Beautiful job, Sport. The double cannelures, as Sport said, allow for the use of the same bullet in different cartridges. They also give some flexibility for guns with unusual cylinder or chamber length. Some carbines for pistol calibers allow the bullets to be seated far forward for a substantial increase in case capacity and performance. It's also been claimed that cannelures can be used to control expansion. I'm not a bullet designer and cannot claim that as a fact, but I have recovered enough bullets that were expanded only forward of a cannelure to suspect that may be true.