Making and storing black powder legally

dlwyatt1 · September 6, 2012, 02:15 PM

Hi to all:

I have decided to learn the skill of how to make good quality BP. I have found volumes of recipes, quality info, tips, tricks and safety to observe. That is not the source of my confusion.

My question is if I make/keep small quantities of BP (like 10 lbs). Do I need to store this in a type 4 magazine to keep the Batfe happy. Also as I understand it, I can make BP without a license but I cannot sell it, ship it, or transport it? How the heck can I go hunting and use my BP without transporting it???

Certainly the same rules don't apply if you have a couple of cans of Goex. Someone please enlighten me. Thanks

Shotgun693 · September 6, 2012, 02:47 PM

I'll bet if you check that would be transporting by commercial carrier.

Doc Hoy · September 6, 2012, 02:51 PM

Welcome to the forum.

Someone is sure to weigh in with some good knowledge here.

steinauge · September 7, 2012, 05:57 AM

I would think the best way to deal with the batfags would be not to bother them? BE CAREFUL to keep your mixture damp not runny, while you are mixing your powder.When you are mealing dry powder do very small quantities-4oz or less- at a time.The stuff is pretty safe when damp-about the consistency of dough.When dry,well you dont want to find out why old time powder mills had hinged walls----------Seriously,I have made a fair amount of BP over the last forty years or so and it is hard,dangerous work that for me at least always gave inferior powder.Hope your attempt works out well.

**4V50 Gary** · September 7, 2012, 07:30 AM

Go to the ATF website.

Sport45 · September 7, 2012, 07:33 AM

Welcome to The Firing Line!

You might also want to check with your insurance carrier. It wouldn't be good to find out you're not covered after the fire.

Good luck with the venture.

Rifleman1776 · September 7, 2012, 08:14 AM

Many discussion forums, including some devoted exclusively to bp and traditional muzzle loading, do not even allow discussion of making bp because the process so inherently dangerous.
You can (legally) make your own but cannot transfer to another person.
No special storage is needed.
Up to 50 pounds may be possessed at a given time.
Good luck. Hope you don't kill yourself.

brushhippie · September 7, 2012, 08:55 AM

My goodness quite the adventurous bunch, I mix my own (dry) 200 grams at a whack, and have not been blown up (common sense). Im thinking what they dont know wont hurt em, but if youre one of those letter of the law kinda guys, I think itll be more hassle than anything.

noelf2 · September 7, 2012, 10:40 AM

+1 ^^^

So, If you don't think you can pay attention to detail, or are just too dumb to be able to do it. Fear it !!! Otherwise, carry on and share your notes (please)...

dlwyatt1 · September 7, 2012, 11:16 AM

Thanks for everyone jumping in. My question was not how to make it or if to make it, the gray area is..... do I have to heed any Batfe regs for storing or transporting small quantities for use hunting or shooting at the range. From what I read, I am not required to have a license for small quantities. I was wondering if anyone had any expertise in this area?

Thanks.

Woody55 · September 7, 2012, 11:31 AM

I had a friend who wanted gunpowder when he was around 12.

He industriously sat on his bed and cut paper caps (do they still make them?) in half with a scissors and collected the results on a pile on the sheet. The pile because rather large. Unfortunately, something happened and the pile went up with a kind of whooosh noise.

More unfortunately, either the sound or the smoke or maybe his yelp of surprise attracted his mother. She opened the door, and there he was sitting on the sheet with a big black spot and a small mushroom cloud billowing up to the ceiling.

As you might expect, she exclaimed, "WHAT HAPPENED?"

And as you might further expect he responded, "Nothing."

Ah. To be 12 again.

Wild Bill Bucks · September 7, 2012, 12:10 PM

If you are transporting it for target practice, or hunting, then your not going to be dragging around a 10 lb can of powder. All of us have to take our powder and bullets to the range or the woods, and I'll bet hardly any of us take a can of powder to the woods. Most of us carry 3 or 4 extra loads in a quick loader when we hunt, and probably don't carry more than a 1 lb can to the range. I would not worry about anyone questioning me about my powder. I've powder hunted for most of my life, and I have never had anyone ask me to test my powder, or check me for paperwork for having it in possession. If for some reason you are actually going to be carrying a large amount of powder, I would definitely find out what kind of paperwork I need from ATF. Otherwise they might take a REAL interest in what you intend to do with that much powder, in the light of 9-11.

thallub · September 7, 2012, 02:42 PM

Deleted by thallub.

mykeal · September 7, 2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Thanks for everyone jumping in. My question was not how to make it or if to make it, the gray area is..... do I have to heed any Batfe regs for storing or transporting small quantities for use hunting or shooting at the range. From what I read, I am not required to have a license for small quantities. I was wondering if anyone had any expertise in this area?

The best advice you've gotten so far came from the moderator, 4v50Gary:

Quote:

Go to the ATF website.

The regulations are not all that difficult to understand, and they have a very useful FAQ function available that I believe answers your question. It's also very easy to look up the local district office in the phone book under US Government listings and call them. I've found them very helpful and easy to work with.

As far as storage at home, the local fire regulations will be the most important ones to follow; they're always more restrictive than the BATFE for everyone but large distributors. With respect to transportation, there are no BATFE restrictions that apply to an individual enroute to a range or hunting as long as he/she is the legal owner of the powder. That's clear on the BATFE website.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · September 7, 2012, 10:10 PM

Quick easy way.
Just call a business that sells (mail order B/P to Florida) or a local business that sells B/P in your area. They know the laws for your State and will have the answers for your questions. Being Track of the Wolf is in the mail order business of shipping Black around the country. Perhaps they can. They answered all of mine when I called. Buy limits, on hand limit, w/ & wo/ a powder magazine. Good luck with your quest to become enlightened_.

Quote:

I like to Second Doc Hoy's remarks if I may: again Welcome to the forum dlwyatt1._

Muzzy · October 4, 2012, 10:32 PM

Quote:

do I have to heed any Batfe regs for storing or transporting small quantities for use hunting or shooting at the range

Its State by State . You need the local regulations in your area regarding this, ATF only provides the federal guide lines. Like in Ma. here you need an FID to transport any amount, this includes going from point a to point b in your possesion this is the State calling for Fed ID for this pupose. You will find many states are not as stringent as Ma. - although even in Ma. you can posses BP and BP arms in your home (including pistols) with no FID, and can transport long arms with no BP loads without FID or local permit, but they require the FID and local permit for BP pistol and powder transport.

In Florida, it is most likely way more lax, but just call local police station, they will tell you what you need to do.

Muzzy · October 4, 2012, 11:10 PM

If you do call local Police and ask them what you need 'DO NOT' say your making the powder!

Under Federal and most state guide lines you have the right to produce small qt's of powder without a license. But again as example, this can be done in Ma.as well, but you still need FID to move it, so as long as all the other criteria is met for possesion and transport, it may be wise to not mention manufacture.
Remember the locality takes presencence over the Fed for permissions, if your local permissions are denied, your Fed permissions are illegitamized instantly. The Fed only takes presence in an enforcement action or in interstate issues, so if the local shoots you down, your done, unless you go somewhere else. Manufacturing is just a red flag alert topic because of all the crap that goes on....

September 6, 2012, 02:15 PM	#1
dlwyatt1 Junior Member Join Date: September 6, 2012 Location: Orlando, Fla Posts: 2	Making and storing black powder legally Hi to all: I have decided to learn the skill of how to make good quality BP. I have found volumes of recipes, quality info, tips, tricks and safety to observe. That is not the source of my confusion. My question is if I make/keep small quantities of BP (like 10 lbs). Do I need to store this in a type 4 magazine to keep the Batfe happy. Also as I understand it, I can make BP without a license but I cannot sell it, ship it, or transport it? How the heck can I go hunting and use my BP without transporting it??? Certainly the same rules don't apply if you have a couple of cans of Goex. Someone please enlighten me. Thanks

September 6, 2012, 02:51 PM	#3
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	DL Welcome to the forum. Someone is sure to weigh in with some good knowledge here. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

September 7, 2012, 07:30 AM	#5
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	Go to the ATF website. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

September 7, 2012, 07:33 AM	#6
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	Welcome to The Firing Line! You might also want to check with your insurance carrier. It wouldn't be good to find out you're not covered after the fire. Good luck with the venture. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

September 7, 2012, 10:40 AM	#9
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	+1 ^^^ So, If you don't think you can pay attention to detail, or are just too dumb to be able to do it. Fear it !!! Otherwise, carry on and share your notes (please)... __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

September 6, 2012, 02:47 PM	#2
Shotgun693 Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2011 Location: Poteet, Texas Posts: 959	I'll bet if you check that would be transporting by commercial carrier.

September 7, 2012, 05:57 AM	#4
steinauge Member Join Date: July 18, 2012 Posts: 24	I would think the best way to deal with the batfags would be not to bother them? BE CAREFUL to keep your mixture damp not runny, while you are mixing your powder.When you are mealing dry powder do very small quantities-4oz or less- at a time.The stuff is pretty safe when damp-about the consistency of dough.When dry,well you dont want to find out why old time powder mills had hinged walls----------Seriously,I have made a fair amount of BP over the last forty years or so and it is hard,dangerous work that for me at least always gave inferior powder.Hope your attempt works out well.

September 7, 2012, 08:14 AM	#7
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	Many discussion forums, including some devoted exclusively to bp and traditional muzzle loading, do not even allow discussion of making bp because the process so inherently dangerous. You can (legally) make your own but cannot transfer to another person. No special storage is needed. Up to 50 pounds may be possessed at a given time. Good luck. Hope you don't kill yourself.

September 7, 2012, 08:55 AM	#8
brushhippie Junior member Join Date: June 4, 2012 Posts: 70	My goodness quite the adventurous bunch, I mix my own (dry) 200 grams at a whack, and have not been blown up (common sense). Im thinking what they dont know wont hurt em, but if youre one of those letter of the law kinda guys, I think itll be more hassle than anything.

September 7, 2012, 11:16 AM	#10
dlwyatt1 Junior Member Join Date: September 6, 2012 Location: Orlando, Fla Posts: 2	Thanks for everyone jumping in. My question was not how to make it or if to make it, the gray area is..... do I have to heed any Batfe regs for storing or transporting small quantities for use hunting or shooting at the range. From what I read, I am not required to have a license for small quantities. I was wondering if anyone had any expertise in this area? Thanks.

September 7, 2012, 11:31 AM	#11
Woody55 Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2012 Location: East Texas Posts: 407	I had a friend who wanted gunpowder when he was around 12. He industriously sat on his bed and cut paper caps (do they still make them?) in half with a scissors and collected the results on a pile on the sheet. The pile because rather large. Unfortunately, something happened and the pile went up with a kind of whooosh noise. More unfortunately, either the sound or the smoke or maybe his yelp of surprise attracted his mother. She opened the door, and there he was sitting on the sheet with a big black spot and a small mushroom cloud billowing up to the ceiling. As you might expect, she exclaimed, "WHAT HAPPENED?" And as you might further expect he responded, "Nothing." Ah. To be 12 again.

September 7, 2012, 12:10 PM	#12
Wild Bill Bucks Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2005 Location: Southeastern Oklahoma, Next door to Sasquatch Posts: 1,266	If you are transporting it for target practice, or hunting, then your not going to be dragging around a 10 lb can of powder. All of us have to take our powder and bullets to the range or the woods, and I'll bet hardly any of us take a can of powder to the woods. Most of us carry 3 or 4 extra loads in a quick loader when we hunt, and probably don't carry more than a 1 lb can to the range. I would not worry about anyone questioning me about my powder. I've powder hunted for most of my life, and I have never had anyone ask me to test my powder, or check me for paperwork for having it in possession. If for some reason you are actually going to be carrying a large amount of powder, I would definitely find out what kind of paperwork I need from ATF. Otherwise they might take a REAL interest in what you intend to do with that much powder, in the light of 9-11.

September 7, 2012, 02:42 PM	#13
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	Deleted by thallub. Last edited by thallub; September 7, 2012 at 03:08 PM.

October 4, 2012, 11:10 PM	#17
Muzzy Junior Member Join Date: October 4, 2012 Location: Western MA. Posts: 2	If you do call local Police and ask them what you need 'DO NOT' say your making the powder! Under Federal and most state guide lines you have the right to produce small qt's of powder without a license. But again as example, this can be done in Ma.as well, but you still need FID to move it, so as long as all the other criteria is met for possesion and transport, it may be wise to not mention manufacture. Remember the locality takes presencence over the Fed for permissions, if your local permissions are denied, your Fed permissions are illegitamized instantly. The Fed only takes presence in an enforcement action or in interstate issues, so if the local shoots you down, your done, unless you go somewhere else. Manufacturing is just a red flag alert topic because of all the crap that goes on....