Triple SE7EN

pappy177 · April 13, 2009, 06:02 PM

Recently have been trying this , FF and FFF , holy mackerel it seems to have a lot more kick.
Slowed from 30 grains to 25 in my 44 pistol , 130 to 100 in my 50 rifle , anyone else notice this?
I have always made my own powder but this is listed as plane warm water clean up and it is.
I do kinda like it but not the price.

Fingers McGee · April 13, 2009, 06:37 PM

T7 is 15% or more hotter than BP. Your best bet would be to go to Hodgdons powder page & look up the T7 loading data. 28 grains in my 44-40 Cattlemen is a handfull.

Mark whiz · April 13, 2009, 06:46 PM

As Fingers said, 777 is a good bit hotter than true black or any of the substitutes.
As an example, my standard load of 80gr of 2fg 777 with a 300gr sabot in my rifle is the equivilent of 90gr of Pyro RS or 105gr of 2fg American Pioneer (Shockeys, CleanShot, or whatever else it's been called). This produces 1500fps at the muzzle with a barrel of 22" length.

For my 1858Rem, I've dropped from a full 30gr load of 3fg black to 25gr of 3fg 777. What you have to watch out for is loading consistency, 777 seems to pack really well so can be over-compressed while loading...................this hasn't been any issue with my rifle shooting, but I've definitely noticed it with the pistol.

long rider · April 13, 2009, 09:16 PM

TRIPLE SEVEN DATE by hodgdon.
CAP and BALL FFF
36 cal 1851 navy steel frame. min 15gr max 20 grn 375 rb.
44 cal 1858 rem steel fame. min 20gr max 25grn 454 rb.
44 cal 1860 steel frame. min 20grn max 25grn 451 rb.
45 cal ruger old army. min 30grn max 35grn 457 rb.
This is the loading date by HODGDON FOR T7.

long rider · April 13, 2009, 09:22 PM

I forgot to say i also have loading date for
T 7 cartridge to if any of you guys need it .

Fingers McGee · April 13, 2009, 11:42 PM

Here's the T7 loading data link:

http://www.hodgdon.com/ml-warning.html when you go there, check the box and click on the 'Get Muzzleloading Data' block which will open the .pdf file. The C&B and cartidge data is on page 13 of the .pdf file

Oldfalguy · April 14, 2009, 10:21 PM

Managed to find some Hornady .457 balls, no percussion caps. Correct me if wrong but I believe the ROA uses the #11 cap? Correct?
I would really like to avoid a BP load that kick any more than 45LC/44 special and one that would require the use of any filler at all.
I would like to use the 777 but can one do so at 20gr in the ROA or 1858 and not use filler- in other words just a straight up 20 gr, wad and then ball just below chamber depth and go for the smoke.
I think but do not know what problems evolve if the ball is seated deeper because of a reduced BP load or whatever powder used. On some level I realize that leaving any empty space between the wad and the ball wouldn't be a good idea.
Comments

mykeal · April 15, 2009, 06:38 AM

Oldfalguy -

You would have better luck getting answers if you started a new thread with your questions, instead of tacking them on to some other guy's thread. It's a bit impolite to 'hijack' somebody else's thread, and you'll only get a limited number of people reading your post.

Cap sizes are difficult to specify. First, there's no standard for sizes; CCI No. 10's are not the same size as Remington No. 10's, for instance, and they can vary even within a given brand and size. My ROA uses Remington No. 10's best, but even the Remington No. 11 and RWS 1075's will work. Others have had different results, finding the CCI's work better. The only thing you can do is buy some and try them.

Caps are difficult to buy via mail order as most places will charge you a $20 hazardous materials shipping fee on your order.

Recoil with any black powder load will be very different than with smokeless powders. It's more of a push than a recoil; you don't need to reduce your loads for the sake of reduced recoil.

The projectile MUST be seated on the powder. It is quite dangerous to leave an air gap between powder and ball.

Some folks claim there is an increase in accuracy when using filler for the purpose of seating the ball near the chamber mouth. However, that advantage is not large; many of us can't shoot well enough to notice it. I suggest you can do very well without worrying about seating the ball near the chamber mouth when just starting out; once you've gotten some experience you might try out the filler and see if you can detect any advantage.

The ROA can seat the ball on a 20 gr charge of powder. The ball will be deep in the chamber, but as mentioned above, don't be concerned about that.

Smokin_Gun · April 15, 2009, 09:54 AM

Mykeal, I 'll back you 100% on the ball to chamber depth making little or no differance in accuracy. I've even tried Puff-lon which is made as a graphite filler with poor results compared to lube pills or naked.
And you already know my ill unfaded feelings for 777 in a C&B Revolver.

a7mmnut · April 15, 2009, 10:00 AM

Changed over from Pyrodex the year after it came out and never looked back. Zero problems, easy cleaning, and near 100% reliability!

If we'd had this stuff 20 years ago, I could have spared the sale and trade of several pretty front-stuffers.

-7-

grymster2007 · April 15, 2009, 10:30 AM

I don't shoot much and I've never used 777. Pyrodex mostly and a little BP. I might use BP more if I could find it locally. Seems to me that 777 is more trouble than it's worth.

A friend just gave me a can of GOEX, almost full.

Looks like it's from the '80s.

April 13, 2009, 06:37 PM	#2
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	T7 is 15% or more hotter than BP. Your best bet would be to go to Hodgdons powder page & look up the T7 loading data. 28 grains in my 44-40 Cattlemen is a handfull. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

April 13, 2009, 06:46 PM	#3
Mark whiz Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Wabash, IN Posts: 227	As Fingers said, 777 is a good bit hotter than true black or any of the substitutes. As an example, my standard load of 80gr of 2fg 777 with a 300gr sabot in my rifle is the equivilent of 90gr of Pyro RS or 105gr of 2fg American Pioneer (Shockeys, CleanShot, or whatever else it's been called). This produces 1500fps at the muzzle with a barrel of 22" length. For my 1858Rem, I've dropped from a full 30gr load of 3fg black to 25gr of 3fg 777. What you have to watch out for is loading consistency, 777 seems to pack really well so can be over-compressed while loading...................this hasn't been any issue with my rifle shooting, but I've definitely noticed it with the pistol. __________________ "Every moving thing that liveth, I give unto you as meat" (Gen 9:3) Aim small.........miss small. Trust God..........but keep your powder dry!

April 13, 2009, 09:16 PM	#4
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	TRIPLE SEVEN DATE by hodgdon. CAP and BALL FFF 36 cal 1851 navy steel frame. min 15gr max 20 grn 375 rb. 44 cal 1858 rem steel fame. min 20gr max 25grn 454 rb. 44 cal 1860 steel frame. min 20grn max 25grn 451 rb. 45 cal ruger old army. min 30grn max 35grn 457 rb. This is the loading date by HODGDON FOR T7. __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

April 13, 2009, 09:22 PM	#5
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	I forgot to say i also have loading date for T 7 cartridge to if any of you guys need it . __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

April 13, 2009, 11:42 PM	#6
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Here's the T7 loading data link: http://www.hodgdon.com/ml-warning.html when you go there, check the box and click on the 'Get Muzzleloading Data' block which will open the .pdf file. The C&B and cartidge data is on page 13 of the .pdf file __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

April 13, 2009, 06:02 PM	#1
pappy177 Member Join Date: March 14, 2009 Location: port richey florida Posts: 46	Triple SE7EN Recently have been trying this , FF and FFF , holy mackerel it seems to have a lot more kick. Slowed from 30 grains to 25 in my 44 pistol , 130 to 100 in my 50 rifle , anyone else notice this? I have always made my own powder but this is listed as plane warm water clean up and it is. I do kinda like it but not the price.

April 14, 2009, 10:21 PM	#7
Oldfalguy Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 126	Trying to get my ROA ready to go Managed to find some Hornady .457 balls, no percussion caps. Correct me if wrong but I believe the ROA uses the #11 cap? Correct? I would really like to avoid a BP load that kick any more than 45LC/44 special and one that would require the use of any filler at all. I would like to use the 777 but can one do so at 20gr in the ROA or 1858 and not use filler- in other words just a straight up 20 gr, wad and then ball just below chamber depth and go for the smoke. I think but do not know what problems evolve if the ball is seated deeper because of a reduced BP load or whatever powder used. On some level I realize that leaving any empty space between the wad and the ball wouldn't be a good idea. Comments

April 15, 2009, 06:38 AM	#8
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Oldfalguy - You would have better luck getting answers if you started a new thread with your questions, instead of tacking them on to some other guy's thread. It's a bit impolite to 'hijack' somebody else's thread, and you'll only get a limited number of people reading your post. Cap sizes are difficult to specify. First, there's no standard for sizes; CCI No. 10's are not the same size as Remington No. 10's, for instance, and they can vary even within a given brand and size. My ROA uses Remington No. 10's best, but even the Remington No. 11 and RWS 1075's will work. Others have had different results, finding the CCI's work better. The only thing you can do is buy some and try them. Caps are difficult to buy via mail order as most places will charge you a $20 hazardous materials shipping fee on your order. Recoil with any black powder load will be very different than with smokeless powders. It's more of a push than a recoil; you don't need to reduce your loads for the sake of reduced recoil. The projectile MUST be seated on the powder. It is quite dangerous to leave an air gap between powder and ball. Some folks claim there is an increase in accuracy when using filler for the purpose of seating the ball near the chamber mouth. However, that advantage is not large; many of us can't shoot well enough to notice it. I suggest you can do very well without worrying about seating the ball near the chamber mouth when just starting out; once you've gotten some experience you might try out the filler and see if you can detect any advantage. The ROA can seat the ball on a 20 gr charge of powder. The ball will be deep in the chamber, but as mentioned above, don't be concerned about that.

April 15, 2009, 09:54 AM	#9
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Mykeal, I 'll back you 100% on the ball to chamber depth making little or no differance in accuracy. I've even tried Puff-lon which is made as a graphite filler with poor results compared to lube pills or naked. And you already know my ill unfaded feelings for 777 in a C&B Revolver. __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

April 15, 2009, 10:00 AM	#10
a7mmnut Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2009 Location: NC Foothills Posts: 1,150	Changed over from Pyrodex the year after it came out and never looked back. Zero problems, easy cleaning, and near 100% reliability! If we'd had this stuff 20 years ago, I could have spared the sale and trade of several pretty front-stuffers. -7-

April 15, 2009, 10:30 AM	#11
grymster2007 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: In the oak studded hills near Napa Posts: 2,203	I don't shoot much and I've never used 777. Pyrodex mostly and a little BP. I might use BP more if I could find it locally. Seems to me that 777 is more trouble than it's worth. A friend just gave me a can of GOEX, almost full. Looks like it's from the '80s. __________________ grym