.45 colt -- then and now

TacticalReload · August 7, 2005, 10:09 PM

It's annoying that, for modern firearms chambered in .45 colt, we're limited by old time SAAMI pressures unless you happen to have a Ruger.

Are all these Colt clones built to only handle the same old low pressures and nothing more? Anyone experiment with tweeking the pressures up a bit?

Why not a +P rated version that is sized like a SAA but can handle a slightly higher pressure rating without going all the way to the tank-like ruger single actions? There sure is a LOT of ground between the 14k CUP of the cowboy loads and the 30k CUP of the Ruger-only loads.

impact · August 7, 2005, 11:37 PM

I'm sure it's because of all the old colt gun and replicas out there. You know if someone put a +p in one of these old guns and KB the gun someone would pay! I'm sure it would not be the shooter.

LAH · August 8, 2005, 06:47 AM

I for one feel the clones might be juiced up a bit but why? They are what they are. I've fooled with these and I can only speak for myself but the size difference between the Colt and the Ruger is just a non factor. I think for carring purposes the Ruger packs just as easy.

My time with the Colt and clones has been limited, but I have use the OM Ruger .357 a bit before finally selling it to a friend. It carries no easier and shoots no easier than my NM's. The decision is made, I'll shoot the 45 in my NMBH reguardless of which pressures I choose. I don't consider it a problem.

And please TacticalReload don't take this as a flame but I think a lot of the hype about the downsized Rugers and the Colt clones is to sell guns. But let me say this, I'm more than willing to be corrected because I don't shoot Cowboy. Still I carry the NMBH is some of the roughest country known to man kind, the hills of southern WV. Not the rolling hills to the north but the grab hold of a bush to pull yourself up to the next bush hills of Dry Creek, Rock Creek, Horse Creek, Drews Creek and other drains nearby. I honestly can't tell the difference in packing my tank and the OM 357 or Colt Cowboy.

You are correct, there's a lot of difference between 14K and 30K and unless I'm mistaken the new downsize Ruger should fill some of that gap. Of course if someone brings out the sixgun you suggest I just might fall off my horse and buy one. HEE HEE.................Creeker

TacticalReload · August 8, 2005, 07:31 AM

I do agree that the weight on the hip isn't a big difference. However, I just feel that the way a Colt or clone handles in the hand feels better for me than the Vaquero. That being said, the sized-down new model Vaqueros feel better... but I wouldn't load them hotter than I would in my USFA or Beretta Stampede.

As for the argument that someone would put a +P round into an old Colt and blow it up... well, I agree that that seems fairly valid except for two things: (1) companies like Buffalo Bore already make "Ruger-only" loads that would do a number on a SAA or clone, and (2) the same argument could be made for the .38 special +P but that never stopped anyone from producing them.

If someone made a middle of the road SAA clone that was rated at an honest 20-23k CUP (similar to a .45 acp +P), you'd be able to pack a heck of a package.

Jim Watson · August 8, 2005, 07:35 AM

Why not a +P rated version?
Why do you THINK not?
Ruger has the New Vaquero and USFA clones are slightly beefed up; and even Colts are made of stronger steels than when they first approved smokeless powder about 1900.
Buffalo Bore sells SAAMI ammo with a 255 gr GC at 950-1050 fps depending on barrel length. That is about all the fun I need, but if you want more, Dave Scovill of Handloader magazine did a little book on loading for SAA and I just bet, from reading his magazine articles, that some of the data is as stout as he considers suitable for modern guns.

LAH · August 8, 2005, 08:06 AM

However, I just feel that the way a Colt or clone handles in the hand feels better for me than the Vaquero.

You make a good point. I'm different than most. I like the NMBH's. They "feel" right to me and the click, click, click of the traditional sixguns is something I don't like. I grew up with the NM's starting in 1973. I have one of the first NM Single Six's to come off the line. This was followed by a SBH and then the two 45 BH's I now own. We I bought the OMBH .357 I just couldn't make the change.

August 7, 2005, 10:09 PM	#1
TacticalReload Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2001 Posts: 119	.45 colt -- then and now It's annoying that, for modern firearms chambered in .45 colt, we're limited by old time SAAMI pressures unless you happen to have a Ruger. Are all these Colt clones built to only handle the same old low pressures and nothing more? Anyone experiment with tweeking the pressures up a bit? Why not a +P rated version that is sized like a SAA but can handle a slightly higher pressure rating without going all the way to the tank-like ruger single actions? There sure is a LOT of ground between the 14k CUP of the cowboy loads and the 30k CUP of the Ruger-only loads. __________________ ------ Steve Fuller [email protected]

August 8, 2005, 07:31 AM	#4
TacticalReload Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2001 Posts: 119	I do agree that the weight on the hip isn't a big difference. However, I just feel that the way a Colt or clone handles in the hand feels better for me than the Vaquero. That being said, the sized-down new model Vaqueros feel better... but I wouldn't load them hotter than I would in my USFA or Beretta Stampede. As for the argument that someone would put a +P round into an old Colt and blow it up... well, I agree that that seems fairly valid except for two things: (1) companies like Buffalo Bore already make "Ruger-only" loads that would do a number on a SAA or clone, and (2) the same argument could be made for the .38 special +P but that never stopped anyone from producing them. If someone made a middle of the road SAA clone that was rated at an honest 20-23k CUP (similar to a .45 acp +P), you'd be able to pack a heck of a package. __________________ ------ Steve Fuller [email protected]

August 7, 2005, 11:37 PM	#2
impact Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: the great state of Texas Posts: 854	I'm sure it's because of all the old colt gun and replicas out there. You know if someone put a +p in one of these old guns and KB the gun someone would pay! I'm sure it would not be the shooter.

August 8, 2005, 06:47 AM	#3
LAH Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2002 Location: In The Hardwoods Posts: 1,188	I for one feel the clones might be juiced up a bit but why? They are what they are. I've fooled with these and I can only speak for myself but the size difference between the Colt and the Ruger is just a non factor. I think for carring purposes the Ruger packs just as easy. My time with the Colt and clones has been limited, but I have use the OM Ruger .357 a bit before finally selling it to a friend. It carries no easier and shoots no easier than my NM's. The decision is made, I'll shoot the 45 in my NMBH reguardless of which pressures I choose. I don't consider it a problem. And please TacticalReload don't take this as a flame but I think a lot of the hype about the downsized Rugers and the Colt clones is to sell guns. But let me say this, I'm more than willing to be corrected because I don't shoot Cowboy. Still I carry the NMBH is some of the roughest country known to man kind, the hills of southern WV. Not the rolling hills to the north but the grab hold of a bush to pull yourself up to the next bush hills of Dry Creek, Rock Creek, Horse Creek, Drews Creek and other drains nearby. I honestly can't tell the difference in packing my tank and the OM 357 or Colt Cowboy. You are correct, there's a lot of difference between 14K and 30K and unless I'm mistaken the new downsize Ruger should fill some of that gap. Of course if someone brings out the sixgun you suggest I just might fall off my horse and buy one. HEE HEE.................Creeker

August 8, 2005, 07:35 AM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Why not a +P rated version? Why do you THINK not? Ruger has the New Vaquero and USFA clones are slightly beefed up; and even Colts are made of stronger steels than when they first approved smokeless powder about 1900. Buffalo Bore sells SAAMI ammo with a 255 gr GC at 950-1050 fps depending on barrel length. That is about all the fun I need, but if you want more, Dave Scovill of Handloader magazine did a little book on loading for SAA and I just bet, from reading his magazine articles, that some of the data is as stout as he considers suitable for modern guns.

August 8, 2005, 08:06 AM	#6
LAH Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2002 Location: In The Hardwoods Posts: 1,188	However, I just feel that the way a Colt or clone handles in the hand feels better for me than the Vaquero. You make a good point. I'm different than most. I like the NMBH's. They "feel" right to me and the click, click, click of the traditional sixguns is something I don't like. I grew up with the NM's starting in 1973. I have one of the first NM Single Six's to come off the line. This was followed by a SBH and then the two 45 BH's I now own. We I bought the OMBH .357 I just couldn't make the change.