Modern Loads for Old Cartridges

gdcpony · March 15, 2010, 05:40 PM

I found an action to turn into a rifle. I'll add this to my arsenal, though it may take a few years to actually find the time and funds to complete. No biggie. However, as I peruse available data for my favorite cartridge, I find it lacking for modern data. I can find plenty for loading to a 96 Mauser, but that leaves a ton of performance to be gained in a 98 action (which has been checked and is cleared for today's "modern" pressures). This problem is two fold for me. I have another 98 barreled for a 257Roberts. I plan to barrel the other action in my beloved 7x57. In looking for modern loads for these rounds I come up short.

The best I can do is extrapolate for the Bob I already load for and slowly worked up to a pet load of 40 grains of Varget behind a 100gr SPBT that delivers sub MOA and shows no pressure signs (THIS IS 2 GRAINS OVER MAX LISTED SO DO NOT USE AS A LOAD UNLESS YOU ARE 110% SURE YOUR RIFLE IS A GOOD 98 OR MODERN RIFLE). I want to move- once I have expended my current (bought on sale) supplies- to load a 90gr Sierra HPBT with H414 as it seems to deliver better velocity with less pressure. I would like to load this to its full potential. I think it would make a nice versatile round.

For the 7x57 I would like to move either a 140 or 150gr pill along with extreme haste. 2700fps is a listed load at 46k cup. I bet a 50k load would best that by a good 150fps with no ill effects. Assuming of course the load will hit the broadside of a barn (always a consideration). That could be carried down range to hit a far 800yd (my best so far) groundhog with authority.

For all the uses I am likely to put either rifle to here in Ohio where it is mostly used on ground hogs and coyotes and only used on deer for population hunts which are very few and far between, there is no problem with loading for velocity. I just want the bullets moving as quickly as I can so long as accuracy is within my specs.

I tend to load for speed and accuracy and will take the heavier load if the accuracy difference is acceptable. A good example is my daughter's .223 which in my hands is an MOA shooter with most loads, but she is not so good. So I load a zippy little 40gr pill that shoots .1" larger groups for me knowing the 200fps difference between it and the most accurate load will help her hit more than the reduced group. The same applies to me in the hunting field with both bow and rifle where the ability to extend a MPBR is more advantageous than tiny little .5 MOA groupings off a steady rest.

Now, before the flaming begins I am in complete understanding that the max load will not always be the most accurate. I also know to watch for the signs that I may be pushing to the limit, and am willing to back off if I see any signs of it. I just know that these rounds were put into many modern rifles and the factory loadings and reloading data available are way too soft. The reasoning for this is sound (I've owned several 95' so I know they still exist), but for those of us who love these "midlength" rounds it puts us out. I am just looking for some loads to modernize them.

mapsjanhere · March 15, 2010, 06:12 PM

A Mr. Brenneke solved that problem for you nearly a century ago, and called it 7x64. Just get it chambered for that and get near 7 RM power.

Scorch · March 15, 2010, 06:46 PM

Something to work towards:
I load 7X57 in a Ruger 77. I load WLR, 52.0 gr of W760, 140 gr Nosler Partition seated long. Chronos out of my rifle at 2,870. Not exactly Earth-shattering, but notable.

Years ago, I used to load 46.0 gr of IMR4320 under the Nosler Solid Base 140 gr. Not as fast, but good.

oneounceload · March 15, 2010, 07:13 PM

The 7x57 is very close to 7-08 levels - look at them for guidance

gdcpony · March 15, 2010, 07:14 PM

The 7mm load sounds good. I might try it with H414 (same powder different name). Working towards is right though, it's 5gr over the diminutive listed load.

The only other option I am entertaining for chambering the action in would be if I stumbled upon a 7x57 Ackley. I've heard of it and read about it once, but I would have to have a reamer for it.

GallowGlass · March 16, 2010, 01:31 AM

Reloder15 41gr. Speer 87gr. Spitz WLRP Winchester case min.OAL 2.775 Velocity 3185 257 Roberts Speer 14th ed. Reloading Manual. Like you say- watch for pressure & work up safe. Good shootin' to ya with the Mausers.

SL1 · March 16, 2010, 07:39 AM

Do you have a "target" pressure for your "modern" loads to use in your Mauser 98 action? Psi would be best, but CUP is also some guidance.

I ask because there are various pressure-tested listings for the 7mm Mauser at higher than SAAMI pressures, but I don't know of any that go as high as "modern" cartridges like the .270 Winchester.

SL1

March 15, 2010, 05:40 PM	#1
gdcpony Member Join Date: March 2, 2010 Posts: 28	Modern Loads for Old Cartridges I found an action to turn into a rifle. I'll add this to my arsenal, though it may take a few years to actually find the time and funds to complete. No biggie. However, as I peruse available data for my favorite cartridge, I find it lacking for modern data. I can find plenty for loading to a 96 Mauser, but that leaves a ton of performance to be gained in a 98 action (which has been checked and is cleared for today's "modern" pressures). This problem is two fold for me. I have another 98 barreled for a 257Roberts. I plan to barrel the other action in my beloved 7x57. In looking for modern loads for these rounds I come up short. The best I can do is extrapolate for the Bob I already load for and slowly worked up to a pet load of 40 grains of Varget behind a 100gr SPBT that delivers sub MOA and shows no pressure signs (THIS IS 2 GRAINS OVER MAX LISTED SO DO NOT USE AS A LOAD UNLESS YOU ARE 110% SURE YOUR RIFLE IS A GOOD 98 OR MODERN RIFLE). I want to move- once I have expended my current (bought on sale) supplies- to load a 90gr Sierra HPBT with H414 as it seems to deliver better velocity with less pressure. I would like to load this to its full potential. I think it would make a nice versatile round. For the 7x57 I would like to move either a 140 or 150gr pill along with extreme haste. 2700fps is a listed load at 46k cup. I bet a 50k load would best that by a good 150fps with no ill effects. Assuming of course the load will hit the broadside of a barn (always a consideration). That could be carried down range to hit a far 800yd (my best so far) groundhog with authority. For all the uses I am likely to put either rifle to here in Ohio where it is mostly used on ground hogs and coyotes and only used on deer for population hunts which are very few and far between, there is no problem with loading for velocity. I just want the bullets moving as quickly as I can so long as accuracy is within my specs. I tend to load for speed and accuracy and will take the heavier load if the accuracy difference is acceptable. A good example is my daughter's .223 which in my hands is an MOA shooter with most loads, but she is not so good. So I load a zippy little 40gr pill that shoots .1" larger groups for me knowing the 200fps difference between it and the most accurate load will help her hit more than the reduced group. The same applies to me in the hunting field with both bow and rifle where the ability to extend a MPBR is more advantageous than tiny little .5 MOA groupings off a steady rest. Now, before the flaming begins I am in complete understanding that the max load will not always be the most accurate. I also know to watch for the signs that I may be pushing to the limit, and am willing to back off if I see any signs of it. I just know that these rounds were put into many modern rifles and the factory loadings and reloading data available are way too soft. The reasoning for this is sound (I've owned several 95' so I know they still exist), but for those of us who love these "midlength" rounds it puts us out. I am just looking for some loads to modernize them.

March 15, 2010, 06:12 PM	#2
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	A Mr. Brenneke solved that problem for you nearly a century ago, and called it 7x64. Just get it chambered for that and get near 7 RM power. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

March 15, 2010, 06:46 PM	#3
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Something to work towards: I load 7X57 in a Ruger 77. I load WLR, 52.0 gr of W760, 140 gr Nosler Partition seated long. Chronos out of my rifle at 2,870. Not exactly Earth-shattering, but notable. Years ago, I used to load 46.0 gr of IMR4320 under the Nosler Solid Base 140 gr. Not as fast, but good. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

March 16, 2010, 01:31 AM	#6
GallowGlass Member Join Date: January 13, 2010 Location: near the Pishkun n MT Posts: 69	Reloder "Bob" Load Reloder15 41gr. Speer 87gr. Spitz WLRP Winchester case min.OAL 2.775 Velocity 3185 257 Roberts Speer 14th ed. Reloading Manual. Like you say- watch for pressure & work up safe. Good shootin' to ya with the Mausers. __________________ Gun Control... is having to use Both hands.

March 15, 2010, 07:13 PM	#4
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	The 7x57 is very close to 7-08 levels - look at them for guidance

March 15, 2010, 07:14 PM	#5
gdcpony Member Join Date: March 2, 2010 Posts: 28	The 7mm load sounds good. I might try it with H414 (same powder different name). Working towards is right though, it's 5gr over the diminutive listed load. The only other option I am entertaining for chambering the action in would be if I stumbled upon a 7x57 Ackley. I've heard of it and read about it once, but I would have to have a reamer for it.

March 16, 2010, 07:39 AM	#7
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	Do you have a "target" pressure for your "modern" loads to use in your Mauser 98 action? Psi would be best, but CUP is also some guidance. I ask because there are various pressure-tested listings for the 7mm Mauser at higher than SAAMI pressures, but I don't know of any that go as high as "modern" cartridges like the .270 Winchester. SL1