Where did the coyotes come from?

e-bear · February 5, 2012, 10:29 PM

I generaly hunt eastern Virginia including the eastern shore. This past deer season the deer population was down in my neck of the woods. I've heard rumors that the deer population is down because of the coyotes. Yestersay after a rabbit hunt some of the fellows were talking about how the coyotes have decimated most game species across the state. One fellow said the coyotes were trucked in to our state by insurance companies to reduce the deer population thereby reducing the number of deer/auto accidents. Im thinking that sounds a bit far fetched. Anyone have any thoughts on this subject?

kilimanjaro · February 5, 2012, 10:40 PM

Nobody trucked them in, that's a crock. Coyotes are tough, prolific predators and will expand their territory rapidly. Urbanization means less hunting in semi-rural areas, meaning expanding populations and less game everywhere.

DocHoliday · February 5, 2012, 10:45 PM

My guess would be more natural causes. Most likely in my opinion would be search of a food source or hunting pressure caused them to move from the areas they were before. If they are anything like the hogs down here it could have just been a large population growth.

Shoes · February 6, 2012, 08:18 AM

In Illinois the weather has cause the normal feeding patterns to be totaly disrupted. Therefore, many people have said that the deer population is down. I'm not disputing that, but it could be that the deer are simply not in the areas they once saw them.

I am a sharpshooter for the local Forest Preserve District. Our job is to thin deer herds due to over population. We have suspended the operation for two weeks due to the travel patterns being hosed up. We've found that the deer are still there, they have simply moved to areas were they do not pose a managment issue.

Coyote populations are, indeed, exploding!!!! Friggin' things are moving into populated areas and are seemingly without fear of anything. Pretty soom I suspect that a bounty or something is going to be directed at them.

Scout · February 6, 2012, 08:58 AM

When I was young, there were no coyotes here in central Florida. Now there are plenty. I've always felt that the coyotes are just filling the empty niches left by predators which have been removed from the environment, like the red wolf and the panther. It was just a matter of following the interstates and feeding on roadkill.

johnwilliamson062 · February 6, 2012, 09:11 AM

I think ODNR re-introduced them in Ohio to reduce deer population. Right now in Ohio the deer population is supposed to be multiples of the population pre-European and it just isn't good for the deer. Farmers take millions in damage also(maybe billions).

warbirdlover · February 6, 2012, 09:27 AM

Just introduce some wolves. That got rid of the coyotes on our hunting land....

Art Eatman · February 6, 2012, 09:36 AM

Ehhh, John, there has been commentary for a half-century that I know of about the general expansion of coyote range. It's just that now there are enough of them for folks to notice. And, with sites like this on the Internet, there's more chit-chat about them.

Through the 19th century, they were mostly a Plains animal. "Prairie wolves". Since then they've expanded into all the Lower 48, coming long before the deer herds expanded.

But, yes, they definitely impact fawn survival as well as the populations of rabbits and ground-nesting birds.

rickyrick · February 6, 2012, 11:31 AM

When a mommy coyote falls in love with a daddy coyote...............oh wait that's not the question.

I thought that it started with bridges over the Mississippi.

Pahoo · February 6, 2012, 11:56 AM

Quote:

One fellow said the coyotes were trucked in to our state by insurance companies to reduce the deer population thereby reducing the number of deer/auto accidents. Im thinking that sounds a bit far fetched.

We hear the same thing about why/how cougars are showing up, in some of our Midwest states. Supposedly, the DNR brought them in and for the same reasons you you listed. ....

Be Safe !!!

Old Grump · February 6, 2012, 12:42 PM

If somebody didn't get his deer it must be a conspiracy. After the first 6 pack that is what they come up with. Coyotes are opportunistic and follow the food.

Scorch · February 6, 2012, 11:15 PM

Coyotes are opportunistic scavengers, and as competition from other predators (wolves, cougar, bears, etc) decreased, hunting decreased (descrease in rural populations), and avenues for expansion increased (railroad rights of way, interstate highways, etc), they expanded their range. Must be a conspiracy.

30-30remchester · February 7, 2012, 12:31 AM

A coyote was presented to Thomas Jefferson by the Lewis and Clark expidition IIRC. The most important factor in the advance of the yodel dog to the east is actually a man made convience, few think of. The lowly bridge that spanned the great rivers made it possible for the plains animal to migrate east of the Mississippi.

Nnobby45 · February 7, 2012, 12:37 AM

Quote:

One fellow said the coyotes were trucked in to our state by insurance companies to reduce the deer population thereby reducing the number of deer/auto accidents. Im thinking that sounds a bit far fetched. Anyone have any thoughts on this subject?

I understand completely. After the hunt, sitting around the campfire consuming beer and spirits, the tales do tend to grow taller as the booze supply gets lower.

frigate88 · February 7, 2012, 12:57 AM

An Australian dingo hoped a boat over to America and then met a German shepherd lady, took her for some kibbles and bits. The next thing you know the coyote was born.

shortwave · February 7, 2012, 07:47 AM

Don't know exactly where they came from but I know what they're doing.

At the risk of being flamed, broiled and BBQ'd...Just maybe it's hunters(or the lack there of) that's contributed to the coyote explosion.

If yotes are going to multiply on an average rate of approx. 4-7 pups a year and in many states have really no natural predators or in states that do have natural coyote predators,not enough of them to affect yote population, we hunters need to take up coyote hunting.

There's an older fella that lives close to me that is, and has been an avid trapper/outdoorsman all his life. We've had many a conversation about the yote explosion. We are in agreement that unless hunters start killing the yotes, the explosion will continue and there will be less and less turkey/deer. Seems that DNR here has no immediate plans of dealing with the problem as of yet. Whether that's due to $ constraints or not, don't know. One thing for sure, the yotes don't care the reason, they just keep multiplying.

There-again, up to us hunters to do our part if we want to help insure quality hunting of other animals.

Just my opinion....as I sit with Flame suit on.

rickyrick · February 7, 2012, 08:17 AM

Coyote hunting is incredibly fun, but I don't think it will have a real impact. Maybe at first if they are not used to hunters.

shortwave · February 7, 2012, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Coyote hunting is incredibly fun, but I don't think it will have a real impact...

I can kinda see your point rickyrick. But if we can get enough hunters killing enough females spitting out 4-7 pups yearly along with killing the pups when we get the chance, I think we could (not stop) but slow the explosion down a bit. Especially if us hunters could locate dens on the properties we hunt and clear the dens out.

Given the fact that many states have open season on yotes, if just a third of the total hunting populace, on average could kill a yote a year, I think, over time, a dent...or at least a marked slow down could be put in the overall population.

Course, my limited experience in the yote game has taught me, this would have to be a continuous thing as the yotes seem to move in rapidly as long as the food source is there.

One thing I have found is that I can get access to hunt yotes on farms with livestock(esp. sheep) that I can't get permission to hunt on otherwise. These farmers are estatic(sp) for every yote you kill on them.

rickyrick · February 7, 2012, 10:24 AM

I've stuck to the same farm for years and I'm only now getting pretty good at it...I've been thinking about offering my service to others free of charge just for fun and to help others.

shortwave · February 7, 2012, 10:38 AM

I don't know the total yote populace but U.S. total hunter populace is about 12.5 million. Just think if a third of those hunters were taking a yote a year.

I know it's a stretch but the more yotes that are killed the better overall small, med. and large game hunting will be. Guess we could just call it the same as trying to improve our hunting grounds by planting food plots etc. Thinking about it, even more important then food plots.
No since in planting a food plot for your game animals if there's a bad yote problem cause the yotes know right where to go when they want to kill something.

I got a call from a sheep farmer I know in Western Ohio. He wanted someone to come in and hunt yotes as there are three sheep farms attaching his and in total, they were loosing one to two heads a week in the summer.

When a friend and I went to the farm, the sign(scat,prints etc) was just incredible in the pastures. We hunted every weekend starting out during daylight hours then went to night hunting. Killed several but the yotes soon moved to mostly the other three farms.
Before it was over, we were hunting all four farms, having a blast and doing a service for the farmers. They even went together and bought a small camper for us to stay in cause the drive was getting to us. Today we go there on a Friday nights and stay till Sunday.

rickyrick · February 7, 2012, 11:00 AM

Well a lot of hunters are Hung up on not wanting to kill for no meat. The same issue happens with pigs, many will hunt them till the ice box is full, then it becomes immoral to kill them.

If you want to make a dent in any trouble population, you have to be willing to throw some animals in the bone yard.

You can get a few guys to do it, but once they get their trophy pelt and a few pictures they will be done with hunting till next vacation.

mapsjanhere · February 7, 2012, 11:29 AM

Simple solution, get the wolves back, no more coyote problem.

Scorch · February 7, 2012, 12:06 PM

I agree that hunting the coyotes will draw down the numbers, but only if you make it attractive to hunters, either by making the pelts valuable or putting a bounty on them. Casual hunting does little to draw down populations. The way we nearly wiped out grizzly bears, wolves, and cougars 100 years ago was to have professional hunters that would go after them full time. I hunted coyotes for pelts back in the 1980s, when prime pelts would fetch $70-$100 pretty easy. I was a starving student with a shooting hobby, so in order to pay for it I hunted for pelts. Over a 3-year period I harvested over 250 coyotes. When the price of pelts dropped (thanks a lot, tree huggers), it was no longer financially feasible to chase the coyotes, so I found other things to do that paid more. There were a lot of coyotes back then, but nowhere near what I see now. Back then, if a coyote saw you they headed for cover; nowadays if a coyote sees a human he might sit and watch them for a while to see if they drop a half-eaten burger or candy bar. We teach them bad habits, then complain that they are a nuisance. Oh well!

shortwave · February 7, 2012, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Simple solution, get the wolves back...

Thats ok mapsjan,
Thanks, but you keep the wolves out there with you.

I know what you mean ricky,

If they could only realize how much of a better chance of getting a trophy game animal would be during its season if the yote population was down sized year-round. The yotes kill game animals year-round.

I'm glad many of the guys around here have taken to yote hunting. We are starting to see a turn-around of the rabbit, turkey population that was hit rather hard about five years ago. The yotes would literally wake us up at night howling. Well, they would get our house dogs going then I'd be up shooting out the windows.

Neighbor couldn't seem to keep chickens. I'd usually find their remnants up in the top field. I'd call him and he'd tell me he knew it was yotes rather then domestic dogs due to the fact there would be no mess at the leghold of the chicken. Just a foot laying there. He said yotes hit the chicken almost at a full run leaving very little mess and go elsewhere with their meal. A domestic dog usually tears chicken up badly right there.

He's killed several in his yard. Over four years,here at the house,I've killed five in the yard. A female, very big male and three half grown pups. Again that many in the woods. Also found and gassed two dens killing a female as she ran out below me in the ravine. Was hoping the pups ran out but if they were in the den, I doubt they made it out.

Trip286 · February 7, 2012, 12:18 PM

I couldn't help but laugh at the idea of insurance companies trucking them in!!
That's great, I wouldn't put it past them, and I'm sure they would if they could for the very reason theorized about (deer have cost my insurance company about 8k in the past five years, with 3 different vehicles) but I'm pretty sure there would be some kind of regulations on transporting predatory species of animals across state lines, of course with requirements for transporting said animals for a purpose, and I very much doubt that they could or would go through all the hassle.

February 5, 2012, 10:29 PM	#1
e-bear Member Join Date: October 18, 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 95	Where did the coyotes come from? I generaly hunt eastern Virginia including the eastern shore. This past deer season the deer population was down in my neck of the woods. I've heard rumors that the deer population is down because of the coyotes. Yestersay after a rabbit hunt some of the fellows were talking about how the coyotes have decimated most game species across the state. One fellow said the coyotes were trucked in to our state by insurance companies to reduce the deer population thereby reducing the number of deer/auto accidents. Im thinking that sounds a bit far fetched. Anyone have any thoughts on this subject? __________________ 'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.'- Ronald Reagan "Denying me a gun because idiots kill is like getting castrated because your neighbor has too many kids." - Andy

February 6, 2012, 08:18 AM	#4
Shoes Member Join Date: May 25, 2010 Location: Chicago Suburbs Posts: 82	In Illinois the weather has cause the normal feeding patterns to be totaly disrupted. Therefore, many people have said that the deer population is down. I'm not disputing that, but it could be that the deer are simply not in the areas they once saw them. I am a sharpshooter for the local Forest Preserve District. Our job is to thin deer herds due to over population. We have suspended the operation for two weeks due to the travel patterns being hosed up. We've found that the deer are still there, they have simply moved to areas were they do not pose a managment issue. Coyote populations are, indeed, exploding!!!! Friggin' things are moving into populated areas and are seemingly without fear of anything. Pretty soom I suspect that a bounty or something is going to be directed at them. __________________ "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

February 6, 2012, 08:58 AM	#5
Scout Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 510	When I was young, there were no coyotes here in central Florida. Now there are plenty. I've always felt that the coyotes are just filling the empty niches left by predators which have been removed from the environment, like the red wolf and the panther. It was just a matter of following the interstates and feeding on roadkill. __________________ God bless the U.S. Cavalry

February 6, 2012, 11:31 AM	#9
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	When a mommy coyote falls in love with a daddy coyote...............oh wait that's not the question. I thought that it started with bridges over the Mississippi. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!! Last edited by rickyrick; February 6, 2012 at 03:03 PM.

February 6, 2012, 12:42 PM	#11
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	If somebody didn't get his deer it must be a conspiracy. After the first 6 pack that is what they come up with. Coyotes are opportunistic and follow the food. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

February 5, 2012, 10:40 PM	#2
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Nobody trucked them in, that's a crock. Coyotes are tough, prolific predators and will expand their territory rapidly. Urbanization means less hunting in semi-rural areas, meaning expanding populations and less game everywhere.

February 5, 2012, 10:45 PM	#3
DocHoliday Member Join Date: May 27, 2010 Location: Houston TX Posts: 58	My guess would be more natural causes. Most likely in my opinion would be search of a food source or hunting pressure caused them to move from the areas they were before. If they are anything like the hogs down here it could have just been a large population growth.

February 6, 2012, 09:11 AM	#6
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	I think ODNR re-introduced them in Ohio to reduce deer population. Right now in Ohio the deer population is supposed to be multiples of the population pre-European and it just isn't good for the deer. Farmers take millions in damage also(maybe billions).

February 6, 2012, 09:27 AM	#7
warbirdlover Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 2,324	Just introduce some wolves. That got rid of the coyotes on our hunting land....

February 6, 2012, 09:36 AM	#8
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Ehhh, John, there has been commentary for a half-century that I know of about the general expansion of coyote range. It's just that now there are enough of them for folks to notice. And, with sites like this on the Internet, there's more chit-chat about them. Through the 19th century, they were mostly a Plains animal. "Prairie wolves". Since then they've expanded into all the Lower 48, coming long before the deer herds expanded. But, yes, they definitely impact fawn survival as well as the populations of rabbits and ground-nesting birds.

February 6, 2012, 11:15 PM	#12
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Coyotes are opportunistic scavengers, and as competition from other predators (wolves, cougar, bears, etc) decreased, hunting decreased (descrease in rural populations), and avenues for expansion increased (railroad rights of way, interstate highways, etc), they expanded their range. Must be a conspiracy. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

February 7, 2012, 12:31 AM	#13
30-30remchester Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Location: mountains of colorado Posts: 977	A coyote was presented to Thomas Jefferson by the Lewis and Clark expidition IIRC. The most important factor in the advance of the yodel dog to the east is actually a man made convience, few think of. The lowly bridge that spanned the great rivers made it possible for the plains animal to migrate east of the Mississippi.

February 7, 2012, 12:57 AM	#15
frigate88 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2011 Location: LOXAHATCHEE, FL Posts: 204	An Australian dingo hoped a boat over to America and then met a German shepherd lady, took her for some kibbles and bits. The next thing you know the coyote was born. __________________ "We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for thier own actions." **BLEED BLUE, 10-8**

February 7, 2012, 07:47 AM	#16
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	Don't know exactly where they came from but I know what they're doing. At the risk of being flamed, broiled and BBQ'd...Just maybe it's hunters(or the lack there of) that's contributed to the coyote explosion. If yotes are going to multiply on an average rate of approx. 4-7 pups a year and in many states have really no natural predators or in states that do have natural coyote predators,not enough of them to affect yote population, we hunters need to take up coyote hunting. There's an older fella that lives close to me that is, and has been an avid trapper/outdoorsman all his life. We've had many a conversation about the yote explosion. We are in agreement that unless hunters start killing the yotes, the explosion will continue and there will be less and less turkey/deer. Seems that DNR here has no immediate plans of dealing with the problem as of yet. Whether that's due to $ constraints or not, don't know. One thing for sure, the yotes don't care the reason, they just keep multiplying. There-again, up to us hunters to do our part if we want to help insure quality hunting of other animals. Just my opinion....as I sit with Flame suit on.

February 7, 2012, 08:17 AM	#17
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	Coyote hunting is incredibly fun, but I don't think it will have a real impact. Maybe at first if they are not used to hunters. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

February 7, 2012, 10:24 AM	#19
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	I've stuck to the same farm for years and I'm only now getting pretty good at it...I've been thinking about offering my service to others free of charge just for fun and to help others. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

February 7, 2012, 10:38 AM	#20
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	I don't know the total yote populace but U.S. total hunter populace is about 12.5 million. Just think if a third of those hunters were taking a yote a year. I know it's a stretch but the more yotes that are killed the better overall small, med. and large game hunting will be. Guess we could just call it the same as trying to improve our hunting grounds by planting food plots etc. Thinking about it, even more important then food plots. No since in planting a food plot for your game animals if there's a bad yote problem cause the yotes know right where to go when they want to kill something. I got a call from a sheep farmer I know in Western Ohio. He wanted someone to come in and hunt yotes as there are three sheep farms attaching his and in total, they were loosing one to two heads a week in the summer. When a friend and I went to the farm, the sign(scat,prints etc) was just incredible in the pastures. We hunted every weekend starting out during daylight hours then went to night hunting. Killed several but the yotes soon moved to mostly the other three farms. Before it was over, we were hunting all four farms, having a blast and doing a service for the farmers. They even went together and bought a small camper for us to stay in cause the drive was getting to us. Today we go there on a Friday nights and stay till Sunday. Last edited by shortwave; February 7, 2012 at 10:53 AM.

February 7, 2012, 11:00 AM	#21
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	Well a lot of hunters are Hung up on not wanting to kill for no meat. The same issue happens with pigs, many will hunt them till the ice box is full, then it becomes immoral to kill them. If you want to make a dent in any trouble population, you have to be willing to throw some animals in the bone yard. You can get a few guys to do it, but once they get their trophy pelt and a few pictures they will be done with hunting till next vacation. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

February 7, 2012, 11:29 AM	#22
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Simple solution, get the wolves back, no more coyote problem. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

February 7, 2012, 12:06 PM	#23
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	I agree that hunting the coyotes will draw down the numbers, but only if you make it attractive to hunters, either by making the pelts valuable or putting a bounty on them. Casual hunting does little to draw down populations. The way we nearly wiped out grizzly bears, wolves, and cougars 100 years ago was to have professional hunters that would go after them full time. I hunted coyotes for pelts back in the 1980s, when prime pelts would fetch $70-$100 pretty easy. I was a starving student with a shooting hobby, so in order to pay for it I hunted for pelts. Over a 3-year period I harvested over 250 coyotes. When the price of pelts dropped (thanks a lot, tree huggers), it was no longer financially feasible to chase the coyotes, so I found other things to do that paid more. There were a lot of coyotes back then, but nowhere near what I see now. Back then, if a coyote saw you they headed for cover; nowadays if a coyote sees a human he might sit and watch them for a while to see if they drop a half-eaten burger or candy bar. We teach them bad habits, then complain that they are a nuisance. Oh well! __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

February 7, 2012, 12:18 PM	#25
Trip286 Member Join Date: February 6, 2012 Posts: 23	I couldn't help but laugh at the idea of insurance companies trucking them in!! That's great, I wouldn't put it past them, and I'm sure they would if they could for the very reason theorized about (deer have cost my insurance company about 8k in the past five years, with 3 different vehicles) but I'm pretty sure there would be some kind of regulations on transporting predatory species of animals across state lines, of course with requirements for transporting said animals for a purpose, and I very much doubt that they could or would go through all the hassle.