How much to webley .455 caliber guns go for? - Page 2

kodiakbeer · May 12, 2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

I have an unconverted Mk. I (1880s, black powder only); is that one of the early and much rarer ones???

Common as dirt - wanna swap?

Webleymkv · May 13, 2010, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Quote:
The Webley Mk. V was the first Webley specifically designed to use smokeless (cordite) ammo.
Every reference I have ever seen is that the Mark II was the first cordite Webley. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.455_Webley

That article is about the .455 Webley cartridge and its various loadings. The Mk. II cartridge was the first to use cordite powder but it was only to be used in Mk. V, VI, or retrofitted Mk. IV revolvers.

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg91-e.htm

Quote:

Webley revolver, .455, Mark 5. Adopted in 1913. Mark 5 was designed to accept smokeless (cordite) ammunition, and thus, had larger and stronger cylinder, and accordingly redesigned frame.

madcratebuilder · May 13, 2010, 05:19 AM

Quote:

I have an unconverted Mk. I (1880s, black powder only); is that one of the early and much rarer ones???

Not a lot of the MkI's around. Value well be determined by any markings on the revolver. Check the gun auction sites for an idea what they are bringing in the real world.

There's a gunsmith in OK city that restores cut cylinders with a laser cut plate that is silver solder on the back of the cylinder.

I picked up this MkII a few months ago for $200, there are good deals around.

kodiakbeer · May 13, 2010, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Webleymkv: That article is about the .455 Webley cartridge and its various loadings. The Mk. II cartridge was the first to use cordite powder but it was only to be used in Mk. V, VI, or retrofitted Mk. IV revolvers.

Check out this link contained in your link: http://cartridgecollectors.org/455/introto455.htm

They were using cordite rounds from 1894 on in both the Mark I and Mark II cartridges and revolvers. So, ALL the Webley revolvers used cordite. I'll bet they stepped up the pressures in the Mark V.

Webleymkv · May 14, 2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:
Webleymkv: That article is about the .455 Webley cartridge and its various loadings. The Mk. II cartridge was the first to use cordite powder but it was only to be used in Mk. V, VI, or retrofitted Mk. IV revolvers.

Check out this link contained in your link: http://cartridgecollectors.org/455/introto455.htm

They were using cordite rounds from 1894 on in both the Mark I and Mark II cartridges and revolvers. So, ALL the Webley revolvers used cordite. I'll bet they stepped up the pressures in the Mark V.

The Brits discovered early on that there were problems with their original cordite loadings. While Cordite doesn't really achieve much higher pressures than black powder does, its pressure spikes much more quickly and that's where problems come from. The introduction of cordite wasn't without its teething problems particularly when it was used in warmer climates (this was the reason for the lighter "tropical" loadings of many of the British big game rifle cartridges). What was OK, pressure-wise, in England where the temperature rarely rises above the 70's could cause problems in Africa or India where tempuratures routinely break 100 degrees. There is a reason that the Brits were continually trying to strengthen their Webleys and retrofitting older models with strengthened cylinders. While it is possible that your Mk. II may have been retrofitted for smokeless ammo, it would be pretty difficult to tell without an intimate knowledge of Webleys. Also, Unique is not Cordite. Without pressure-testing equipment, you really don't have any way to tell how much pressure your Unique loadings are generating (remember, pressure and velocity don't always necessarily correlate). Personally, I'd only shoot smokeless ammo in a Mk. V or Mk. VI revolver and then only very light loads. An older gun might be able to handle smokeless ammo, but I know it can handle blackpowder or a suitable substitute assuming it's in good working order.

kodiakbeer · May 14, 2010, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Also, Unique is not Cordite. Without pressure-testing equipment, you really don't have any way to tell how much pressure your Unique loadings are generating (remember, pressure and velocity don't always necessarily correlate)

.

Well, Hodgdons lists 12,900 CUP with 5 grains of unique behind a 225 grain slug - black powder pressure. My bullet mold turns out a slug slightly over 200 grains. Somebody here 8 or 10 years ago (who was very experienced with antique firearms), suggested that if I put a wad or filler behind the lighter slug it would reduce the volume and eliminate any possible pressure spikes due to uneven burn.
That's why I use a couple of layers of dental wax to reduce the volume to what it would be if I used the heavier slug. The consensus among a number of experienced reloaders here was that with both a lighter slug AND the reduction in volume, the pressures should be well below the 12,900 listed in the manual.

That's the story on the load... It would have been simpler to just buy another mold with a heavier slug to duplicate the Hodgdon's data, but this supposedly gave me an even safer margin of error, so that's why I went with it.

Webleymkv · May 14, 2010, 04:49 PM

It's your gun, do what you like. Personally though, with an antique top-break revolver (remember, a Webley isn't as strong as a solid-frame gun) I prefer to err on the side of caution.

Wildalaska · May 15, 2010, 02:12 AM

To reiterate the wise words of WebleyMkv, its not the pressure its the spike.

WildbewarepushingonthoseoldergunsAlaska TM

kodiakbeer · May 15, 2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

To reiterate the wise words of WebleyMkv, its not the pressure its the spike.

Yeah, but I'm not shooting cordite.

Wildalaska · May 15, 2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Yeah, but I'm not shooting cordite.

There is a difference in spike between smokeless and black too

WildtimebombAlaska ™

Doug Bowser · December 6, 2010, 03:12 AM

I have been told the conversion to .45 ACP downgrades the revolvers by $100 to 150 on the average. My Webley is a Mark I converted to .45 ACP. I use reloads in this revolver. It has a mint bore and chambers and 85% of the original blue. I shoot 200 gr H&G 130 swc bullets with 3,5 gr Bullseye. It is a blast to shoot and groups around 2.5" at 25 yards off the sandbag. This revolver is Navy marked and has the Crown NP markings on the cylinder. I have been told many of these revolvers had the cylinder replaced to use Smokeless ammo. The action is tight and crisp with a 3.5 pound trigger pull. This revolver shoots to the left, so I will add JB Weld to the left side of the rear sight notch and file the sight notch out to move the center of the rear sight notch to the right. I would not want to alter this old revolver in any way.

Doug Bowser

Eagle0711 · December 6, 2010, 01:38 PM

Forty years ago they were plentyful and one could be had for less than $50.00.

My wifes nephew bought one and he got drunk and threatened some one in a resturant who was flirting with his wife[ she had a large chest and a real looker] . The cops confiscated it, but he did grt it back. He still has it today, and likes it. The wife is now an ex and long gone.

gyvel · December 6, 2010, 04:09 PM

Anyone hazard a guess as to the value of an original Mk VI with a 4" barrel made in the 20's?

Jeff #111 · December 7, 2010, 11:19 AM

gyvel

Quote:

Anyone hazard a guess as to the value of an original Mk VI with a 4" barrel made in the 20's?

I'd like to know that as well. I have a Mk VI that was made by Enfield in 1925. I paid $550 for it in an auction a few years ago. I wanted it and got in a bidding war with a dealer. Never regretted it.

Wildalaska · December 7, 2010, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Anyone hazard a guess as to the value of an original Mk VI with a 4" barrel made in the 20's?

gyvel · December 7, 2010, 07:32 PM

Quote:

What caliber?

It's still in .455.

Rifleman1776 · December 7, 2010, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Anyone hazard a guess as to the value of an original Mk VI with a 4" barrel made in the 20's?

Don't know about that or current prices.
But, I remember, as a kid they were advertised in comic books for about $15.00 and anyone could buy them mail order.

Edit: must add, that was in the 1940s.

Wildalaska · December 7, 2010, 11:59 PM

Quote:

It's still in .455.

gyvel · December 8, 2010, 12:56 AM

Quote:

A 4 Inch Enfield Mark VI .455? Got pics?

No, I presently don't have a working camera, but you can see pics of it featured in an article that appeared sometime in the mid 1980's in the American Rifleman. I loaned it to Bill Chamberlain who photographed it and wrote a feature article about the 4" W&S MK VI's that were made in the early 20's for the Irish government. As best as I can figure, they used barrels possibly left over from the Mk IV's, but it is numbered to the gun. I think Bill did a fair bit of research on the gun since he collaborated with Taylorson on many articles.

The guns actually came into the country about the same time as the first W&S Mk IV .38's with the Singapore Police Forces markings and crossbolt safety.

Edit: It's a Webley & Scott, not an Enfield. (As far as I know, the Enfield Mk VI's were only in 6" anyway.)

Shaleyone · June 7, 2012, 02:46 PM

Does anyone know what the value of a Mark III is? The Collectors Firearms site doesn't have anything...and it hasn't been mentioned here that I have found.

buckhorn · June 7, 2012, 04:47 PM

I have an original .455 round marked COLT .455, as Colt did chamber the peacemaker for Webley .455. But, their ammo renamed it COLT .455. It will chamber in any of my .45 colt guns, But as someone already meantioned, the rim is at least half as wide as .45 colt ammo. I'm not ever going to try firing it, but it slides right in and is about as long as a .45 Schofield round. I think Fioochi makes a .455 round. One thing that always confused me - the webley .476 and the webley .455 were interchangable. what's the deal with that? I know the British had different methods of measuring their rounds.

juancadiz · December 19, 2013, 01:55 PM

Hi, been reading all the posts about the Webley. All the photos I see online have brown grips. Mine look the same as far as the pattern, but they are yellow...off white...ivory colored. Still that plastic type; not real ivory. Just that color. Can anyone give me an idea of why this is?
Also, mine is 1917 and has not been converted to the .45 ACP

December 6, 2010, 03:12 AM	#36
Doug Bowser Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2005 Posts: 163	I have a Webley Mark I I have been told the conversion to .45 ACP downgrades the revolvers by $100 to 150 on the average. My Webley is a Mark I converted to .45 ACP. I use reloads in this revolver. It has a mint bore and chambers and 85% of the original blue. I shoot 200 gr H&G 130 swc bullets with 3,5 gr Bullseye. It is a blast to shoot and groups around 2.5" at 25 yards off the sandbag. This revolver is Navy marked and has the Crown NP markings on the cylinder. I have been told many of these revolvers had the cylinder replaced to use Smokeless ammo. The action is tight and crisp with a 3.5 pound trigger pull. This revolver shoots to the left, so I will add JB Weld to the left side of the rear sight notch and file the sight notch out to move the center of the rear sight notch to the right. I would not want to alter this old revolver in any way. Doug Bowser

June 7, 2012, 02:46 PM	#45
Shaleyone Junior Member Join Date: June 7, 2012 Posts: 1	Mark III Does anyone know what the value of a Mark III is? The Collectors Firearms site doesn't have anything...and it hasn't been mentioned here that I have found.

June 7, 2012, 04:47 PM	#46
buckhorn Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2012 Location: mid michigan Posts: 196	Webley .455 I have an original .455 round marked COLT .455, as Colt did chamber the peacemaker for Webley .455. But, their ammo renamed it COLT .455. It will chamber in any of my .45 colt guns, But as someone already meantioned, the rim is at least half as wide as .45 colt ammo. I'm not ever going to try firing it, but it slides right in and is about as long as a .45 Schofield round. I think Fioochi makes a .455 round. One thing that always confused me - the webley .476 and the webley .455 were interchangable. what's the deal with that? I know the British had different methods of measuring their rounds.

December 19, 2013, 01:55 PM	#47
juancadiz Junior Member Join Date: December 17, 2013 Posts: 2	Wrong color grips on Webley .455 Mark VI Hi, been reading all the posts about the Webley. All the photos I see online have brown grips. Mine look the same as far as the pattern, but they are yellow...off white...ivory colored. Still that plastic type; not real ivory. Just that color. Can anyone give me an idea of why this is? Also, mine is 1917 and has not been converted to the .45 ACP

May 14, 2010, 04:49 PM	#32
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	It's your gun, do what you like. Personally though, with an antique top-break revolver (remember, a Webley isn't as strong as a solid-frame gun) I prefer to err on the side of caution.

May 15, 2010, 02:12 AM	#33
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	To reiterate the wise words of WebleyMkv, its not the pressure its the spike. WildbewarepushingonthoseoldergunsAlaska TM

December 6, 2010, 01:38 PM	#37
Eagle0711 Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2010 Posts: 782	Forty years ago they were plentyful and one could be had for less than $50.00. My wifes nephew bought one and he got drunk and threatened some one in a resturant who was flirting with his wife[ she had a large chest and a real looker] . The cops confiscated it, but he did grt it back. He still has it today, and likes it. The wife is now an ex and long gone.

December 6, 2010, 04:09 PM	#38
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Anyone hazard a guess as to the value of an original Mk VI with a 4" barrel made in the 20's?