Was Hatcher wrong?

**4V50 Gary** · April 15, 1999, 08:37 PM

While rereading Hatcher's, "Book of the Garand," an entry was somewhat disconcerting. On Page 244, Paragraph 6 you'll find:

"Eighteen telescope-sighted Garands came ashore with the 5th Marine Regiment when it landed at Guadalcanal on August 7, 1942. These were at a premium, as they were most useful for the snipers. Jap swimming holes and river crossings were ideal spots to watch, from any point not over 600 to 700 yards away. The Japs could not believe that a kill at 700 yards was anything but accidental, so that the same spot could profitably be watched three or more times a week. One can and may become accustomed to close misses, but I have yet to find a soldier or anyone else who can get used to hits."

This statement was given to Maj. Gen. J. Hatcher by Col. Whaling, USMC.

I don't find any documents to support that scope sighted Garands were available in 1942; yet alone eighteen of them. Was Hatcher, or in this case, Col. Whaling wrong?

Harley Nolden · April 15, 1999, 11:29 PM

My records indicate that the first record of a Sniper M-1Garand, was called the M1E7. It had a Griffin & Howe scope mount and an M73, Lyman Alaskan, or M73B1 (weaver 330)scope. A removable leather cheek piece was fitted to the stock. It was stanardized in June of 1944. A flash hider was adopted in Jan. of 1945.

Later on the M1-D Sniper rifle was designed, however according to my records it was the same as the M1E7 but the sighting system was the M73 Lyman telescope with cross hairs reticle and rubber eyepiece. The scope system was call the M81. When equipped with tapered post retcile and rubber eye peice, it is designated as the M82. A later telescope used wth the M1C & D is the M84

If my memory serves. Before the M-1 Garand Sniper system the M1903A4 system was used. This system was adapted in December of 1942. This being the case, I would suspect that the Springfield 03A4 was @ Guadalcanal and not the M-1DGarand. In fact I know for a fact that the 03A4 was used in Korea and in some parts of RVN. In the era of the 03A4 and the M1D the 03 was a far superior sniper system than the Garand. Using National Match (*'d) barrels and specific glass bedding, I was taught how to glass bed by the man who designed the glass bedding system for the 03A4, longer range and more accurate shots could be accomplished.

HJN

[This message has been edited by Harley Nolden (edited April 16, 1999).]

Walt Welch · April 18, 1999, 11:55 PM

You gentlemen may do well to peruse the article in the American Rifleman 2 months or so ago, which detailed the history of sniper Garands. Walt

**4V50 Gary** · April 25, 1999, 04:59 PM

Thanks Walt. I've read the article and have Canfield's newest book. However, I'm also aware of several prototypes which were developed prior to the adoption of the M1C. I was wondering if it was possible that a batch of prototypes were field tested prior to settling on the M1C design.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

April 15, 1999, 08:37 PM	#1
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	While rereading Hatcher's, "Book of the Garand," an entry was somewhat disconcerting. On Page 244, Paragraph 6 you'll find: "Eighteen telescope-sighted Garands came ashore with the 5th Marine Regiment when it landed at Guadalcanal on August 7, 1942. These were at a premium, as they were most useful for the snipers. Jap swimming holes and river crossings were ideal spots to watch, from any point not over 600 to 700 yards away. The Japs could not believe that a kill at 700 yards was anything but accidental, so that the same spot could profitably be watched three or more times a week. One can and may become accustomed to close misses, but I have yet to find a soldier or anyone else who can get used to hits." This statement was given to Maj. Gen. J. Hatcher by Col. Whaling, USMC. I don't find any documents to support that scope sighted Garands were available in 1942; yet alone eighteen of them. Was Hatcher, or in this case, Col. Whaling wrong?

April 15, 1999, 11:29 PM	#2
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	My records indicate that the first record of a Sniper M-1Garand, was called the M1E7. It had a Griffin & Howe scope mount and an M73, Lyman Alaskan, or M73B1 (weaver 330)scope. A removable leather cheek piece was fitted to the stock. It was stanardized in June of 1944. A flash hider was adopted in Jan. of 1945. Later on the M1-D Sniper rifle was designed, however according to my records it was the same as the M1E7 but the sighting system was the M73 Lyman telescope with cross hairs reticle and rubber eyepiece. The scope system was call the M81. When equipped with tapered post retcile and rubber eye peice, it is designated as the M82. A later telescope used wth the M1C & D is the M84 If my memory serves. Before the M-1 Garand Sniper system the M1903A4 system was used. This system was adapted in December of 1942. This being the case, I would suspect that the Springfield 03A4 was @ Guadalcanal and not the M-1DGarand. In fact I know for a fact that the 03A4 was used in Korea and in some parts of RVN. In the era of the 03A4 and the M1D the 03 was a far superior sniper system than the Garand. Using National Match (*'d) barrels and specific glass bedding, I was taught how to glass bed by the man who designed the glass bedding system for the 03A4, longer range and more accurate shots could be accomplished. HJN [This message has been edited by Harley Nolden (edited April 16, 1999).]

April 18, 1999, 11:55 PM	#3
Walt Welch Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 1998 Location: Alamo, CA Posts: 424	You gentlemen may do well to peruse the article in the American Rifleman 2 months or so ago, which detailed the history of sniper Garands. Walt

April 25, 1999, 04:59 PM	#4
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	Thanks Walt. I've read the article and have Canfield's newest book. However, I'm also aware of several prototypes which were developed prior to the adoption of the M1C. I was wondering if it was possible that a batch of prototypes were field tested prior to settling on the M1C design.